Little stuff that bugged you.

[wenxina]

Dec 5, 2009 5:30:34 GMT -5 gumgnome said:

We 're obviously going to disagree here, but considering the sh*t that Faith gets about it in S3, one potentially fatal blow and a measly 12 dead people actually seems like quite a bit to me. It's true that they're attacking her and that she warns them, but the bottom line for me is that she has killed some humans, something we've been told time and time again is outside her remit. But there's absolutely no follow up at all, and as far as we can tell, she doesn't even care!

We're definitely going to disagree. What was Buffy supposed to do? Just hand her sister over to the dogs?
The Faith argument doesn't hold water because of a simple chronological issue: Faith got crap for killing a guy in S3. Buffy protecting her sister happened in S5. I'm sorry there wasn't more hand-wringing and crying about the accidental deaths of a bunch of men who thought it'd be a good idea to pile down on her. Still had a sister to rescue, a hellgod to take down, and an apocalypse to avert. Plus, then she died. Again.
Just because she's a Slayer doesn't mean she forfeits her rights as a human being. That's the point I've made over and over again in the S8 board, whenever people attack her for not showing remorse about killing people. There is remorse. But there is also self-defense. Why people don't flip the coin and ask why the army aren't crying about effectively committing genocide is beyond me. Buffy doesn't like to kill people. In fact, it's flat out avoided when possible. But when you're on a speeding trailer, fighting for your life on top of said trailer, I don't expect you to care if you're kicking someone to their deaths. Not like she could've aimed their falls onto anything other than sand anyway...

And btw, Faith deserved the crap she received in S3. And really, she didn't get that much crap then. She took a bad sitch and made it worse, by first framing Buffy, then joining the Mayor, and becoming a remorseless assassin. If you're referring to the crap Faith gets in general, well, see above point about what she did with her first accidental killing of a human. She went out and started killing more.

[gumgnome]

I agree that Faith deserved the crap she got about killing Finch, and you're probably right that Buffy couldn't have done much to avoid killing some of the Knights of Byzantium. It just bugs me that for a series that made such a big deal out of killing humans this incident is so quickly forgotten.

[CourtneyDax]

In 'Restless' when Willow is reading her essay on The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe, she recites her first sentence and Xander interrupts her.....or that's how its supposed to go. The effect is totally ruined because Xander yells his line of "Oh who cares?!" a full second after Willow says her line. They should've had Xander interrupt her mid-sentence or something, so it doesn't look so staged. It would've hit harder because Xander would be so incredibly mean to poor sweet Willow!

[tkts]

This isn't something from the show, but I keep seeing the title banner at the top of this site and thinking "Willow's boobs aren't that big!" I mean, what'd she do -- magick herself into a D-cup? Because while I'm sure that would be within her powers, it wouldn't exactly be in character...

[thisyearsgirl91]

Spike lasting past S2.

Jonathan being killed.

Faking Giles being The First. I would have preferred for him to have actually been The First. It would have been good to reveal to Robin that he was being manipulated into killing Spike.

Robin failing to kill Spike and Spike keeping the jacket he stole from Nicki's dead body and wearing it in front of her son.

Giles not defending Buffy in S7.

Actually, Giles in S7. I mean really, wtf did they do to him?

Kennedy. The less said about her, the better.

Xander's attitude. Judging Angel because he used to be Angelus and then getting together with Anya. She probably killed a LOT more people than Angelus ever did, but she was fine to date and even marry.

[Paul]

Dec 27, 2009 0:43:04 GMT -5 @thisyearsgirl91 said:

Spike lasting past S2.

Actually, Giles in S7. I mean really, wtf did they do to him?

Kennedy. The less said about her, the better.

Could you please elaborate on these things? I fail to see how Spike surviving season 2, and going on to become one of the best developed characters of the entire franchise, is a bad thing. Sure, I have issues with his overexposure but you can't just dismiss his entire existence like that. He's an essential part of the series' history.

I don't see what's wrong with Giles in S7. Just because his and Buffy's relationship isn't the same as it was back in the good ol' days doesn't mean he was badly handled. The Giles-is-the-First plot was a bit pointless, but not particularly harmful to the character.

