Spiked
Potential Slayer
sneezure[Mo0:37]
Posts: 144
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Post by Spiked on Mar 20, 2009 21:36:01 GMT -5
Okay, I am still freaking out over this episode, so don't be surprised if none of this makes any sense! GYAAAAH!
Favorite character: Ooh, I liked Echo's super badass Faith-like personality at the end. And I'm really starting to fall in love with Paul. Least favorite character: I liked them all...well, except for Sierra's handler, but you were supposed to hate him. Instead, I'll just go with Dewitt, not because I don't like her, but because she mumbles too much and it's hard to hear her sometimes. Favorite scene: Umm, all of it? Let me think...oh, both of the main fight scenes involving Actives were pretty awesome. My jaw dropped to the floor when Mellie started kicking Sierra's handler's ass all of a sudden after Dewitt gave her the code, and the scene with Echo and Paul was just so cool. Oh, and, of course, all of Paul's shirtless scenes...YUMMMM. Least favorite scene: Erm, the commercials? I loved it all! Biggest surprise: Sierra's handler trying to rape her and Mellie turning out to be an Active. I seriously yelled, "WHAT!" out loud both times. Thing you saw coming a mile away: Paul going to the internet mogul's house. Then again, that's because I watched the preview before, so... Thoughts on Echo's personality: Her Rachel personality was funny (I was laughing so hard when she pointed at the bed and yelled, "PORN!"), but the one she had when she went to meet Paul at the end was just so freaking awesome. Question you want answered most: WHO THE HELL IS MESSING WITH THE MIND WIPES?! Also, why isn't Paul in my bed right now?! Favorite line: The guy on the street talking about hiring a guy to hook up with to see what it's like and his wife looking at him like, "O.o" the whole time. Did you enjoy this episode more than the prior one?: Do I even have to answer that? YES TIMES INFINITY. It was also better than pretty much everything that's been on TV since the Angel finale
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Post by hitnrun017 on Mar 20, 2009 21:39:32 GMT -5
I'm still amazed that there are Dollhouse's around the world, that is such a great concept. The inside man/woman is what interests me most though, I want to know who it is! We know Topher made the imprint, he could of easily snuck it in, maybe he doesn't love his work as much as it seems... But we also know that he completely ditched the imprint to go talk to Boyd, could that have been enough time for someone to change something? Was Boyd distracting Topher? Finally! We can speculate about plot points!
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Mar 20, 2009 22:53:37 GMT -5
I wasn't that surprised by either of this episode's Big Reveals... that there are many Dollhouses, and that Mellie is an undercover Active. I theorized the first, and I pretty much knew the second because it's the same fake-out they used with Enver Gjokaj. ("Oh, we had to write November out of the show, but we kept Miracle Laurie on as this new character." Riiiight.)
Oh, and I said Mellie's line ("you kissed him?") about three seconds before she did, but that just goes to prove that I am now fully logged in to this new Jossworld.
(I want more of Mellie wearing just a long shirt, and more of Topher's assistant Ivy in general. Where does JW find all these gorgeous women?)
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Post by wenxina on Mar 20, 2009 23:44:17 GMT -5
Even with all the amazing rave reviews about this episode, I was hesitant. Yeah, I've heard the "Wait till ep 6" line time and again, but I never gave too much thought to it. Afterall, what exactly could be so amazing about a mid-season episode? Guess I'm glad to be a fool since this was absolutely the best episode of the show yet.
The man on the street interviews were okay... I liked how they set up the public perception of the urban legend, but as far as I see it right now, they served as nice bookends. Like the very attractive expensive kind. But they don't do too much, other than keep a book/story up.
Favorite twist would be Mellie being a sleeper Active. Kinda figured it out in the scene with the surveillance cameras... it just seemed like they were paying more attention to her than Ballard. It's interesting how her imprinted character can be over-ridden by a trigger. It's also seriously ironic that Ballard's looking for Caroline to bust open the Dollhouse when he's got a Doll across the hallway, who's seemingly in love with him. And hey, his man reaction to her would suggest that he finds her quite pleasing. And hey, she's amazingly attractive. But this may be the last time I take Joss' word for anything. I bought his story about not having room for the November character right now, and while I think it may be true that there wasn't space for her in the earlier episodes to do what he wanted with the character, I guess he kept elements of her character intact.
