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Post by SlayerLV on Oct 26, 2008 0:38:39 GMT -5
Just one simple comment... I loved this issue. I was so sad to see Cordy go though, it was so great to see her back again.
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Post by faithswatcher on Oct 26, 2008 19:57:43 GMT -5
Am i the only one who felt a bit underwhelmed by this issue? Maybe it was Brian bigging it up, but i was expecting more. I was expecting it to be more revealing than issue 12, issue 12 still stands out as my favourite issue so far. The gwen death came across as just conflicting, as we still dont know why she did what she did, it made her death scene even more out of place and confusing. The spikes death/non death was a great little piece of turning it around on you, but kinda pointless? yes? and if im honest, i dont like this "im gona paraphrase this because we dont have much time" stuff to do with Kates epiphany moment, thats my favourite episode/moment of the series. And it comes across that the writers just cant be bothered to go remember it word for word. Im sure this isnt true, but twice now, its been paraphrased, both to characters and us. Only thing i loved, LOVED about this issue was Connor, and the art when Gunn has his breakdown, beautiful.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Oct 26, 2008 22:54:43 GMT -5
The gwen death came across as just conflicting, as we still dont know why she did what she did, it made her death scene even more out of place and confusing. I think we got enough info about it to piece it together. LA getting sent to Hell took away her newfound ability to touch people without frying them. Gunn approached her--as the visions told him to--before Connor did, and told her that he could make "things how they were before" (allow her to touch people safely again) if she helped him. Couldn't have been less pointless. It's such a packed moment. On the surface, it's shock value. But when you look deeper, it's a) the revelation that it's not just the slayers that keep coming back to life in Gunn's place... something else is at work and b) that Angel, though it seems as if he's about to die, has a way to come back now, when Spike reveals what he knows about the whole resurrection thing. See, I'd actually think it would ring so false if Kate and Connor gave direct, word-for-word quotes of the speech. I mean, it just wouldn't be realistic, because that isn't how people talk. No matter how poignant someone's words are, when you tell someone else what they said, it will always be different. It's been three years and change since Angel gave that speech. If Kate knew it by heart, I'd probably take issue with that. Same with Connor. I agree. The Gunn crying art was excellent. I noticed that Mooney used a lot of promotional images to get his Spike likenesses right, which I was iffy about, but he does a damn good Gunn. His crying Gunn makes a sniffling Pat.
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Post by KingofCretins on Oct 27, 2008 1:31:45 GMT -5
Pat is right -- as was Brian. Having Connor just articulate the idea behind the "Epiphany" speech is much more realistic and much better than having it go verbatim from Angel to Kate to Connor to Angel. Kate got it more or less verbatim, so that's plenty.
Angel understood anyway. As the son becomes the father, the father becomes the son?
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Post by faithswatcher on Oct 27, 2008 7:43:50 GMT -5
Yeah i know that its not likely they will get it word for word, but for me it just kinda comes across that the writers couldnt be bothered to go find word for word what was actually said. Again as i said, i know this probably isnt true, but it just feels it. I just think i was expecting more than issue 12, and issue 12 was packed full of awesomeness. In a couple of months, when the whole story has finished this will probably be an issue that will contain much more impact on second (third or fourth) reading.
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Post by Brian Lynch on Oct 27, 2008 10:33:51 GMT -5
We just heard the exact words a few months ago, and it would be very very weird if, in that moment, Connor remembered it exactly. PLUS I didn't want Angel to know HIS words inspired himself, that would be a strange moment, "hey, I said that!", so I kept it general.
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Post by harmindervamp on Oct 27, 2008 11:05:18 GMT -5
hey brian lynch i just wanted to say that you are doing a fantastic job with angel after the fall. well done I knew conner will have a great role.
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Post by Brian Lynch on Oct 27, 2008 11:14:56 GMT -5
Thanks!
