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Post by hitnrun017 on May 20, 2009 18:56:08 GMT -5
I thought this issue was another improvement, namely in the art department. The art was just soooooooo much better this time, that I just don't understand why Dave drew the first 3 issues like he did. It's a different artist. It is? Ah man, can't help but feel sort of bad that our complaining was probably the reason why he left or was asked to leave, but I'm glad to hear the art is a big improvement. After reading your review Pat, I see no reason to make a trip to the comic shop to get this until Tales of the Vampires is released. That was a very disappointing read.
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jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
Claimer of Funn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,174
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Post by jellymoff on May 20, 2009 19:04:04 GMT -5
Who's the artist for this issue? Stefano Martino is his name, I've never heard of him B4
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Post by Emmie on May 20, 2009 19:18:53 GMT -5
Dang, Pat. Read the review and it felt like another nail in the coffin of my hopes that Aftermath maybe, just maybe had something more to offer. It's good that they changed artists, though I'm still wondering why Mooney's talent was directed at a episodic memorial comic when I felt he should have been used here. If he could have been. Cordelia. That is the most painful part to read about and realize that yes, Armstrong really did just use her because she wanted to. What a waste. I agree that Lynch's use of Cordy (while for the most part I'd like her death to not have become a "I'll visit" thing) fell on the side of working. It was an epic moment and Angel was on the brink of death. Having Cordy there to help him cross over worked. But this? It sounds like a complete waste. Sigh.
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Post by Wyndam on May 20, 2009 21:16:55 GMT -5
Oh wow, I thought when the preview came out that someone said it was still Dave Ross doing art. I was so busy that I didn't even really get to read the preview or look into it more to find out that it was a new artist. Guess that just carried over to this issue, where I didn't even check to see if Dave was doing the art.
The improved art was really the only thing going for this issue though.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on May 20, 2009 21:24:34 GMT -5
This was the best issue of the arc so far, with the story finally moving along a bit. The whole issue of the Potentates being in L.A. still seems to contradict what we were told in AtF about the Powers' ability to interfere in Hell-A, but whatever. James is starting to be almost interesting as a character, and we finally get the scoop (apparently) on Angel's mysterious new employers. If they're the guardians of balance, one wonders if they're currently working to prop up the side of good or of evil... you could certainly make a case for either one needing the assistance right now.
I continue to like Dez a good deal, and I think she'd make a fine addition to the Angelverse if only she were surrounded by more accurate versions of the canonical characters.
The art (if not necessarily the likenesses) were much better. I thought Cordelia was the most "off" character, but since she shouldn't have been there anyway, the bad likeness makes it easier for me to pretend she wasn't.
Gwen seemed a bit more in character. She actually showed some attitude instead of just mooning inexplicably over Connor.
Cordy's appearance was gratuitous, inappropriate, and poorly written. I'd hoped James had been lying to get Angel's attention when he invoked her name earlier, but apparently not. And Angel's reaction to her appearance is completely bland... he already seems to be taking her visits for granted.
Overall I'd give this issue a C+... would have been a B- except for the Cordy incident.
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Post by Wyndam on May 20, 2009 21:25:34 GMT -5
The memorial for Andy at the beginning of the issue was really nice.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on May 21, 2009 1:29:01 GMT -5
The memorial for Andy at the beginning of the issue was really nice. Very true.
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Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on May 21, 2009 3:25:10 GMT -5
This all sounds really bad... We can't have Cordy's last return (if it really is this time) so dreadful, Kelly has not right to do so... Brian Lynch really needs to fix her mistake and give her a first-class departure again (like #13/ #17?) or should it just end on such a low? A memorial would be really nice for them to do..
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Post by Wyndam on May 21, 2009 11:46:35 GMT -5
Maybe we'll get lucky and the Potentates will double cross Angel in #22 and the Cordy in #21 will have been proved a fake just to get Angel to trust the Potentates.
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on May 21, 2009 12:08:28 GMT -5
HOPEFULLY!
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Malsad
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Attack Attack!
[Mo0:37]
Posts: 684
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Post by Malsad on May 21, 2009 16:25:16 GMT -5
Dear God in Heaven I do hope so.
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Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on May 22, 2009 0:00:35 GMT -5
I just bought it today... wow. that was shit. "hey, come on guys! that's not fair. give a girl a_---" Um... ok, is that ment to be funny ? are we suppose to to say “ha ha ha, that’s our Cordy”… But she looked a bit like the MAC Angel Cordy figure so that was cool. But I really want to see a fight (verbal) with her and Illyria : Higher Being Vs Old One / Cordy Vs Fred
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on May 22, 2009 1:38:42 GMT -5
Sorry to say, but that will most likely never happen...sounds like Kelley screwed Cordy up. I had a feeling this would happen. Let's just ignore Aftermath...
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Ethros
Novice Witch
I beat the bad guys[Mo0:0]
Posts: 291
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Post by Ethros on May 23, 2009 16:54:43 GMT -5
After reading the reviews I am sooooooooo glad I stopped buying this after the first two issues (#19)
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on May 23, 2009 18:01:57 GMT -5
I flicked through this in the shop (don't buy it anymore) and it looked as bad as people are saying. Can someone please tell IDW that Cordelia is not some party trick they can just wheel out for cheap thrills, from the sounds of things it's become almost a running gag in the series itself. She looked like crap as well. Gwen's thong peeking out of her pants. This reminded me of something I read the other day... In the introduction to Fray, Joss says " I had come to Dark Horse with pretty much one stipulation: No cheesecake. No giant sillicone hooters, no standing with her butt out in that bizarrely uncomfortable soft-core pose so many artists favor. None of those outfits that casually - and constantly - reveal portions of thong. I wanted a real girl, with real posture, a slight figure (that's my classy way of saying "little boobs"), and most of all, a distinctive face. A person." There you go, Joss has specifically said that he strives to avoid cheesecake T&A, and yet Aftermath is subjecting his characters to that on a montly basis. It's sad, and representative of how little he has to do with Angel anymore. Now I don't have a problem with T&A (God knows She-Hulk and Emma Frost are two of my favourite characters) but only if it's in-character. If it was only Gwen I might be able to forgive it, but Kate?! I don't see how anyone can possibily justify Kate's cheesecake arse shot on page 6 of #19. Instead of "a person" like Karl Moline delivered with Fray, we're getting an out-of-character bimbo.