And I have a lot to say about Kennedy. A lot of good things.

[thisyearsgirl91]

Dec 27, 2009 20:10:44 GMT -5 Paul said:

Dec 27, 2009 0:43:04 GMT -5 @thisyearsgirl91 said:

Spike lasting past S2.

Actually, Giles in S7. I mean really, wtf did they do to him?

Kennedy. The less said about her, the better.

Could you please elaborate on these things? I fail to see how Spike surviving season 2, and going on to become one of the best developed characters of the entire franchise, is a bad thing. Sure, I have issues with his overexposure but you can't just dismiss his entire existence like that. He's an essential part of the series' history.

I don't see what's wrong with Giles in S7. Just because his and Buffy's relationship isn't the same as it was back in the good ol' days doesn't mean he was badly handled. The Giles-is-the-First plot was a bit pointless, but not particularly harmful to the character.

And I have a lot to say about Kennedy. A lot of good things.

Yeah sorry, I didn't really think to explain.

Spike - I just really disliked him past S2. To me, he was badass in S2. He was an awesome vampire. After the whole chip thing, his character was ruined. I just couldn't stand him. I can kinda take him in S3, but crying over Dru leaving him just isn't exactly 'badass'. I just think he started off great and was later ruined.

Giles in S7 to me, just was not Giles. His character was changed for the worse. I do think his relationship with Buffy was ruined, mainly due to the Spike thing.

Kennedy is probably pretty obvious. She's not exactly popular with fans. I just couldn't stand her. She was an utter bitch who was full of herself.

The 3 opinions you asked me on are pretty much popular opinions on the Imdb boards. I always fail to explain myself thoroughly, so maybe someone there could help you if you want further details.

[Randi Giles]

Dec 26, 2009 23:51:18 GMT -5 tkts said:

This isn't something from the show, but I keep seeing the title banner at the top of this site and thinking "Willow's boobs aren't that big!" I mean, what'd she do -- magick herself into a D-cup? Because while I'm sure that would be within her powers, it wouldn't exactly be in character...

Lol. No they really weren't, but I think in Season 8 they made a few changes. I mean is it just me or does Buffy look taller.

[Paul]

Dec 27, 2009 20:25:39 GMT -5 @thisyearsgirl91 said:

Yeah sorry, I didn't really think to explain.

Spike - I just really disliked him past S2. To me, he was badass in S2. He was an awesome vampire. After the whole chip thing, his character was ruined. I just couldn't stand him. I can kinda take him in S3, but crying over Dru leaving him just isn't exactly 'badass'. I just think he started off great and was later ruined.

Giles in S7 to me, just was not Giles. His character was changed for the worse. I do think his relationship with Buffy was ruined, mainly due to the Spike thing.

Kennedy is probably pretty obvious. She's not exactly popular with fans. I just couldn't stand her. She was an utter bitch who was full of herself.

The 3 opinions you asked me on are pretty much popular opinions on the Imdb boards. I always fail to explain myself thoroughly, so maybe someone there could help you if you want further details.

So you'd rather Spike had stayed a one-dimensional villain incapable of emotion so long as he retained his "badass" status? Don't you see how shallow that is? Frankly, I never cared much for Spike in S2. It was only in S3 and S4, when his more vulnerable side came out, that I began to find him interesting.

I don't see how Giles stopped being Giles in S7. He was always ruthless and capable of betrayal, "Lies My Parents Told Me" is perfectly in keeping with that.

See, this Kennedy thing bothers me. It seems like people just hate her because everybody else does. "Uber bitch who was full of herself" is an extremely blinkered view of the character; she was confidant, strong, and assertive. Those are positive character traits. Just because she wasn't a meek and submissive like Tara doesn't make her a "bitch". This is supposed to be a show about female empowerment, yes? Kennedy embodies that. I've yet to hear a single good reason to dislike her.

If I were you, I'd stop listening to people at IMDb (who, from what I hear, are mindless haters anyway) and try forming my own opinions about the show. Sorry if that sounds rude, but it seems like you're just repeating what others have said.

