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Post by wenxina on Mar 1, 2009 16:16:25 GMT -5
Finally read this today, and here are a few thoughts. Likes: Clearly using the events of AtF as a launching point. Not saying that it is canon, but at least IDW is trying to keep their Angel story coherent at least in-house. This whole thing about the fallout is intriguing, since the apocalypse technically never happened due to the physical reset. But in vein of previous Buffyverse stories, all powerful magic have repercussions, and this could very well be one. I enjoyed the slightly lighter tone of the issue; it reminded me of the early AtS S2 days, after Angel first learned of the Shanshu in S1. Ironically, this now segues into my dislikes/apprehension section.
Dislikes: I'm in the camp which doesn't think that the "redeemed" line is fitting. I liked the second bit, about his uncertain future, but the Angel we've known would never say anything along those lines. Especially not since he's the poster boy for seeking redemption. Even in the early S2 days, he came to the epiphany that he shouldn't be doing good to keep a scoreboard, but rather because it needed doing. Extrapolate that to the later seasons, and it's pretty clear that Angel doesn't feel fully redeemed by his various white knight deeds. It may be interesting to note that in "Chosen", Buffy defers "Champion" duty to Spike, instead of having Angel do it instead. Plot convenience sure, and I'm no way instigating a Spike vs. Angel for worthiness debate, but Angel did lose his champion-y ways somewhat in S5. That gripe aside, I'm willing to overlook the line for now, as long as it's just a line, and not a mission statement. If it's the latter... the Angel series may quickly lose its luster for me.
Moving on. The writing in general was adequate, but Kate's character just seems to have been reset entirely. At least Lynch's Kate bore a certain resemblance to the Kate from the series. But this Kate is completely different, no guarded sarcasm, no punch to the punchline. On a more superficial note, she looks nothing like Kate. The shampoo commercial tousled curls, the midriff top... really? Likenesses seem to be the weak point in terms of the art.
Also, the explanation of what's happened to the old gang just seemed kinda weak. I mean, one panel of Spike brooding? Angel may have saved LA, but Spike saved many lives before that... you'd think he'd have more on his plate than just brooding. And still no payoff for the wasted potential of Lorne's story. And absolutely nothing about Illyria. Gunn's the only one offered a compelling case, and even then, it's only in retrospect that I can offer that generosity.
Overall, the story has potential to go in a new direction. But my pulse isn't quickening at all right now.
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pablo
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Post by pablo on Mar 1, 2009 18:28:53 GMT -5
Ok, i managed to read it today, here's my thoughts: so far Angel: Aftermath has proven to have a not very solid start. Now i understand Ms Armstrong's job is one of the hardest: she's a newcomer to the 'verse and to the comic medium, is still trying to channel the characters' voices and translate their personalities into the comic book form, not to mention the fact that she had to pick up a storyline, Angel's, that had been "nicely" wrapped up in AtF #17. So this fresh start is a double-edged sword. This clean slate (i'm borrowing this term from Ms Saunders lol) is a salvation to Ms Armstrong, because she does not have to deal with an uninifshed storyline (eg she had to pick up AtF halfway through the mini-series), and has so far dealt with the AtF repercussions (characters-wise) marginally, meaning that each character's journey had been satisfyingly developed throughout the miniseries without necesessarily going back to it further. As Mr Lynch predicted, we do of course wonder about Spike, Illyria and Gunn, especially because they won't be game in this part of the story, and, what with them being such major players in the 'verse and such established characters in Angel's saga, we do miss them. And there's not a shade of doubt the story will go back at Gunn and Illyria's conversation in the car (although Illyria's promise of revenge in #17 foreshadowed this confrontation).
However, this clean slate also proves to be a disadvantage, at least in my opinion. Angel's internal developement seems to be rushed and at the same time rugged - being used to Angel's long self-blaming, sense of guilt and him feeling the whole weight of the world on his shoulders, I felt his "reedemed the past" line a bit OOC. It may sounds like something he might think after bringing LA back to Hell, and people's adoration for that has probably echoed it, but i doubt Angel would firmly state somthing like that. At least not so early in the story. We know both of the shows (BtVS and AtS) have proven to be very character-driven. although they are also action shows, the major developements regard the emotional and personal sphere. and said developements happen and come after several events, especially such firm declaraction of identities. now of course AtF is a strong motif for Angel to state something like this, and his convinction regarding this newfound state of mind has to be affirmed in order to offer such a strong starter for the new story-arc.
