Smashed
Junior Vampire Slayer
[Mo0:3]
Posts: 908
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Post by Smashed on Jun 18, 2008 21:09:39 GMT -5
Brian!
WHERE IS NINA?!
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kimtaro
Ensouled Vampire
Everybody's Buttmonkey
Crime tastes funny[Mo0:10]
Posts: 1,087
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Post by kimtaro on Jun 18, 2008 21:20:25 GMT -5
I dunno...she wasn't mentioned by name, but that's just the feeling I got...
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Post by KingofCretins on Jun 18, 2008 21:25:53 GMT -5
Wow, I double-checked, and Nina *was* in the fight in Chapter 5. So, yeah, oversight-ish -- but it doesn't lose integrity, since there's nothing in Chapter 9 to establish she *isn't* there suddenly, just that she didn't have anything particularly interesting to say in that issue. She could be shown hanging out in the Hyperion lobby in Chapter 10 without any inconsistency.
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iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:10]
Posts: 684
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Post by iloveromy on Jun 18, 2008 21:26:39 GMT -5
bizarre.
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Post by SlayerLV on Jun 18, 2008 22:29:42 GMT -5
I thought it was a good issue. I wasn't very impressed by the art though, sometimes I could hardly tell if it was Angel or not and Fred's likeness wasn't that great but that's all I'm going to say about that subject. I love the confirmation of Connor and Gwen's relationship. And the return of the Hyperion was awesome!! It's kinda interesting that Wesley kept his "shell" and tried to contact the higher powers (obviously Cordy). I also honestly don't want Fred to be totally back I want Illyria and maybe then they can kinda lay Fred's soul to final rest.
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
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Post by Joe on Jun 19, 2008 7:20:25 GMT -5
I get it today!!!! Yay, I'm excited......
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cheryl
Novice Witch
[Mo0:37]
Posts: 246
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Post by cheryl on Jun 19, 2008 8:19:30 GMT -5
This series just gets better and better. I loved everything about it.
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Post by buffyfan21 on Jun 19, 2008 12:22:08 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this issue. Thought it was very well written, and the artwork just gets better and better, imo. I really loved seeing the interaction between Angel and Connor. Nice to see that they are finally mending fences. It was also great to see more of Lorne this issue. I was so sad when he walked away at the end of NFA, so it's great to see him back with the gang in a sense. All of the dialouge this issue was spot on (as usual) and I could totally here each characters' voice clearly my head, (not as crazy as it sounds, lol) especially Lorne's. This issue did have a few moments that made me chuckle and some that made me sad. Loved seeing the appearance of the "Loan Shark" from Buffy (hasn't he made an appearance before?). Nice touch. There were a few things this issue I was/am a little confused about, (there usually is a little something like that with every issue, sometimes it can be hard to follow, lol) but overall, it was another superb issue, as always.
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Whedon Fan
Ensouled Vampire
Joss Is Boss
Banner & Avatar Made By CBG[Mo0:3][Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,312
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Post by Whedon Fan on Jun 19, 2008 14:49:08 GMT -5
Pretty good issue. Not my favourite but it was still a good read. I love that Gwen and Connor are together...that bit I definatley loved, Angel will be able to understand what Connor is going through seen as he went through it all with Buffy. I love that the Hyperion is back, just seeing the stupid couch comfy cusion thing that was ALWAYS in the middle of the floor was great to see it again. The front covers were fantastic, I got both. I didn't really miss Nina in this issue, to be honest I'd rather if she wasn't in it at all. She seems pretty use less and I can guarntee she will be killed off before the end of After The Fall...if not sooner as Brian Lynch guarnteed that "death was coming" in the next issue. I love that Gunn is sort of helping to get of of Hell....the whole "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing...Or as Lilah put it in season 4 "The enemy of my enemy can kiss my ass too"!! I loved Lilah, Great to see that Wes and ANgel kept Wesley's body/shell. So I'm guessing Wes just need to be put into the body and there we go he should be okay...hopefully. Another good issue and as much as I did love First Night I'm glad it's over and we can now get back to the usual story arc. First Night explained A LOT of things (for me anyway I know many people didn't like it). Can't wait for issue 10. The cover is my favourite one so far, HELL IS FREEZING OVER!!