Saw the Sierra/Handler twist coming a mile away, but it was handled (pun intended) very well. I liked how Boyd's character, despite minimal face time made such an impression. The rape/engagement comparisons were quite unsettling, but it's been put out before. But that's probably where the "bookends" come in nicely, with the various opinions as to what being a Doll entails. Lots of gray area to explore, and it's quite fascinating as a morality play. Wonder how many literary articles we're gonna see about this subject matter in the near future. Seems that just about any Whedonverse creation is deserving of academic study these days.
The inside man is an intriguing mystery. As far as we know right now, it's not Alpha, if what Echo told Ballard is true. I don't see a reason for Alpha to lie, so I'll take Echo's word for it right now. The inner workings of the Dollhouse continue to hold my interest. It's quite clear that DeWitt really cares about her Actives; a fact remotely alluded to in her regard for Echo's abilities to adapt in the past, but confirmed here by a couple of things. Firstly, her strong reaction to Sierra's rape by her Handler is palpable... she had the man killed in a seriously twisted and yet deliciously ironic way. Using a sleeper Active to overpower the bastard was poetic justice. Secondly, despite the fact that going public to the other Dollhouses about Sierra's Handler will tarnish her reputation, she's willing to go ahead with it to prevent any more such incidents from occurring.
Damn Joss and his final 5-minute sentimental montage. Juxtaposing Sierra and Victor's budding romance (complete with kinda happy music) with the fulfillment of "Porn Man"'s fantasy is quite unsettling for me. What further unsettles me is how sympathetic I felt for the lonely billionaire, despite the fact that he is "using" a person to get what he wants. It's so hard to be completely objective about this, since I felt nothing but revulsion for Sierra's Handler. Both are "wrong", but is one even more so? Does paying make it right? Or does the consent of the imprinted Doll make it better? Does the "volunteer" know what they're consenting to when they sign on the dotted line? Does that pre-existing consent make it okay? And even so, where do you draw the line for proper consent, since at least in the case of Caroline, she was desperate for a way out. If a decision is made based on desperation, rather than real choice, is it really a decision? Just things that I've been pondering about.
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alycat7
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
I don't wanna be this good looking and athletic. We all have crosses to bear - Spike[Mo0:4]
Posts: 752
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Post by alycat7 on Mar 21, 2009 0:47:15 GMT -5
This episode was worth the hype. The fight scene is the best out of any buffy, angel, and firefly fight.
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Iceeh★
Bad Ass Wicca
Also, Angels.
Somewhere, along in the bitterness.[Mo0:7]
Posts: 2,298
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Post by Iceeh★ on Mar 21, 2009 1:22:12 GMT -5
HOLY CRAP! This show has surpassed my wildest expectations! I'm still in too much awe of the amazingness of it to form a coherent post! Mellie has been my favorite character ever since I knew her as lasagna lady, and now I love her even more! <3
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Mar 21, 2009 8:24:00 GMT -5
But this may be the last time I take Joss' word for anything. I bought his story about not having room for the November character right now, and while I think it may be true that there wasn't space for her in the earlier episodes to do what he wanted with the character, I guess he kept elements of her character intact. I think both Victor and November's status as dolls was leaked prematurely... either accidentally, or because the writers decided after the fact that they wanted their identities to be surprises. So they concocted this story for both of them about how they were originally going to be dolls, but that element was written out. Saw the Sierra/Handler twist coming a mile away, but it was handled (pun intended) very well. It took me by surprise. I'm still not entirely sure how Boyd figured it out. The inside man is an intriguing mystery. As far as we know right now, it's not Alpha, if what Echo told Ballard is true. I don't see a reason for Alpha to lie, so I'll take Echo's word for it right now. Is there an inside man, or is this a lie they fed Ballard so he'd believe the things Echo is telling him? Is Adelle using Echo as a "Deep Throat" (in the Watergate sense, not the porn sense... on this mission at least) to manipulate him? Wouldn't Echo have been wearing a wire on a mission this important, so the Dollhouse people could monitor what they said to each other? The only people who would be able to tamper with a personality imprint would be Topher, Alpha, or Ivy, as far as we know. (Or the tech person at any of the other 20 Dollhouses.) Does the "volunteer" know what they're consenting to when they sign on the dotted line? Does that pre-existing consent make it okay? And even so, where do you draw the line for proper consent, since at least in the case of Caroline, she was desperate for a way out. If a decision is made based on desperation, rather than real choice, is it really a decision? Just things that I've been pondering about. I've been wondering about how much the volunteers are told, too. Knowing that Adelle seems to have definite ethical standards (grey as they may be), I think she'd inform volunteers in advance of the kinds of things they'll be doing... having sex with maybe hundreds of people, doing dangerous things that may get them killed before their 5-year term is up. (Still waiting to see what really happens to them after the 5 years. Are there any ex-dolls out there? If so, any memories of the Dollhouse were most likely wiped.)