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Vail
Common Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 57
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Post by Vail on Oct 27, 2008 17:25:48 GMT -5
I've just finally read this awesome issue and I loved everything so much!! Congratulations Brian!! The gwen death came across as just conflicting, as we still dont know why she did what she did, it made her death scene even more out of place and confusing. I think we got enough info about it to piece it together. LA getting sent to Hell took away her newfound ability to touch people without frying them. Gunn approached her--as the visions told him to--before Connor did, and told her that he could make "things how they were before" (allow her to touch people safely again) if she helped him. I think there's more to that than we knew before this issue. In the page where Gwen is killed she implies that she trusts Gunn's words and that she loves him. I think that's why she opposed Spike and Connor and later electrified the Jet-Dragons. She trusted his loved one and he probably told her about the whole ressurrection mojo going on in the place. So I think we'll see her alive again. Does anyone think Fred is officially dead? I loved those last pages. Firstly because of Gunn's desperation and tears: such great images. But I loved it too 'cause I could feel the difference between Illyria and Fred. They weren't as they are ussually depicted: the bad tough guy vs. the innocent shocked girl. I really loved that feeling. But I can imagine what may happen in the next issue: Gunn looks like he's touching Fred's neck when saying "let's go to work". For me it looked as if he was going to sire her. And if you remember the Eyegohn chapter in Buffy's second season, when angel pulled the demon out of Jenny's body, the body chose the vampire to the demon. What if that's what happens to Fred's body? Could Gunn be the one who releases Illyria? The other great point of the book is when Connor calls angel Dad. I loved the context in which that word was said! EDIT: Oops! I forgot: can anyone tell me which was that offer that Wesley couldn't refuse (stated in the issue explanation)?
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Post by Brian Lynch on Oct 27, 2008 20:20:46 GMT -5
I don't know what that meant either.
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Post by Emmie on Oct 27, 2008 20:24:27 GMT -5
Oh yeah, totally forgot about the solicitation:
"Gunn wants to save Los Angeles. Angel will do anything to stop him. Plus, someone makes Wesley an offer he can't refuse, even if it means certain doom for everyone around him. Revelations, surprises, and battles to the death, in the lucky 13th issue of the official continuation of the Angel series."
Looks like they flubbed that one. Maybe this is something that's going to happen in the next issue?
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Oct 27, 2008 21:34:36 GMT -5
I don't know what that meant either. HAHAHAHAHA
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Post by Brian Lynch on Oct 27, 2008 23:32:22 GMT -5
Actually, that DOES fit, but for another issue. Kinda. Not really though. But sort of.
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Post by seldomnaughty on Oct 28, 2008 17:29:17 GMT -5
i thought that finally we had gotten rid of spike. I thought it was a ballsy and courageous move just to have him simply staked after all he had been through. like a reminder that he is afterall just a vampire and that is his way to go out. but no. of course not. he's back and no matter what the explantation as to why he's back. it's going to suck. just like when he came back on angel. just like when he returned to sunnydale and got the chip in his head. yeah we're never gonna get rid of this guy. ugh. meanwhile, cordy is gone again. boo and where the heck is nina? she has served ZERO purpose at all. i'm pretty sure she'll be killed off but is that her only purpose, just to add to the body count?
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Ethros
Novice Witch
I beat the bad guys[Mo0:0]
Posts: 291
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Post by Ethros on Oct 28, 2008 18:03:04 GMT -5
Just a random question- is (or rather was) the dragon male or female? They refer to it as "him" in #2, but just wondered why Angel gave him a girls name? lol
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Post by Wyndam on Oct 28, 2008 18:31:35 GMT -5
Just a random question- is (or rather was) the dragon male or female? They refer to it as "him" in #2, but just wondered why Angel gave him a girls name? lol Angel never actually gave the dragon (who is a male), the name Cordelia. When Angel was in his recovering stage and was screaming all that nonsense (like in Spike AtF #2), he screamed Cordelia's name so much that the dragon thought that was his name. So it was an inadvertent naming. Think I got that right, I need to double check the past issues though.
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Post by Brian Lynch on Oct 28, 2008 18:54:15 GMT -5
He had imaginary conversations with Cordelia to get him through the months of pain, and the Dragon, who stood guard over him, assumed Angel was talking to him.
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Ethros
Novice Witch
I beat the bad guys[Mo0:0]
Posts: 291
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Post by Ethros on Oct 29, 2008 6:27:13 GMT -5
Oh yeah, forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder, funny story!
btw, no doubt been mentioned before but I imagine we all really appreciate you for taking the time out to answer such questions and hang out on this board Brian!
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Post by Brian Lynch on Oct 29, 2008 10:29:06 GMT -5
I just really appreciate you guys WANTING to talk about it!
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Post by sagewoman on Oct 29, 2008 14:56:31 GMT -5
Brian - I love this story - I felt a shock go throughme when I saw Spike staked. I almost couldn't go on. But, thankfully I did. I love the suspense and the twists and turns. It would be boring if Icould figure it all out.
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