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
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Post by Joe on Jun 19, 2008 19:33:36 GMT -5
Ok so I just read it.. and it's not as great as I thought it was going be it's still a very good issue. I love the return to the Hyperion and the mention of Cordelia... I also love Gwen/Connor and the absence of Nina . On to Art: I like Urru much better than I do Runge.. But Runge is still acceptable for this series. I didn't quite follow how Hagan's Shaft worked... and how Angel tricked the lords. Weren't the shaft's meant to kill the user... So what were the lords doing?
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jun 19, 2008 22:14:47 GMT -5
I mentioned this in the Scott Allie thread, before it all went to hell, but while it's really cool that some of the people involved in creating these two series actually visit the boards here and read our comments, it can be kind of stifling, too, because (and I don't know if this is the case with anyone else, but it is for me) I find myself filtering my comments somewhat and not saying what I really feel if there's something that I just flat-out don't like. But I can't do that in this case, because there's just too much to b#$%h about (fortunately, almost none of it has anything to do with anything that's Brian's fault). This was the first issue of S8 or AtF that I was just completely disappointed by, and almost wanted to pack it up and send it to IDW with a note that says "Please fix this, and then send it back to me." The art... SUCKS!Wow, that wasn't very constructive, was it? Okay, take two: Runge's likenesses are off in most cases (sometimes way off), but really, Urru's likenesses weren't exactly spot-on all the time, either, and I still loved his stuff, so between the cover previews for #12 and 13, and Brian's assurances about how good Runge's work in #10 and 11 is, I'm willing to give him a pass on this one. The real problem here is with the new colorist. I know some people criticized the original guy, but looking back at the first five issues, each panel was so rich and vibrant and exciting. This issue, the exact opposite: bland, dull, and boring. Bordering on monochromatic, even. It was like a book made from a bunch of old-fashioned sepia-tone photos, with just a dash of color thrown in here or there. The next-to-last panel where Frillyria screams "No!!!", is that Fred or Illyria? I assume Illyria, because it's her in the rest of the scene, but the coloring is much more suggestive of Fred. Runge can become just as good as Brian promises, but if the coloring doesn't improve--a LOT--then there's going to continue to be major problems with the art for the rest of the series. There were some other gripes I had about this issue, too, and if the art had been of the quality from the first five issues, I probably wouldn't have even really noticed them that much, but since the crappy art turned me against the issue almost from the first page, those problems stood out more and ended up really frustrating me: The layout of the dialogue balloons could have been better, especially on the page at the mall(?) where the Loan Shark's real name was revealed. Maybe people who read a lot of comics didn't have any problem, but I was confused what order I was supposed to read them in. I hadn't read comics for years until S8 and AtF started, and I'm sure a lot of other fans of the shows are also picking up comics for the first time, and there should be some consideration of that with regards to the layout of the panels and dialogue balloons, to try to make them a little easier to follow for those of us who are relative comic book newbies. And what's with the continuing spelling mistakes? Not all great writers are perfect spellers. Fine--no problem. But that's one of the reasons there are editors, isn't it? Now, when "Wyndam-Pryce" is mis-spelled as "Wyndham-Price", while that's kind of annoying to the obsessive fanboys (of which I am one; admitted), it's perfectly understandable that that's something an editor might not necessarily catch. But "ringing" someone's neck (instead of "wringing" it), or "hobbling something together" (instead of "cobbling")... where the hell's the editor on those? This issue is the second one now that mis-spells "non-corporeal" as "non-corporal". It has to go from the writer to the editor to the letterer and then back to the editor--why is no one catching these things? Even the writing in this one had a few minor things that bothered me: - Gunn's talking about the Hagan (Hagrid ;D ) Shafts, and is about to shoot Angel with a crossbow, when he lowers it and says "Oh." Oh, what? Were we supposed to know what he's talking about, or is that a surprise that's still to come? 'Cause if I was supposed to realize what he's referring to, then it went right over my head. - In the scene where Wes takes Illyria to see his body, he says, "You were there, you know what happened." Then, in the next panel: "Yes. Figured. It’s not in the best condition, we had to wait until Angel could walk to retrieve it." 