mandikaye
Potential Slayer
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Post by mandikaye on Jan 26, 2008 0:29:18 GMT -5
I think I'm resisting because in my mind, Angel being human = Angel being hella easier to kill. Especially in the hell dimension that is now LA. I'm not seeing what Angel can contribute as a human. Right now, the only human on his team is Connor, but he's an odd case. And even still, has needed Angel to get him out of trouble on occasion. If Angel can't do that because he's human... what's going to happen?
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Post by KingofCretins on Jan 26, 2008 0:32:24 GMT -5
What did Wes or Gunn contribute? What does Xander contribute? Or Wood, or Anya?
I really hope he's human if only because it at last throws out the idea that he's a hero because he's a vampire, and that his quest for redemption stops because he's human.
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mandikaye
Potential Slayer
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Post by mandikaye on Jan 26, 2008 0:37:20 GMT -5
Oh I'm not questioning Angel's hero-ness. He's definitely a champion, vamp or not. I just want him to have the superhuman strength he needs to actually accomplish what he's trying to do. *Especially* since LA is now in a hell dimension. I want Angel to become human when he can actually enjoy it. When he can kick back and have that "normal" life. But we all know that will *never* happen.
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Post by KingofCretins on Jan 26, 2008 0:39:40 GMT -5
Yeah, there's probably something you should know about this Josh Weston guy that made the series... Really, when you phrase it that way, isn't this the *only* way they could have ever actually done the Shanshu?
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mandikaye
Potential Slayer
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Post by mandikaye on Jan 26, 2008 0:49:44 GMT -5
Yeah I know... no one will ever be happy on the show. I mean... in the Buffyverse, since there is no "show" anymore.
I've only been through the Angel series once... I've seen some episodes twice, but most only once. So I'm not clear on Shanshu. What I remember is that he was eventually supposed to earn his humanity through his good works, right?
So, I don't see how this can be a manifestation of shanshu (ignoring the fact that he signed it away). TPTB wouldn't be so cruel as to give it to him when he's stuck in a hell dimension with the rest of LA.
I don't know what it is, but I'm not convinced that it's simple case of Angel having caught humanity.
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Post by KingofCretins on Jan 26, 2008 0:55:21 GMT -5
I went immediately and intuitively to the Shanshu when I read the issue and haven't wavered.
When, exactly, did the Powers ever tell Angel it would be a reward? What oracle or representative? That's the other punchline of it -- it never was a reward. It was just this neutral, factual event, like predicting rain. Vampire with a soul plays a role in the apocalypse, defeats many demons and fiends, becomes human. Grazi, prego, kiss kiss?
The most interesting direction they could have gone with Angel turning human is having him deal with the fact that it is *not* a reward, that he has *not* crossed a finish line. It's all very good for him to lecture Faith about that in "Orpheus", but now he has to live it. And literally. Their fight... is *never* done.
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balesthebloody
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Angel's gettin' some! Good on you mate!"[Mo0:0]
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Post by balesthebloody on Jan 26, 2008 1:02:18 GMT -5
I think that Angel is something more than human but weaker than a vampire. I think that he could be a Child of The Senior Partners now. It would make sense. By drinking Hamilton's blood it could have made him ascend to a new state of being.
Think about it. If he was human the fight with Illyria would have killed him. He would have lost WAY too much blood. This, I think, shows that he has something else going on.
I think that what ever it is the Senior Partners are behind it.
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mandikaye
Potential Slayer
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Post by mandikaye on Jan 26, 2008 1:06:00 GMT -5
That's a good point that I hadn't thought of. I've always thought of it as a reward because it's something he wanted.
But why now? What did he do to earn it? He didn't save LA from going to hell. All of his "crew" are, for all intents and purposes, dead or gone. Although I guess that goes back to it not being a reward.
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juniorwatcher
Potential Slayer
There's that word again, what you are, how you'll die...alone. - The First[Mo0:0]
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Post by juniorwatcher on Jan 26, 2008 2:47:47 GMT -5
All I know is, is that I hate the issues coming out once every month because there's SO MUCH ANXIETY BUILT Up after learning this HUGE revelation.
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Slayer489
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Why do I feel like this? Why do I let Spike do those things to me?" - Buffy 'Dead Things'[Mo0:0]
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Post by Slayer489 on Jan 26, 2008 7:18:30 GMT -5
I think that Angel is something more than human but weaker than a vampire. I think that he could be a Child of The Senior Partners now. It would make sense. By drinking Hamilton's blood it could have made him ascend to a new state of being. Think about it. If he was human the fight with Illyria would have killed him. He would have lost WAY too much blood. This, I think, shows that he has something else going on. I think that what ever it is the Senior Partners are behind it. I LOVE your theory of Angel being a Child to the Senior Partners because he drank Hamilton's blood! Great theory!
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Post by SlayerLV on Jan 27, 2008 2:11:06 GMT -5
Did anyone ever think that Angel might not even be human? All he says is that he is no longer a vampire, that doesn't automatically mean he's "human" so to say. Other than that great issue I love that Connor, Spike and Illyria are working together and that Illyria is developing emotions.
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Post by CowboyGuy on Jan 27, 2008 2:27:13 GMT -5
Did anyone ever think that Angel might not even be human? All he says is that he is no longer a vampire, that doesn't automatically mean he's "human" so to say. Other than that great issue I love that Connor, Spike and Illyria are working together and that Illyria is developing emotions. He did drink Hamilton's blood. Maybe that did something to him, like super-powered him up? So he is like a super-human? Or maybe he is a child of the Senior Partners now?