[thisyearsgirl91]

Dec 27, 2009 20:47:19 GMT -5 Paul said:

Dec 27, 2009 20:25:39 GMT -5 @thisyearsgirl91 said:

Yeah sorry, I didn't really think to explain.

Spike - I just really disliked him past S2. To me, he was badass in S2. He was an awesome vampire. After the whole chip thing, his character was ruined. I just couldn't stand him. I can kinda take him in S3, but crying over Dru leaving him just isn't exactly 'badass'. I just think he started off great and was later ruined.

Giles in S7 to me, just was not Giles. His character was changed for the worse. I do think his relationship with Buffy was ruined, mainly due to the Spike thing.

Kennedy is probably pretty obvious. She's not exactly popular with fans. I just couldn't stand her. She was an utter bitch who was full of herself.

The 3 opinions you asked me on are pretty much popular opinions on the Imdb boards. I always fail to explain myself thoroughly, so maybe someone there could help you if you want further details.

So you'd rather Spike had stayed a one-dimensional villain incapable of emotion so long as he retained his "badass" status? Don't you see how shallow that is? Frankly, I never cared much for Spike in S2. It was only in S3 and S4, when his more vulnerable side came out, that I began to find him interesting.

I don't see how Giles stopped being Giles in S7. He was always ruthless and capable of betrayal, "Lies My Parents Told Me" is perfectly in keeping with that.

See, this Kennedy thing bothers me. It seems like people just hate her because everybody else does. "Uber bitch who was full of herself" is an extremely blinkered view of the character; she was confidant, strong, and assertive. Those are positive character traits. Just because she wasn't a meek and submissive like Tara doesn't make her a "bitch". This is supposed to be a show about female empowerment, yes? Kennedy embodies that. I've yet to hear a single good reason to dislike her.

If I were you, I'd stop listening to people at IMDb (who, from what I hear, are mindless haters anyway) and try forming my own opinions about the show. Sorry if that sounds rude, but it seems like you're just repeating what others have said.

Not at all. I appreciate his character development and I agree that he had a lot of it. Maybe the most next to Wesley. I just don't like how his character developed and would have preferred for him to have just been a S2 character. There's nothing shallow about not liking Spike after S2 and preferring him being a badass vampire. I'm thinking in terms of him not being a regular here, so maybe that's why it sounds a little shallow.

He just wasn't Giles to me. He's probably my favourite character in the verse and I just thought his character wasn't the same in S7.

She most certainly was confidant, strong, and assertive, but too much so for my liking. The whole 'maggot' thing really made me dislike her. I know that she was the strongest potential, but she acted like she was in charge of everything. She kinda reminded me of Faith.

That does sound rude, especially since I have had these opinions since the show finished and I have not been posting on Imdb since that time. The people on Imdb are nice people. I was just trying to say that they can be a lot more descriptive, if that's what you wanted. Maybe that wouldn't be wise.

[Paul]

Dec 27, 2009 21:14:26 GMT -5 @thisyearsgirl91 said:

Not at all. I appreciate his character development and I agree that he had a lot of it. Maybe the most next to Wesley. I just don't like how his character developed and would have preferred for him to have just been a S2 character. There's nothing shallow about not liking Spike after S2 and preferring him being a badass vampire. I'm thinking in terms of him not being a regular here, so maybe that's why it sounds a little shallow.

He just wasn't Giles to me. He's probably my favourite character in the verse and I just thought his character wasn't the same in S7.

She most certainly was confidant, strong, and assertive, but too much so for my liking. The whole 'maggot' thing really made me dislike her. I know that she was the strongest potential, but she acted like she was in charge of everything. She kinda reminded me of Faith.

That does sound rude, especially since I have had these opinions since the show finished and I have not been posting on Imdb since that time. The people on Imdb are nice people. I was just trying to say that they can be a lot more descriptive, if that's what you wanted. Maybe that wouldn't be wise.

But Spike's development is completely intertwined with Buffy's development. If he hadn't appeared past season 2, the entire series would have been different. So I just don't understand how you can be a fan of the show and not want Spike to be there. Like him or hate him, he's crucial.

