What was Buffy's biggest mistake??

[gumgnome]

^^You mean leaving him, yeah that was stupid. Long live Riley!

Never read this thread before now, just gonna try to revive the "should she kill Faith?" topic 'cos its interesting. Just adding that while it would be killing a human being, Faith is a slayer off the rails so no-one is going to be able to deal with her except Buffy. So Buffy can:
1) Let her get on with it - hardly an option.
2) Try to reason with Faith, bring her back to the goodies - not Buffy's strongest asset and a bit late in the game by this point in Season 3.
3) Try to immobolise Faith and keep her imprisoned somewhere - immensely time-consuming and difficult, but not beyond the realm of possibility.
4) Kill her
I don't think Buffy has that many options, and do not agree with the parallel to Warren. As twisted as Warren was, he was still just a normal guy who could have been dealt with by usual human judicial channels. An uncooperative Faith (as we are dealing with at the end of Season 3) is not the same and is solely Buffy's responsibility.

[zorthrip]

Jun 6, 2009 7:52:39 GMT -5 gumgnome said:

^^You mean leaving him, yeah that was stupid. Long live Riley!

She didn't go anywhere. He left. I, however, meant having anything to do with him was her mistake.

[diabeticdude202]

Hmm....Buffy's biggest mistake was pairing Anya with Andrew in the final episode. I don't mean to say that Anya died coz of Buffy, just that her overall plan was stupid thus leading to the death of Anya!

Plan Setting: Xander + Dawn - Giles + Robin - Anya + Andrew.
Plan Setting more Appropriate: Xander + Dawn - Anya + Giles - Andrew + Robin.

Xander and Dawn had to pair together because they are practically both at the sam skill level as each other. Working with someone else would end up with them dead. Plus, Xander loves Dawn deep down (not romantically) and will protect her till death. Anya had to go with Giles because he was the best swordsman in the world. Anya is pretty darn good herself but she is quite (don't crucify me) clueless as to what's going on in the fight. I mean, she was killed from behind, cheap shot, but still she had a half smile ... then a second later...dead. Robin with Andrew seems fitting. But I think one of them would have died.

So Buffy's big mistake was her plan for the finale!

[Skytteflickan88]

I kinda agree with you. Bad planning. Why pair Giles & Robin, the two most experienced fighters together?

Unless it was because that particular spot would be hit hardest, and needed the best fighters, it was a bad idea.

Spread the talent.

I'm not sure if the other pairings were good either. Anya-ex-demon-who-might-not-be-that-skilled-in-fighting-because-she-mostly-did-wishes and Andrew-the nerd? And Xander-who-has-clocked-a-lot-of-filed-time and Dawn-who's-been-trained-by-a-slayer?

Of course, putting Xander & Anya together would have been worse. Xander would have been extra worried and maybe horny while fighting. Same for Anya. Bad set up for a fight.

Still, giving Andrew to Anya was kinda a death sentence.

[EvanCooper93]

Spike.

[Skeptic]

Anya and Andrew together? Yes, that was what she needed to do. Remember, she was trying to win a major battle and possibly the war. She needed all of her best fighters, all together. Anya and Andrew, sadly, were not good. You are only as strong as your weakest team member. So putting A&A together, apart from the others, was strategy.

Don't believe me? Look at Season Eight Buffy. She'd make the same decision again if need be. She's been slowly evolving to that 'greater good' way of thinking even while the show was airing.

Anyway, my take on Buffy's greatest mistakes:

1. Not killing Angelus; ignoring her duty and not believing what Angelus truly was.

2. Not reaching out harder to Faith, or having Giles help her intervene, to stop what was clearly a train wreck in progress, before everything started to really fall apart with them. Simply washing her hands of it/ignoring it and hoping it'll go away, was typical Buffy, though.

3. Having sex with Spike. But I get that they were needing to show her going to, and enjoying being in, a dark place.

4. Sleeping with Satsu. (Doh!) Because Satsu's a subordinate; Buffy's the general, who slept with an officer who takes her orders. No matter how much she wanted it, she should've said no. (She should've just fired Satsu THEN got with the boogie. )

Wow. Buffy's really a great decision maker when it comes to personal relationships.

[Skytteflickan88]

UnKle, sadly enough, you're probably right about the Andrew/Anya pairing.

[Just Willow]

sleeping with Spike, by far the worst thing ever.

and the part where she thinks she's better than everyone else. Anya's speech in Empty Places was so accurate.

[Skytteflickan88]

You know, I'm not sure that sleeping with Spike was such a bad idea.

She might just have needed to hit rock bottom bounce back up. I wouldn't recommend a depressed girl to sleep with a guy she loathes, but if Buffy hadn't gotten together a Spike, she might have hit rock bottom a lot later, and her spirits would have been too low. Atleast in season 6 she still had some spirit, even at her worst, but if she would have had more time to get depressed, who knows?

In Spike, she got someone to hate and get sexual release with. And punch on a regular basis.