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Post by KingofCretins on Jan 27, 2008 11:23:32 GMT -5
Nope, he's not. Brian Lynch covered in an earlier podcast that he does not have any continuing benefit from drinking Hamilton's blood. As it turned out, that's because he's human now
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balesthebloody
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Angel's gettin' some! Good on you mate!"[Mo0:0]
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Post by balesthebloody on Jan 27, 2008 13:01:47 GMT -5
Nope, he's not. Brian Lynch covered in an earlier podcast that he does not have any continuing benefit from drinking Hamilton's blood. As it turned out, that's because he's human now So you are saying that you could survive having the hell beat out of you by a demon from the Primordium Age, being stabbed in the palms by multiple kitchen knives, and have an open wound in your side, which you are bleeding profusely, and not die? No human could survive that....he has to be something more.
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Post by sagewoman on Jan 27, 2008 14:29:37 GMT -5
Nope, he's not. Brian Lynch covered in an earlier podcast that he does not have any continuing benefit from drinking Hamilton's blood. As it turned out, that's because he's human now So you are saying that you could survive having the hell beat out of you by a demon from the Primordium Age, being stabbed in the palms by multiple kitchen knives, and have an open wound in your side, which you are bleeding profusely, and not die? No human could survive that....he has to be something more. Listen again to the podcast - Brian says that Angel is "no longer a vampire" he does NOT say he is "human" that is an asssumption that all kinds of people are jumping to. Also he did not confirm that Illyria is causing the time warp - just because she is in the panel with Angel doesn't mean she is the cause.
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Post by KingofCretins on Jan 27, 2008 14:35:05 GMT -5
Moments later, though, when answering the question about the fake gameface panel, Brian and Jordy tacitly confirm that he's human -- they only asked Franco to draw it *because* someone had guessed he was human, and they needed to draw attention from that. They also said whoever had 'called it' was 'pretty smart'.
So, if that's not supposed to be confirmation, Brian will need to backpedal from that part of the podcast.
Also, though... the short version is, yes, I do think he'd be walking around. We have seen an almost endless stream of examples of human beings, seriously wounded, still walking and talking. That's hardly new in genre fiction.
He'll get back to the office and grab the healing bug things and whatever else they've got at W&H and start patching his human self up.
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Post by sagewoman on Jan 27, 2008 14:58:39 GMT -5
Here is another aspect of the story I've looked at: 1. Wesley's glasses are reflective - even though he is a ghost. Issue 2 page 1.
2. So far, the only vampire I have seen in vamp mode is Gunn. His people are not vampires - they didn't turn and eat the babes and he is always in human face when he is with his gang. Even Spike has not vampred out - yes, it almost looks like it when Angel punches him - but it is not clear. Angry Angel's forehead creases up when he fights. So, is Spike still a vampire? In the conversation that Wesley and Angel have about the stake: Angel: "I don't even know why I carry one with me. Haven't had to use one for months. Remember when vampires were our biggest problem?" Wesley: "Only when you went bad." I believe that they are referring to the time before Hell in LA - and Wesley's comment means that the only time vampires were a big problem was when Angel was Angelus, otherwise they were pretty easy to deal with.
So, I'm thinking that since Gunn was killed and sired during the battle - he would have not arose until the next day (there is always a day later rising) when they were in HelLA and may in fact be the only vampire around.
3. The other Lords think Illyria is the Lord of Beverly Hills - when they say BH is not represented, they mean not at the meeting. They then go on to say that the should bring "her" down, believing that she killed KR'PH (who Gunn actually killed and staged it to look like Illyria with the sanskrit writing). Since Spike is her "pet', he cannot be the Lord. That's my interpretation for now.
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Post by nottfadeaway on Jan 27, 2008 16:02:14 GMT -5
I don't think Angel is a "child of the senior partners" or anything like that. If he were, he would have easily been able to take down Illyria and he wouldn't even have a problem taking down all the lords; remember how incredibly strong Hamilton was!?
I think we have to remember that Angel "reeks of magic." Maybe he has some kind of protection or something like that that is helping him stay alive from these "normally mortal" wounds.
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BuffyFanOne
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Post by BuffyFanOne on Jan 31, 2008 1:38:10 GMT -5
Keep your eyes pealed to the Slayaliveblog for a review of this issue on Monday! Yeah...so....Scratch that. My comic store was closed on Monday for the owners Birthday. What are the chances!? Monday is my only day off all week and the store is closed on Sunday so unless I can get there this Saturday, the review will have to wait until next Monday! Hold tight. It is coming soon!
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Post by twilight on Feb 2, 2008 15:26:29 GMT -5
Okay, my questions may be stupid, but I'd really appreciate if someone could (try to) answer them...
1. Why did Illyria attack Angel in the first place? Just because of the fact that he sent LA to Hell? Or was it all about Spike? I didn't get that part since the first pages were really confusing... I would have never imagined Angel and Illyria fighting.
2. Do we know what exactly happened to LA? I mean, did the Senior Partners send the gang to another dimension or does it only affect LA just like blotting out the sun in season 4? If so, shouldn't Buffy and the other slayers or the military help the gang and save people?
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