Kennedy was no more rude than Anya or Cordelia, who are both extremely popular characters. You compare her to Faith, who's also an extremely popular character. I don't see how you can be "too" strong and assertive. Kennedy reminds me of Buffy herself; she's going to speak her mind, stand up for herself and not follow orders. The fact that fans dislike her for that is deeply disturbing.

I'm sorry for appearing rude, but you weren't very specific in your criticisms and it sounded like you were just following general fan opinion.

[willowsummers]

Dec 27, 2009 22:14:49 GMT -5 Paul said:

But Spike's development is completely intertwined with Buffy's development. If he hadn't appeared past season 2, the entire series would have been different. So I just don't understand how you can be a fan of the show and not want Spike to be there. Like him or hate him, he's crucial.

Kennedy was no more rude than Anya or Cordelia, who are both extremely popular characters. You compare her to Faith, who's also an extremely popular character. I don't see how you can be "too" strong and assertive. Kennedy reminds me of Buffy herself; she's going to speak her mind, stand up for herself and not follow orders. The fact that fans dislike her for that is deeply disturbing.

I'm sorry for appearing rude, but you weren't very specific in your criticisms and it sounded like you were just following general fan opinion.

I love Spike and I do think he's crucial to the show. Spike ended up being one of my favorite characters so I certainly don't think we could do without him. He was interesting and complicated and brought out interesting and important things in Buffy.

Kennedy, I never have been crazy about but mainly just because she's not the type of girl I like. She does seem kind of brash and rude but, as you pointed out, so do some of my favorites so I don't think that's my problem with her. Perhaps with more time to get to know her, I'd like her better.

[thisyearsgirl91]

Dec 27, 2009 22:14:49 GMT -5 Paul said:

Dec 27, 2009 21:14:26 GMT -5 @thisyearsgirl91 said:

Not at all. I appreciate his character development and I agree that he had a lot of it. Maybe the most next to Wesley. I just don't like how his character developed and would have preferred for him to have just been a S2 character. There's nothing shallow about not liking Spike after S2 and preferring him being a badass vampire. I'm thinking in terms of him not being a regular here, so maybe that's why it sounds a little shallow.

He just wasn't Giles to me. He's probably my favourite character in the verse and I just thought his character wasn't the same in S7.

She most certainly was confidant, strong, and assertive, but too much so for my liking. The whole 'maggot' thing really made me dislike her. I know that she was the strongest potential, but she acted like she was in charge of everything. She kinda reminded me of Faith.

That does sound rude, especially since I have had these opinions since the show finished and I have not been posting on Imdb since that time. The people on Imdb are nice people. I was just trying to say that they can be a lot more descriptive, if that's what you wanted. Maybe that wouldn't be wise.

But Spike's development is completely intertwined with Buffy's development. If he hadn't appeared past season 2, the entire series would have been different. So I just don't understand how you can be a fan of the show and not want Spike to be there. Like him or hate him, he's crucial.

Kennedy was no more rude than Anya or Cordelia, who are both extremely popular characters. You compare her to Faith, who's also an extremely popular character. I don't see how you can be "too" strong and assertive. Kennedy reminds me of Buffy herself; she's going to speak her mind, stand up for herself and not follow orders. The fact that fans dislike her for that is deeply disturbing.

I'm sorry for appearing rude, but you weren't very specific in your criticisms and it sounded like you were just following general fan opinion.

It's hard to imagine him not being there, but I disagree. I think the show could have been better without him. I just couldn't stand his character. Buffy would have developed without him. I'm sure that Joss could have come up with several ways to develope her character.

Is Faith popular? I didn't know that. I'm not a big fan of Faith, but I can see why people like her. Anya didn't mean to be rude. She was an ex demon, who didn't understand how to act human. Anya is another character I really didn't like in S7. I sound like I hate S7, but I don't. I used to consider it my favourite season, but there are some major issues I have with it.

Cordelia was also a bitch, but at least she could be nice and sympathetic. Kennedy reminds me of Buffy in a sense that they are both strong and assertive, but they handled it differently. I just can't imagine Buffy doing or saying the things Kennedy did.

It's ok. I am just usually rubbish when it comes to explaining, which is why I suggested Imdb. Spike is very popular on a lot of sites I visit, so if I were following fan opinion, I'd be a huge fan.