So even tough it was a misstake, and it might have gone horribly wrong if Riley hadn't made her realize what she was doing had to end, it might have turned out for the worse if she hadn't slept with him.

Just a thought.

[ambersknight]

My personal opinion is that the worst thing Buffy ever did was forigve Spike for attempting to rape her. Sent out the entirely wrong message to young women. it seemed to be saying "Attempted rape is okay if the guy is hot enough!" Never sat right with me.

[Just Willow]

Jun 6, 2009 17:32:18 GMT -5 @ambersknight said:

My personal opinion is that the worst thing Buffy ever did was forigve Spike for attempting to rape her. Sent out the entirely wrong message to young women. it seemed to be saying "Attempted rape is okay if the guy is hot enough!" Never sat right with me.

Ambersknight, this is the first thing i've ever agreed 100% on with you! in my mind, rape is rape, no matter what.

Also, just read the rest of the thread, the Anya/Andrew in Chosen was a mistake.

[Skytteflickan88]

Thank God, other people who thought the rape was taken too lightly.

I get that Spike getting a soul as a sort of "apology" works, but sometimes you need to send the right message. Even tough we see that Buffy is very aware of what he did(the flashbacks and twitchy-ness) in Beneath You, we needed something more.

Not that souled Spike could be blamed, but a scene with him and Buffy actually talking about it, or Buffy doing more than being uncomfortable in Beneath You would have been nice.

EDIT- It's not that it was dealt with unrealisticly, I can see a real girl act they way Buffy did, but I don't know, I guess I wanted the writers to make a statement.

That rape is a bad thing was brought up in Dead Things tough, so we can't really wave our fingers to the writers.

[Rebecca]

I agree that the rape thing got swept to the wayside in S7, but I don't agree that it was a mistake for Buffy to forgive Spike. The next time she saw him, before she knew he got a soul, I completely agree we should have seen a big sign that she was not allowing him in her life, that she hated him, etc. That would have made a huge contrast for when she did realize he had a soul, and forgave him, even defended him to her closest friends.

Forgiving him after the soul transplant was the right way to go, as I view it much the same as Angelus and Angel being two separate entities, sharing the same body. So too is Spike pre-S7 and ensouled Spike. Not forgiving Spike after Buffy found out he had a soul would be like blaming Angel for everything he did as Angelus, which I completely do NOT do.

[Mathieu]

Jun 6, 2009 10:12:00 GMT -5 Skytteflickan88 said:

I kinda agree with you. Bad planning. Why pair Giles & Robin, the two most experienced fighters together?

Unless it was because that particular spot would be hit hardest, and needed the best fighters, it was a bad idea.

Spread the talent.

I'm not sure if the other pairings were good either. Anya-ex-demon-who-might-not-be-that-skilled-in-fighting-because-she-mostly-did-wishes and Andrew-the nerd? And Xander-who-has-clocked-a-lot-of-filed-time and Dawn-who's-been-trained-by-a-slayer?

Of course, putting Xander & Anya together would have been worse. Xander would have been extra worried and maybe horny while fighting. Same for Anya. Bad set up for a fight.

Still, giving Andrew to Anya was kinda a death sentence.

You really think Xander would have had time to be horny while fighting for his life and the life of others? He might have been distracted as he would have done anything he could to keep Anya safe, but horny? No way. I don't think you can possibly get turned on when a dozen ubervamps are coming right at you.

[antoniofjm]

1.Horrible planning in Chosen.

2.She should of tried harder to help Faith.

3.Forgiving Spike so early.

4.Not trusting Giles.

And probably more.

[Just Willow]

Jun 6, 2009 19:14:23 GMT -5 antoniofjm said:

1.Horrible planning in Chosen.

2.She should of tried harder to help Faith.

3.Forgiving Spike so early.

4.Not trusting Giles.

And probably more.

that's pretty accurate so far. her top four big mistakes.

[Iceeh★]

Getting rid of Sweet. Season 6 would have been so much more epic if it was all done in song and dance.

[antoniofjm]

Could another mistake be her not trusting Angel in S5 of AtS?

[Just Willow]

Jun 6, 2009 21:50:16 GMT -5 antoniofjm said:

Could another mistake be her not trusting Angel in S5 of AtS?

with the rogue Slayer? yeah, that bugged me that they were all like 'you work for an evil corporation now! we don't trust you!'

[urnofosiris]

I have to say, in my personal opinion, one of the biggest mistakes Buffy made, was Riley.
Honestly. Nothing good happened with them.
He was just like.. a filler boyfriend.
But, that's just my thoughts.
Also, not killing Spike SO much sooner, before she became, y'know, 'attached' to him, or what have you.

I thought the pairings were okay, because some had to die, otherwise it would have looked like the supposed biggest fight ever was easy.
But, I don't know.

Anya and Andrew, does equal death sentence..

Ugh, forgiving Spike after he attempted to rape her, makes me sick.
That is the BIGGEST mistake she made. My, my.

Okay, I think I'm done.. Heh. Got a little ranty.