The other minor problem i've had with this issue was Kate. I appreciate that Ms Armstrong has decided not to betting on the strongest characters, the most established in the franchise, like Gunn, Illyria or Spike, mainly because they are all off to their own spin-off issues or series, but also because AtF has revolved mainly around them, leaving minor yet interesting characters like Gwen, Nina and Kate mostly in the background. And i'm also grateful for the lack of resurrection or magical returns from the dead of other characters, like Fred or Wes, that would have been too fan-pleasing (and as much as i LOVE AtF, i think they did make a few fan-pleasing choices [Wes, Fred's non-return, even Cordy I might add], but they blended amazingly with the whole story, so it was no bother at all) Gwen has of course a lot of redemption ahead of her, and i can see Angel helping her out about this, what with his neverending ('til now) atonement and all. And I'm sure Nina's prevalence in issue #17 was just a sneak peek of what's to come for her character. But let's get to Gwen. I loved her in seasons one and two, and i missed her when her character was written out of the series. I thought she has always been an unofficial founding member of AI, along with Doyle, Cordy and Wes. So it was cool to have her back in First Night, and her story was brilliant. short, impacting and straight to business, just like Kate was. I found it hard to see the "real" Kate in this issue. First off, her looks were a bit off. I loved Buffy comics from the start (i'm talking about DH's run) because they refused to portray every female character as a perfect girl - very curvy but slender, blonde, blue eyes. Since Buffy was a drama about female empowerement, that would have been contradictorial. Kate was always a bit of a tomboy, never did care about her looks the way cordy did, for istance, so to see her in that WAY too slayer-y and latex-like tight gear felt a bit OOC. Furthermore, her arc-bound character developement felt as rushed as Angel's. "Hi, can i work for you for ol'times's sake? Great let's establish AI in the church i found!" now i read Ms Armstrong's explanation for Kate's happiness, what with having found her place in the world and all, but still.
Same thing with Connor, one moment he's trying to sort out his own way into the world, next thing you know he tells Kate (not even his own father who RUNS the agency) he wants in.
Apart from the whole rushing the characters' developement, I could relate to Angel's feeling of disconnection and lack of much-needed loneliness. I like the fact that all the attention won't allow him to brood like he did back in the day, but going from a tortured soul to a tired and "obnoxious" hero is a step too far. Then again, from what we saw in the issue, this whole instant-star thing has made him lose the point of going back to square one, which is one of the main themes of the arc, from what i gathered. And has made him a bit cynic towards the humanity he wowed to protect.
The two new villains seemed a bit too W&H-esque, what with being slick and smiling agents for an agency that dabbles with the supernatural. However, the speculation about them being the Oracles has made me more optimistic towards them, and i do think this is a very likely guess since Aftermath seems to be looking for all sorts of connection with season 1.
In the end, I like this Season 1 - Redux outline. Angel wants to go back to his roots, to how he got started, but what happened from then can't be forgotten and will inevitably have repercussions on him and on the world in general. which is a very good point the two baddies made.
I also feel that an ANGEL-BTVS s.8 crossover is becoming more and more possible. Now the two series deal with very similar themes: the hero's disconnection from its mission and the people that are supposed to be helping him, a newfound fame and their operations being out in the open, and also having to deal with the consequences of their very choices (buffy's potential and angel's battle against W&H).
I enjoyed the issue, even though I had the feeling this is not 100% canon, and I will keep reading it, though without the anticipation I had for AtF.
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Hallow Thorn
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Mar 2, 2009 1:09:50 GMT -5
I had a fick thought it at the comic book shop, it looked good, I did not see Kate in it at all or the unknow-if-is-higher-powers...
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sire
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Post by sire on Mar 2, 2009 6:10:38 GMT -5
I hope everyone reads AFTERMATH, but to appreciate the Gunn issue you only really need to have read ATF. And Dru is kinda self-contained. Heck, I wrote the Gunn issue and co-wrote the Drusilla issues, and I've only read one issue of AFTERMATH, and an outline for the next couple of issues. WIN! Thanks Brian, I loved ATF and consider it as conical as the show so Im really looking forward to the Gunn and Drusilla stories ;D
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Fireball
Common Vampire
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Post by Fireball on Mar 3, 2009 8:17:56 GMT -5
Just read it, although a slight sluggish start to be honest. I enjoyed it and it was a nice carry on from ATF. Bad point was Kate, that just wasn't her. I wasnt a fan of her design, nothing like her at all. And Im a Kate fan.
I have faith that this will get better though, just not the greatest start.
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Post by franks988 on Mar 3, 2009 20:12:02 GMT -5
This is not Angel! When Brian returns?? Oh Merciful Zeus!! also this is not canonino!
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Post by cheungcheung on Mar 3, 2009 21:52:19 GMT -5
i really disliked this issue immensely.... for all the various reasons noted prior.
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Post by magicegidius on Mar 4, 2009 12:07:26 GMT -5
Isn't there anybody who likes this issue? I think a clear start isn't very bad... New ways to explore, don't keep bring back old characters (that's the main complain about Buffy).
I adored Brians writing; I am glad he will come back.
But give miss Armstrong some chance to prove plzzz
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Malsad
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Post by Malsad on Mar 4, 2009 12:13:48 GMT -5
I think by issue 3 it will be all right
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alycat7
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Post by alycat7 on Mar 4, 2009 15:09:37 GMT -5
I loved this issue. I find the whole new beginnings very calming. I also like that Angel will possibly be building a new team.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Mar 4, 2009 16:18:23 GMT -5
I liked it for what it was. I just had to rid myself of all notions that it was canon and look at it as a professionally created fanfic.