'Yes, figured'? Again, 'yes, figured', what? I spent nearly two minutes trying to puzzle that out, and all I could come up with was that either A), Illyria had a line of dialogue in between Wesley's two bits that somehow didn't get added by whoever was responsible for actually laying out the balloons, or B) well, actually, I don't have a "B". Anyone else have any ideas? - He begins the scene by talking about Cordy, and by the end of it he's talking about Fred, and since neither of them are called by name, it was kind of a weird transition. By the end of it I thought I'd read it all wrong and that he was talking about Fred all along, and I ended up having to re-read it three times to get it completely straight and spot the point where he goes from one to the other. Lastly, back to the art, when "Spike:AtF" was announced, and it was revealed that the "Angel:AtF" art team was moving to "Spike", I wasn't happy, because no matter how good the new guys were, I thought that it was going to rob "Angel" of the distinctive look it had through the first five issues. And that's exactly what's happened. Even tho Brian's still writing it, and it picked up right where #5 left off, I couldn't shake the feeling as I was reading this issue that I was reading a different series. It just doesn't "feel" like "Angel:AtF" anymore. I don't understand why Urru and the others weren't kept on "Angel", with the new art team working on "Spike". Placing "First Night" where it was (still think it should've been a spinoff miniseries), and now this very disappointing return to the present-day storyline has really sapped a lot of the enthusiasm I had for AtF back at its start. And that sucks, because the story and dialogue are still as good as ever, but some of these other decisions that have been made about it have been pretty questionable (and not just in hind-sight, because I questioned them beforehand, too). I now definitely look forward to "New 'Buffy' Day" more than "New 'Angel' Day" each month, and I don't want to. I want to love them both equally, so I hope something will happen here soon that will get me re-excited about "Angel" again...
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Post by hitnrun017 on Jun 19, 2008 22:58:16 GMT -5
Just adding another mistake to El Diablo Robotico's post that sort of bothered me: In issue 4, it was Hagun Shaft and now it was Hagan Shaft. I agree 100% with you about the coloring, it put me off too.
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Post by KingofCretins on Jun 20, 2008 0:46:16 GMT -5
Runge's likenesses are off in most cases (sometimes way off), but really, Urru's likenesses weren't exactly spot-on all the time, either, and I still loved his stuff, so between the cover previews for #12 and 13, and Brian's assurances about how good Runge's work in #10 and 11 is, I'm willing to give him a pass on this one. The real problem here is with the new colorist. I know some people criticized the original guy, but looking back at the first five issues, each panel was so rich and vibrant and exciting. This issue, the exact opposite: bland, dull, and boring. Bordering on monochromatic, even. It was like a book made from a bunch of old-fashioned sepia-tone photos, with just a dash of color thrown in here or there. The next-to-last panel where Frillyria screams "No!!!", is that Fred or Illyria? I assume Illyria, because it's her in the rest of the scene, but the coloring is much more suggestive of Fred. Runge can become just as good as Brian promises, but if the coloring doesn't improve--a LOT--then there's going to continue to be major problems with the art for the rest of the series. I spent a lot of years looking at a different artist's pencils for Batman and Superman comics every week while it being part of a serialized, multi-title story, so this has not and will not bother me. Sometimes Batman's ears are a foot long, sometimes they are just little nubs. Nature of the medium. If we hadn't seen actors in these roles, it wouldn't even come up, but in the comic medium, likenesses are of a character, not the actor. So far, I prefer Runge, to be honest. Agreed, that was tricky, at least to transcribe, but it still plays. My biggest thing there was... Bro'os? Really? Mmmmm cookies That worked very well for me -- both before and after the lords are killed, the idea there was that Gunn understood Angel's plan, admired it even. What it was he figured out didn't need an explanation; we *saw* it on the next page. He knew what would happen with the hagan shafts. - In the scene where Wes takes Illyria to see his body, he says, "You were there, you know what happened." Then, in the next panel: "Yes. Figured. It’s not in the best condition, we had to wait until Angel could walk to retrieve it." 'Yes, figured'? Again, 'yes, figured', what? I spent nearly two minutes trying to puzzle that out, and all I could come up with was that either A), Illyria had a line of dialogue in between Wesley's two bits that somehow didn't get added by whoever was responsible for actually laying out the balloons, or B) well, actually, I don't have a "B". Anyone else have any ideas?[/quote] Yeah, I was baffled by that, too. I tried to re-read it with Illyria's line first, and it still didn't track for me. The only thing I can figure is that it was an (off her look) kind of line, if it were a teleplay.
