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Post by wenxina on Dec 5, 2010 21:18:54 GMT -5
So, what did the vampires being famous and everyone thinking Slayers were terrorists and people having Twiight's mark have anything to do with anything? That's been explained in chunks over the season. Angel assuming the mantel of Twilight was to rally all the factions that opposed Buffy under one banner. Basically, give her one big enemy to fight, rather than have people coming at her from all angles. It was basically Angel's idea of damage control; of keeping the body count minimal. The ethics of it are sketchy, and I'd rather we not rehash it all over again. All this was supposed to focus Buffy's anger, which apparently was a prerequisite for her ascension.
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richie
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:1]
Posts: 170
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Post by richie on Dec 5, 2010 21:55:42 GMT -5
Tyler Austin "tiewashere" thats a really good question.... how i wish scott would have a Q&A with us...
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Jaz ♀♀
Junior Vampire Slayer
Kisses & Gay Love
'Hey Lezallbefriendsbians!'[Mo0:30]
Posts: 941
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Post by Jaz ♀♀ on Dec 6, 2010 4:20:15 GMT -5
Just read this issue. Mind. Blown.
So much happened...Giles....what will hap.....Willow....OMG....I can't even even finish a sentence......flying alien vagina monsters.
Reading through the previous pages, I too am very very interested with what will happen next for Willow now that her powers are gone.
Agreed. I'm so hoping they find a writer who can do justice to her character and give her amazing stories with great character development and insight. Losing her powers can be a great arc in her overall character. I mean, there is only so much you could do with her if she stayed all "super wicca". Throughout this season she was pretty much unbeatable and unkillable. Keeping her that way, it's very easy for her to become inhuman and unrelateable to readers....but now having all that taken away....wow, I so want to know what's going on in her head and what she's feeling and what she will do next.
Favorite panel: where Willow says "You attacked Mother". Visually there is so much badassness in that. I just loved her facial expression and her pose. I could even hear the badass way of how she said those words. lol. I'm also going to cherish that panel more because it most likely might be the last time we see her with that much power and kicking major monster ass while flying. I will miss seeing those scenes.
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suemey
Common Vampire
no puedo esperar a ver qu? dir? la historia[Mo0:19]
Posts: 65
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Post by suemey on Dec 6, 2010 6:29:07 GMT -5
one thing that i found poetically weird was that jenny calendar died the same way giles did, by having their necks snap by the hand of angel's vessel (i say vessel as in meat suit, because with jenny it was angelus and this time it was twilight)
I would not forgive him if i were buffy but who knows.
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zamolxis
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 210
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Post by zamolxis on Dec 6, 2010 7:11:07 GMT -5
Twilight is stupid.
After Angel snapped Giles neck he should got the Seed, what he was looking for, while Buffy and Xander were in shock. Instead he starts to speak.
Twilight was pretty smart before that, manipulating Angel according to it's will. I wonder what made it so dumb?
Anyway, like AC I want the griffin skinned.
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Post by VampSlayer on Dec 6, 2010 9:36:36 GMT -5
I know Angel didn't actually do this himself, but...
If Buffy ever forgives Angel for ANY of this... I may actually throw all of my respect for her down the Hellmouth.
<.<
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Post by wenxina on Dec 6, 2010 9:49:39 GMT -5
No more Hellmouths, unfortunately. So, I've kinda been wondering about destroying the Seed vs. removing it. In both instances, it's essentially gone. However, removing it causes the world to die, whereas destroying it merely cuts off all magic. Anyone care to give this some thoughtful fanwank, or even textual explanation?
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Dec 6, 2010 9:56:28 GMT -5
I know Angel didn't actually do this himself, but... If Buffy ever forgives Angel for ANY of this... I may actually throw all of my respect for her down the Hellmouth. <.< Depends on whether she ever came to believe what Giles told her about forgiveness in "I Only Have Eyes For You." Whether she'll ever forgive herself may be more on her mind right now. No more Hellmouths, unfortunately. So, I've kinda been wondering about destroying the Seed vs. removing it. In both instances, it's essentially gone. However, removing it causes the world to die, whereas destroying it merely cuts off all magic. Anyone care to give this some thoughtful fanwank, or even textual explanation? As far as we know, Aluwyn's comparison to a cork in a bottle is true. Take the cork out, and the wine will be drunk, or spill, or just evaporate. Break off the cork in the neck of the bottle and the wine remains intact, but you can't get to it.