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Post by wenxina on Mar 21, 2009 8:36:35 GMT -5
I think both Victor and November's status as dolls was leaked prematurely... either accidentally, or because the writers decided after the fact that they wanted their identities to be surprises. So they concocted this story for both of them about how they were originally going to be dolls, but that element was written out. I'm thinking that it was more a product of plot reshuffling. Victor and November were supposed to be Dolls that Echo interacts with quite frequently. Victor's stayed more or less the same, his introduction was very similar to what had been planned originally anyway, and the reveal that he was a Doll was taken from the unaired pilot. Exact scene. It took me by surprise. I'm still not entirely sure how Boyd figured it out. I think it was a hunch, that was proven right. He figured out where the blindspot in the surveillance was, and probably figured out the possible suspects based on a process of elimination; i.e. who had access to that room. Clearly Handlers do... possible a staff room of sorts. Is there an inside man, or is this a lie they fed Ballard so he'd believe the things Echo is telling him? Is Adelle using Echo as a "Deep Throat" (in the Watergate sense, not the porn sense... on this mission at least) to manipulate him? Wouldn't Echo have been wearing a wire on a mission this important, so the Dollhouse people could monitor what they said to each other? No tap needed. Echo wasn't supposed to talk to Ballard. She was just supposed to kill him. But the inside man apparently hacked into Topher's imprint and pretty much programmed her to give Ballard the information. It could be more manipulation on Adelle's part, but right now, it's got a huge mystery sign on it. The hacking into the imprint was kinda given away by the camera focus on the "tape" when Topher pulled it out after his conversation with Boyd. Typical way of emphasizing that something was up with it. I remember thinking that maybe someone had switched the tape... and hey, close enough; it was tampered with.
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Maggie
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 48
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Post by Maggie on Mar 21, 2009 11:20:08 GMT -5
Am new to the forum -- Hi!
This episode brings me out of lurking mode. Am so ecstatically happen that we get genuine, authentic, 100%, Whedon TV again.
I'm thinking Adele is the inside mole. Whether that's the case or not, she's playing a deep game and I can't wait to watch it unfold.
And the Dollhouse as pleasure service is a distraction?
Want. More. Now.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Mar 21, 2009 11:24:10 GMT -5
Hey! Welcome to the forum. And the Dollhouse as pleasure service is a distraction? I missed that the first time, but I watched the scene again and this also blew my mind. So the Dollhouse's have a goal? The engagements are creepy enough, and those are just a distraction? Crazy!
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Post by wenxina on Mar 21, 2009 11:30:00 GMT -5
Well, there was this one guy in one of the man on the street interviews that went on about the evils of the corporate world, something about wait until they tell you what to watch/buy/etc. Didn't Joss say awhile back that he's lately been infatuated with "man against corporation" plotlines? But it's definitely intriguing. So... 7 more eps to go before the big finale... I've my digits crossed! Kinda want to know why Ballard is so obsessed with the Dollhouse. My boyfriend (who's only watched the last 2 eps) commented immediately upon watching last night's ep that Ballard seems to have some kind of personal beef with the Dollhouse. I know it's been said before that we won't go there this season, but it's a stumper.
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●B E N
Rogue Demon Hunter
♥ Goodness Gracious ♥
Crazy Echo[Mo0:4]
Posts: 454
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Post by ●B E N on Mar 21, 2009 12:44:02 GMT -5
This episode was worth the hype. The fight scene is the best out of any buffy, angel, and firefly fight. I wouldnt go that far lol Do you recall the Faith/Angelus/The Beast fight? the Buffy/Faith fight? or the Glory/Buffy final fight?! Those were truly amazing! Anyway yeah the fight scene was pretty awesome. However, the series needs more Ivy and more shirtless Victor/Paul.