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Post by Emmie on Jun 20, 2008 5:27:42 GMT -5
Anybody heard these complaints about Franco?
I agree with a lot of what Diablo said. And I REALLY miss the colorist style from issues 1-5; this issue just feels bland. Tepia-tinged bland in coloring.
Some of Runge's panels are just spot on gorgeous, like the close-up of just Illyria's eyes in the scene of her alone with Wesley - it was reminiscent of an AtS scene where Illyria is busted from fighting Hamilton, I believe (karma to anyone who can find that screencap close-up of Illyria's eys looking off to the left). The majority of the panels are okay for me and then some are just off. The likenesses are distorted, not in a comic drawing way but the way a realistic drawing depiction would be stretched. The panel where Gunn says "He had a lot of time to scurry about the building the last couple of couple months" - his head looks HUGE to me. Anyone else see that?
Anyways, on to the story portion which I loved:
- Gwen and Connor together = cute couple. How old is Gwen anyway? Early twenties? I love the complexity of their relationship and how Connor is looking to Angel for fatherly advice. This moment feels like the realization of all Angel's hopes of being a father - Connor with all his memories intact looking to Angel for guidance and Angel accepts this role with a trademark parent line of "watch your mouth" when he doesn't have the answers.
- The return of the Hyperion. Perfect feeling of coming home. The gangs all back in the hotel. There hasn't been any mention of Gunn recently by Angel(present storyline, not First Night), has there? The only one missing from the reunion (that they know of) so I wonder who's thinking about him right now.
- The Hagan(un) Shaft plan. Brilliant. Angel can't beat the Lords back with brutal strength, so it requires trickiness. Great strategy using loan shark (aka Bro'os) to pass out the evil batons of death. But he also gave one to Illyria & Spike without any warning of the consequences. Was this oversight on Bro'os or Angel's part? Or maybe Angel figured Illyria & Spike wouldn't use it against him, so they had to be passed out to all the lords for appearances sake. I'd really like a comment from Spike being pissed at Angel for sending him an exploding scepter o' death.
- Angel tricking Spike into kicking down the Hyperion's door - HA! That was a perfect summation of their relationship. Angel's thinking and manipulating outcomes, while Spike is bulldozing on ahead without realizing his button is being pushed.
- So Cordy is a for-real higher being now. And the gang is mostly cut off from the PTB's influence besides a pretty leaf show. I think this is the best way for her to be acknowledged without stretching the believability factor. I love how this shows that Wesley is trying to work the problem and be released from W&H's leash.
- Fred is inside Illyria and is fighting for control. I wish there had been a softer moment show when Fred was in control while with Wesley. Like her trying to touch his face without passing through it.
So the Lords of HellA have been dealt with leaving the confrontation with Gunn. I'm looking forward to buying Alex Garner's cover of Angel & Illyria fighting in the snow next month.
I think I figured out the "Yes. Figured." line! After showing Fred Wes' corpse, Fred changes back into Illyria. I think Wesley means that he figured Fred would retreat from having to look at Wes' dead body. He figured Illyria would reappear.
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balesthebloody
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Angel's gettin' some! Good on you mate!"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 733
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Post by balesthebloody on Jun 20, 2008 8:11:11 GMT -5
I think I figured out the "Yes. Figured." line! After showing Fred Wes' corpse, Fred changes back into Illyria. I think Wesley means that he figured Fred would retreat from having to look at Wes' dead body. He figured Illyria would reappear. That is how I read it to be also. In that moment Fred would be in a moment of weakness, giving Illyria the upper hand in the "battle".