That's no reflection on its quality -- I've read fanfics that were better than some of the lesser TV episodes.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Mar 4, 2009 16:21:19 GMT -5
I was just re-reading my Angel: First Night hardcover and I really think Stephen Mooney should have been the artist for Aftermath. It would have allowed for some nice continuity with the Kate and Connor stories, since they're the main characters of Aftermath. Plus I really like him as an artist, and feel he deserves better than the fill-in art he did during AtF. It bugs me how the really talented artists like David Messina and Stephen Mooney are being wasted on pointless episode adaptations, while the main Angel title has such underwhelming art. I liked it for what it was. I just had to rid myself of all notions that it was canon and look at it as a professionally created fanfic. That's no reflection on its quality -- I've read fanfics that were better than some of the lesser TV episodes. Yeah, I think the reason I don't hate Aftermath is because it doesn't really matter to me. The canon Angel series ended with AtF #17, so this is just like any other tie-in literature. I can enjoy it, but I don't really care about it because it doesn't "count".
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patxshand
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Post by patxshand on Mar 4, 2009 16:48:59 GMT -5
As much as I disagree with you on the canon status of "Aftermath," Paul, you're spot on about Stephen Mooney. He's an amazing artist and should be working on the main title.
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alycat7
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I don't wanna be this good looking and athletic. We all have crosses to bear - Spike[Mo0:4]
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Post by alycat7 on Mar 4, 2009 18:08:10 GMT -5
I'm glad Aftermath is considered canon. I woulda hated it if the series ended the way #17 did.
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Mar 4, 2009 18:21:24 GMT -5
I'm glad Aftermath is considered canon. I woulda hated it if the series ended the way #17 did. Why? I found it quite a satisfying conclusion. Cordelia, Wesley, and Fred are all referenced, while Gunn and Illyria are granted hope for redemption. Plus Angel goes back to his roots as a private investigator ( love that last page!). The only thing which really bothers me is the unanswered question of what happened to W&H, but maybe that was deliberately ambiguous?
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Post by Wyndam on Mar 4, 2009 22:32:32 GMT -5
I agree, Pat and Paul. I think Stephen would be great as a long term interior artist. Maybe he will be starting #25+? "Not Fade Away" will be done by then. That'd be awesome if he came on full time. Love his art.
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Post by VampSlayer on Mar 4, 2009 22:33:08 GMT -5
Just read the issue... Not too fond of this issue.
None of the drawings looked like the characters. Kate never, not once, looked like herself. And Angel, I think, only looked like himself in like two, or three parts. Kate acted nothing like herself. I know she has been through some changes, but we just saw he is After the Fall: First Night, and her personality was totally different. Kate randomly offeres Angel a church... Stupid. And is it me, or does Kate's hair look really poofy? xD We all of a sudden saw a awoken Gunn driving in a car with Illyria next to him. I take it she is still protecting him from the lords.... This story line just doesn't seem right... Angel, at the beginning, was saying stuff that I could never picture him saying. -_- Also, Connor didn't look like himself either.
Well, I am done basking Aftermath... For now. xD I really hope the story can improve. Ill rate it four stars out of ten for now. **** Sorry, Aftermath.
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patxshand
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Post by patxshand on Mar 5, 2009 0:26:59 GMT -5
Four stars out of what? That's usually either a good or perfect rating ahah.
About the Gunn/Illyria scene, #23 will explain how they got to that point.
And I thought Kate's hair looks more... stringy than poofy. Like, you can see how every strand (or long weird spike) goes into her scalp. I definitely think the artist flubbed on her character design, and hope that improves a bit down the line. I'm actually excited to see his Gwen, because his style is very conventional comic book, and she's always been more of an overtly comicesque character than everyone else.
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Post by underworld on Mar 5, 2009 1:58:32 GMT -5
I thought the issue was okay, but not great. Though to be honest, following on from After The Fall was always going to be pretty hard in my opinion as Brian did such a great job with it.
Good: I quite like the concept of Angel going back to the drawing board. Back to square one, so to speak. It presents new opportunities for the story to go off in different directions. And the concept of there being mystical fall out in L.A. is a pretty good set up. I like the idea of Kate coming back into it. Always thought she was an under used character. Loved the "Angel love" from the general public. Very funny
Bad: The art overall wasn't terrible, but the likeness of Angel was laughable. When did he become Eur-Asian? The voices - again especially Angel just didn't ring true. Like most of the other commentators here the line "I've redeemed my past" just didn't fit with how we know Angel perceives his past and how he deals with it. Also Angel turning his back on Kate when she was being attacked was completely out of character. And why does Kate now look like a slayer.
Still, despite the qualms I'll be sticking with it to see where the story goes
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Malsad
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Post by Malsad on Mar 5, 2009 11:03:13 GMT -5
the art was deplorable i thought Asian i thought kate was nina when she was wearing that dress and conner was just ugly
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