[Randi Giles]

Dec 28, 2009 2:18:50 GMT -5 @thisyearsgirl91 said:

Is Faith popular? I didn't know that.

Oh, you cut me deep there.

Edit - My opinion Spike and Faith are two of the best characters in the Buffyverse.

Plus another thing that bugged me. I watched Amends recently and had to listen to Angel what sounded like he was hyperventilating or something. It's the scene where the first is taunting in his mansion. It was really annoying.

[thisyearsgirl91]

Dec 28, 2009 9:48:51 GMT -5 Randi Giles said:

Dec 28, 2009 2:18:50 GMT -5 @thisyearsgirl91 said:

Is Faith popular? I didn't know that.

Oh, you cut me deep there.

Edit - My opinion Spike and Faith are two of the best characters in the Buffyverse.

Plus another thing that bugged me. I watched Amends recently and had to listen to Angel what sounded like he was hyperventilating or something. It's the scene where the first is taunting in his mansion. It was really annoying.

I didn't know she was popular. I thought she was somewhere in the middle on the popularity scale. It wasn't an insult again the character or anything, although I don't like her.

I think Spike and Faith are insufferable in S7. Seriously, all that basement stuff makes me wanna kill things.

[CourtneyDax]

Dec 28, 2009 15:57:25 GMT -5 @thisyearsgirl91 said:

I think Spike and Faith are insufferable in S7. Seriously, all that basement stuff makes me wanna kill things.

I personally think that Spike and Faith's "basement business" was really interesting actually. Those scenes showed that they had become more than just who they were when they started out. Instead of being "Slayer" and "Vampire" exclusively (which is how they were when they were introduced as Secondary characters), they instead grew and became deeply complicated people. I respect that because it proves the show's ingenuity.

[thisyearsgirl91]

Dec 30, 2009 3:24:55 GMT -5 CourtneyDax said:

Dec 28, 2009 15:57:25 GMT -5 @thisyearsgirl91 said:

I think Spike and Faith are insufferable in S7. Seriously, all that basement stuff makes me wanna kill things.

I personally think that Spike and Faith's "basement business" was really interesting actually. Those scenes showed that they had become more than just who they were when they started out. Instead of being "Slayer" and "Vampire" exclusively (which is how they were when they were introduced as Secondary characters), they instead grew and became deeply complicated people. I respect that because it proves the show's ingenuity.

Faith was just being her usual 'look at me, I'm so hawt' self to me.

I did appreciate the serious parts though. Just a shame they had to fill it in with Faith's annoying personality.

[PJ]

has anyone said about the cowboy hat buffy was wearing in 'Pangs'. because that really bothered me. lol.

[Greer]

Dec 31, 2009 10:39:18 GMT -5 PJ said:

has anyone said about the cowboy hat buffy was wearing in 'Pangs'. because that really bothered me. lol.

I'm not sure, but I'll whole-heartedly agree with you. Really, just a lot of her fashion choices in general. There are some things that are to-die-for, but then they're conversely grouped with some really bad stuff.

Plus, Buffy's bangs. Not a good look for her. But I know that's been thoroughly discussed elsewhere.


In other news, I'm glad that someone else was annoyed with Giles and Xander. I do adore Giles with all of my heart, but it's really annoying and irksome that he doesn't defend Buffy in S7. He has taught her so much, and it was bound to happen that she was going to grow into the general role. I mean, really...when has Buffy led them purposely astray? Season 2? When she was still screwed up by Angelus?

Xander, I just wish that he'd stop being so gosh darned jealous of Buffy's boyfriends. With Angel, he did horrible things as Angelus, but he didn't know what was going to happen to him, and he tried to atone for so long afterwards, even after being out of Buffy's life for a while. He has long been a hypocrite in my eyes, with regards to the Anya subject...and for Spike, just get off of his back. He did some horrible things as well, but he did a lot of selfless, good things as well. Especially after he went to get his soul, just for Buffy.

Oy.

[teamireland]

The Scythe seen in Season 7.

For something so old...it looked very futuristic. Red plastic and super shiney silver.