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Post by hitnrun017 on May 23, 2009 18:13:33 GMT -5
Gwen's thong peeking out of her pants. This reminded me of something I read the other day... In the introduction to Fray, Joss says " I had come to Dark Horse with pretty much one stipulation: No cheesecake. No giant sillicone hooters, no standing with her butt out in that bizarrely uncomfortable soft-core pose so many artists favor. None of those outfits that casually - and constantly - reveal portions of thong. I wanted a real girl, with real posture, a slight figure (that's my classy way of saying "little boobs"), and most of all, a distinctive face. A person." There you go, Joss has specifically said that he strives to avoid cheesecake T&A, and yet Aftermath is subjecting his characters to that on a montly basis. It's sad, and representative of how little he has to do with Angel anymore. Now I don't have a problem with T&A (God knows She-Hulk and Emma Frost are two of my favourite characters) but only if it's in-character. If it was only Gwen I might be able to forgive it, but Kate?! I don't see how anyone can possibily justify Kate's cheesecake arse shot on page 6 of #19. Instead of "a person" like Karl Moline delivered with Fray, we're getting an out-of-character bimbo. Haven't gotten this yet, but Season 8 is also guilty of the pointless cleavage. The Willow and Dawn nudity were crucial to the plot, but Jeanty has been guilty of the random thong sticking out in No Future for You Pt. 3. Not to mention there are at least five times I can think of where he added in random butt cleavage. Guess comic book artists just enjoy drawing that stuff.
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on May 23, 2009 19:15:58 GMT -5
This reminded me of something I read the other day... In the introduction to Fray, Joss says " I had come to Dark Horse with pretty much one stipulation: No cheesecake. No giant sillicone hooters, no standing with her butt out in that bizarrely uncomfortable soft-core pose so many artists favor. None of those outfits that casually - and constantly - reveal portions of thong. I wanted a real girl, with real posture, a slight figure (that's my classy way of saying "little boobs"), and most of all, a distinctive face. A person." There you go, Joss has specifically said that he strives to avoid cheesecake T&A, and yet Aftermath is subjecting his characters to that on a montly basis. It's sad, and representative of how little he has to do with Angel anymore. Now I don't have a problem with T&A (God knows She-Hulk and Emma Frost are two of my favourite characters) but only if it's in-character. If it was only Gwen I might be able to forgive it, but Kate?! I don't see how anyone can possibily justify Kate's cheesecake arse shot on page 6 of #19. Instead of "a person" like Karl Moline delivered with Fray, we're getting an out-of-character bimbo. Haven't gotten this yet, but Season 8 is also guilty of the pointless cleavage. The Willow and Dawn nudity were crucial to the plot, but Jeanty has been guilty of the random thong sticking out in No Future for You Pt. 3. Not to mention there are at least five times I can think of where he added in random butt cleavage. Guess comic book artists just enjoy drawing that stuff. Like I said though, a bit of T&A is all well and good, but transforming a fairly modest-dressing policewoman into Ms. Marvel is another story. (This wasn't directed at this issue in particular, more of a general rant at Aftermath.)
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Post by shocksmile on May 27, 2009 11:44:20 GMT -5
INCREDIBLE. that was the biggest pile of shit i´ve read in ages.
like many hardcore fans here I´m able to fanwank a lot of nonsense into making sense but what armstrong has been doing to angel is nothing short of disgusting. doesn´t anyone at idw read what they´re putting out? this is even worse than those first buffy comics on dark horse...
i´m sorry if i come across as hostile but these characters mean a whole lot to me and it hurts me to see joss´s work & vision being raped like that
- angel is reduced to being a dimwitted beefcake who´s taken by surprise by pretty much everything - cordy sounded and looked NOTHING like us fans would expect her to. her appearance was a disgrace to her character & shows that armstrong hasn´t got the faintest idea what she´s doing - the warrior angels plot makes no sense whatsoever - gwen´s just a bitch - connor & kate are still only recognizable by their clothes - the art is still a joke, even if it´s a little less cruel one
actually, I´m kinda shocked how pissed off I got while reading it. i don´t necessarily care about the "canon" issue and i´ve been enjoying pretty much every buffyverse comic available - even connor´s spotlight (which is atrocious to be honest).
But this... this is an abortion.
SERIOUSLY. DON´T BUY IT.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on May 27, 2009 14:40:44 GMT -5
I actually liked Connor's spotlight a lot. It was way better than Gunn's.
But really, though, the Cordelia appearance was definitely terrible.
But can you really recognize Kate by her clothes? Because that isn't how the Kate I know dresses.
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Post by shocksmile on May 27, 2009 15:26:46 GMT -5
But can you really recognize Kate by her clothes? Because that isn't how the Kate I know dresses. you´re quite right patx what I meant was, the look they gave her in the comic is so horrible it´s instantly recognizable. of course it´s got nothing to do with they way she looked on tv. just like gwen´s marvelsuperherocostume. and connor - the haircut´s the only giveaway.
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