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Smashed
Junior Vampire Slayer
[Mo0:3]
Posts: 908
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Post by Smashed on Jun 20, 2008 8:50:05 GMT -5
I'm getting this issue today!
I'm excited to see Runge's art and to see Fred. Also, am I the only one that likes Nina? Hah.
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airgirl
Initiative Soldier
Dark Moon
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Posts: 337
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Post by airgirl on Jun 20, 2008 9:10:23 GMT -5
This story line is just classic Angel isn't it? Absolutely brilliant in my opinion. I re-read the whole of ATF before reading this one, so I was fully re-capped.
- loved the Hagan Shaft twist - loved Gunn and his gang watching the fight from a distance...and waiting - loved the scenes with Fred and ghost Wes - loved the reference to Cordy - loved the scene between Angel and Connor when Connor tells Angel he remembers everything and later at the Hyperion when he says he doesn't want to go back to living with Dad - Loved the Angel and Spike dialogue throughout, always hilarious and especially digged the scene where Angel tricks Spike into kicking down the door, genius!
Like a lot of you here, agree about the artwork and also feel let down by the spelling/punctuation errors. There's no need for it. Someone should send the editorial team a copy of "Eats Shoots & Leaves"
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
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Post by dane5by5 on Jun 20, 2008 9:23:16 GMT -5
This is my favourite issue so far. God I've been saying that line so much it's getting old quickly.
I actually loved the artwork. I much prefer this artist. Even though some panels are badly off, others are perfect. I even loved the colours in this issue. Is this art team staying around for 5 issues like the previous team? I hope so!
Also the writing in this issue, for me, felt like an amazing television episode. Too good.
Can't wait for issue 10.
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balesthebloody
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Angel's gettin' some! Good on you mate!"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 733
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Post by balesthebloody on Jun 20, 2008 10:09:19 GMT -5
I'm getting this issue today! I'm excited to see Runge's art and to see Fred. Also, am I the only one that likes Nina? Hah. I like Nina...at times. I think that she was needed to give Angel a sense of being a normal guy with a girlfriend in Season 5.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jun 20, 2008 11:37:51 GMT -5
Okay, so I re-read the issue again this morning, and I enjoyed it a lot more this time around. Probably because I knew the story, and didn't have to concentrate nearly as much on the crappy art to try to figure out what was happening. A couple of hours after making that last post, I remembered something Brian said about Runge wanting to go back and re-do some panels, but just not having the time because of deadlines. So I'm gonna give the new colorist (Lyon?) the benefit of the doubt on this issue and assume that he was also working under tight time constraints, and wasn't able to add nearly the amount of depth and variation to this one that he would've liked. Now, if #10 is as bland and washed-out as this one, then I'll go back to ripping him, but for now I'll wait and see and assume it's not his fault. Because this issue just has "scrambling to meet a deadline" written all over it, with the lack of detail in both the background pencils and the colors. But if that's the case, and Runge and Lyon didn't have as much time as they needed to do their best work, then shame on IDW. Push the release back a month! Sure, the fans would've whined and complained, but better that than rushing and putting out something half-assed. When the topic came up in the S8 forums a couple of months ago about whether Dark Horse should be putting the comics out more often than just once a month, I was one of those arguing against it, because I didn't want the quality to suffer because they were hurrying to get them out faster. This issue seems to be the perfect example of why that's a bad idea. If I were Runge and Lyon, I'd be pretty pissed about this, because they came out looking bad here, and maybe thru no fault of their own. And upon re-reading it, I think koc is absolutely right about Gunn's "Oh." He wants to kill Angel himself, and when he thought the lords were about to do it, tried to beat them to the punch. But once he realized what was about to happen with the Hagan/Hagun Shafts, he lowered his crossbow because he knew that Angel was going to survive this fight, after all. One mystery solved. I'm still completely stumped about Wes's "Yes; figured" comment, tho.
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