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Post by Wyndam on Mar 21, 2009 13:45:26 GMT -5
Finally got to sit down and watch this episode. I had to watch the Battlestar finale last night (still recovering from that), but this episode was all sorts of awesome.
Favorite character: Paul. This was his episode through and through. I've liked his character from the start (probably more because I think Tahmoh is great and Helo is one of my favorite Battlestar characters), and it was great to see Paul (and Tahmoh) finally get to do his thing and get some answers.
Least favorite character: Tanaka, probably. He's unlikable on purpose though. Even though Paul is now suspended, I hope we see Tanaka again down the line.
Favorite scene: The Paul/Echo fight scene and the scene where Mellie is activated and kills Sierra's handler.
Least favorite scene: There weren't any bad scenes, but since I have to choose the one I liked the least, maybe the scene where Ballard twists Tanaka's arm? Seemed a little too soon for Ballard to attack the guy, despite it being an awesome moment.
Biggest surprise: That there is an "inside man" working against the Dollhouse. Sierra's handler being the rapist was pretty surprising as well.
Thing you saw coming a mile away: Mellie being a doll, but the scene where she was "activated" was so incredible, and I can't wait to see what this does to Paul when he finds out.
Thoughts on Echo's personality: Didn't see much of them this week, since this was a Paul centric episode, but both were great. Her Rebecca personality shouting out porn was hilarious and her badass personality at the end gave us an incredible fight scene and raised some of the biggest questions the series has given us yet.
Question you want answered most: Who is the "inside man"?
Did you enjoy this episode more than the prior one?: Most definitely, yes. Best episode of the series so far, and right up there with some Lost, 24, Battlestar Galactica and Supernatural episodes as some of the best TV this season.
Also, I just wanna say that Patton Oswalt was fantastic in this episode. He has been good on The Unites States of Tara on Showtime this year as well, so I really hope to see more of him on TV soon.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Mar 21, 2009 14:06:29 GMT -5
Favorite character: I liked them all this episode. Victor probably stands out the most though. I really felt bad for him, loved when he said Sierra makes him feel "better". Mellie, Paul, Echo and Adelle were great too. Least favorite character: Sierra's Handler... John I think? There wasn't a bad character this episode, they all were great. Favorite scene: The ending montage, Mellie getting activated, Echo/Victor dynamic, reporter interviews, everything else. Least favorite scene: Can't think of one. Biggest surprise: The inside man, over 20 Dollhouse's, Mellie getting activated. Thing you saw coming a mile away: Sierra's Handler being the rapist. Thoughts on Echo's personality: Very funny and very badass. Wasn't enough time to actually care about them. Question you want answered most: What is the Dollhouse's ultimate goal? Did you enjoy this episode more than the prior one?: Yes, probably liked it more than the five combined.
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BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Mar 21, 2009 14:53:07 GMT -5
Crap! I thought I already posted my review. I'm going to go out of order of events, I hope you guys don't mind. I was so worried about Mellie. And I just learned that she's a "Sleeper Doll" from Mikey, I guess I didn't catch that during the episode. No one could have seen that coming. I hated Sierra's handler right from the very beginning, I new he was bad news. I don't like the actor either, Smart House sucked! lmao. Mellie was whoopin' some butt. Very cool. And Echo as well, nice to see a little fight in her this time. I'm starting to warm up to Victor. His Russian persona just really annoyed me. I'm not so sure of what to think about Topher. He seems to cocky. I'm trying to think of what he would do if Alpha broke in the lab with him and Claire inside. Would he try and protect Claire or would he whine and hide under a desk. I keep on getting a selfish vibe from him. Topher's assistant is back. Very cool, she's hot (hotter than Sierra. IMO). There are more Dollhouses? Jeez! I don't get why they would be everywhere when they cost so much to log out a Doll. You know? It? I wouldn't expect a lot of people to be interested. I loved Echo when she said "Porn!", that whole scene was funny.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Mar 21, 2009 15:38:41 GMT -5
No tap needed. Echo wasn't supposed to talk to Ballard. She was just supposed to kill him. But the inside man apparently hacked into Topher's imprint and pretty much programmed her to give Ballard the information. It could be more manipulation on Adelle's part, but right now, it's got a huge mystery sign on it. Hm, maybe I was still so dazed from the fight scene I wasn't paying close enough attention. Weren't Adelle and Laurence talking about this mission afterwards as if everything had gone according to plan? If they wanted to assassinate Ballard, wouldn't it make more sense to have November do it? Or at least have her do it after Echo "failed"? I think Adelle wants Ballard alive for some reason, or he'd have been dead long ago. The fact that she's got three Actives dealing with him (Victor, November, Echo) means that she wants something more from him than to simply eliminate him. Maybe he's her "exit strategy," to quote Laurence? Is he a potential weapon she can use against the Senior Partners if she has to? (And yes, I'm going to call them the "Senior Partners" until I hear something different to call them. )
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Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,069
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Post by Mathieu on Mar 21, 2009 16:53:33 GMT -5
I have to admit it's the first Dollhouse episode that I really enjoyed. This was good TV.
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Iceeh★
Bad Ass Wicca
Also, Angels.
Somewhere, along in the bitterness.[Mo0:7]
Posts: 2,298
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Post by Iceeh★ on Mar 21, 2009 17:27:32 GMT -5
Favorite character: Mellie. She's got so much potential for some great character development, especially now that she's a (sleeper) doll. Plus, hotness! Least favorite character: Sierra's handler. Grgrgr, I was yelling at the TV during that one scene with him and Sierra! Favorite scene: Mellie's activation scene and the badass Paul/Echo fight! Least favorite scene: Hmm, I don't think I have one... Biggest surprise: The fact that there's 20 dollhouses! I was spoilered for pretty much everything else, though. :moody: Thing you saw coming a mile away: Doll!Mellie. Except I didn't think that she was going to be a sleeper doll, that suprised me! Thoughts on Echo's personality: I loved the Rebecca personality! "PORN!!" Question you want answered most: What is the Dollhouse(s) alterior motive? Did you enjoy this episode more than the prior one?: Ch'yeah! It was all sorts of amazing!
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Post by dragonweaver on Mar 21, 2009 17:33:34 GMT -5
Favorite character: It's a tie between Paul & Adelle. Everyone was fantastic, even the creepy guys, but I felt that we really learned more about Paul & Adelle and I finally started to connect to the characters and become invested in where they are going.
Least favorite character: Sierra's handler, but kudos to the actor for really making me hate him and enjoy seeing him getting his butt handed to him by Boyd and then November.
Favorite scene: Plenty of standout scenes, but Mellie being attacked and then activated was just a holy cr@p...that was awesome moment.
Least favorite scene: The whole episode was pretty solid. Although Ballard attacking his superior was kind of stupid, not that the guy didn't deserve it, so if anything I could have lived without seeing that.
Biggest surprise: Dollhouse is a multi-city operation that has a darker purpose beyond just servicing clients. Did not see that plot development coming at all.
Thing you saw coming a mile away: Sierra's Handler being the rapist. I guessed that before the episode even started.
Thoughts on Echo's personality: There wasn't a whole lot of screen dedicated to either persona, but I loved them both. One was sweet & funny while the other was totally kick ass. Also just for the record the first personality was named Rebecca not Rachel.
Question you want answered most: What is the Dollhouse's ultimate goal? Could it have to do with creating assassins (i.e. Mellie/November)?
Did you enjoy this episode more than the prior one?: This is a huge YES. Like others, I felt this episode was epic and a great turning point for the show. Lets hope it can help draw in more viewers next week.
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rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
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Post by rufio on Mar 21, 2009 18:27:49 GMT -5
OK, i'm not even finished watching this episode & I am already blown away. It's episodes like this in the joss-verse (Restless, Once More With Feeling) that show how, to appreciate a great episode in joss's writing, it is wise to watch all the episodes leading up to it. A person cannot just casually watch an episode like restless or once more with feeling and truly see how magnificent it is if they don't know all the story behind it. I'm excited to have a show from joss whedons minds on the air again. I'm officially a fan of Dollhouse. I imagine it will only get better from here!
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