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Post by VampSlayer on Dec 6, 2010 10:02:24 GMT -5
No more Hellmouths, unfortunately. So, I've kinda been wondering about destroying the Seed vs. removing it. In both instances, it's essentially gone. However, removing it causes the world to die, whereas destroying it merely cuts off all magic. Anyone care to give this some thoughtful fanwank, or even textual explanation? I'm guessing that our world needs the Seed here to survive. (Durr. Obviously.) If the Seed is removed, our world dies. If it's destroyed, the pieces are still there, but the overall Seed isn't intact. Same as our world; Still kicking, but not fully as it was. Fanwank-y enough? xD
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Post by wenxina on Dec 6, 2010 10:05:36 GMT -5
Thanks, AC and VampSlayer. I was thinking along those lines too, and Spike's/Aluwyn's cork analogy is the best explanation there is... but it just seemed like a logical conundrum of sorts.
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Post by Eric on Dec 6, 2010 10:09:54 GMT -5
No more Hellmouths, unfortunately. So, I've kinda been wondering about destroying the Seed vs. removing it. In both instances, it's essentially gone. However, removing it causes the world to die, whereas destroying it merely cuts off all magic. Anyone care to give this some thoughtful fanwank, or even textual explanation? Well, in spite of the name, it's obvious the Seed isn't the actual source of magic, but rather controls the flow of magic into our mortal dimension from demonic/mystical dimensions. Perhaps if the Seed was taken to one of those dimension, the tables would be turned and they'd take something from us. Maybe our life force or life energy, if you will. That would destroy all life and effectively kill our world too. That's all I've got.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Dec 6, 2010 10:27:46 GMT -5
No more Hellmouths, unfortunately. So, I've kinda been wondering about destroying the Seed vs. removing it. In both instances, it's essentially gone. However, removing it causes the world to die, whereas destroying it merely cuts off all magic. Anyone care to give this some thoughtful fanwank, or even textual explanation? I think the wine analogy explains it pretty perfectly. Remove the cork (seed), the bottle (hell) is uncorked and wine (demons, the real pure ones) pour out. Destroy the cork (see), the wine (you get the point) can't come out and the seed can never be removed.
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ligeia
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 192
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Post by ligeia on Dec 6, 2010 10:56:02 GMT -5
I have just read #39, very intense and interesting, since so much things happened. But I have some questions : WHAT exactly did Twilight want ? Eternal sex with Buffy in some sort of heaven ? I guess I missed something here... And WHY did it want whatever it wanted ? And I still don't get the betrayal thing. I know that Scott Allie told it was Buffy betraying herself (which is kinda lame if you ask me, given all the dramatic foreshadowng it got...), but HOW exactly did Buffy betray herself ? I don't get it. You must think I'm pretty stupid, well you're surely right but please, answer me Apart from that, I can't wait to see what happens between Buffy and Willow.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Dec 6, 2010 11:17:31 GMT -5
I am a bit puzzled, though, as to the logic behind exactly what's happening to magic.
Breaking the Seed, Aluwyn says, cuts off our world from all others. That means any magic accessed from outside our world is lost, but any that comes from our world is kept... including any that is intrinsic to a person (Slayer and vampire powers, etc.)
I can understand that witches who call on their powers from outside would lose their magic... but isn't the whole thing with Wicca (at least as portrayed in Buffy) that they get their powers from the Earth (or Earth Mother)? And shouldn't that power originate from inside the "bottle" itself, and not have to get past the "cork"?
Maybe part of Willow's story in season 9 will be finding out how to access true Earth magic, like she was supposed to be doing, instead of relying on flashy magic of the cosmos. After all, a Porsche might go faster and be fun to drive, but a beat-up old Buick will also get you where you need to go.
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Post by angeliclestat on Dec 6, 2010 11:24:22 GMT -5
I have just read #39, very intense and interesting, since so much things happened. But I have some questions : WHAT exactly did Twilight want ? Eternal sex with Buffy in some sort of heaven ? I guess I missed something here... And WHY did it want whatever it wanted ? Your guess is as good as anyone else's lol. As far as I can make out Twilight (the lion thing) wanted the 'best vampire' and 'best slayer' to have sex and give birth to the new dimension also called Twilight. This dimension would replace Earth. Or something. I don't know. I feel confused even typing this. Not at all - there was a lot that was left unclear and unexplained.
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ligeia
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 192
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Post by ligeia on Dec 6, 2010 11:45:56 GMT -5
Thanks for answering and comforting me
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richie
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:1]
Posts: 170
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Post by richie on Dec 6, 2010 17:50:37 GMT -5
ligeia: thats my understanding... so feel free to correct me.... but i think that when the spell went off, buffy fufilled the needs to make twilight possible... i know that the universe said that when they frist met was ment to be... well i dont believe that... when buffy broke the lineage of the slayers she sent everything in motion.... so angel, the champion... i think that this was the shanshuu... this is the ultimate apocalipse... angel had the pivotal role.... and they frak.... and created a new universe... what it wants? well i think all that the griffon wanted was buffy and angel go to fufill their roles as gods and creator of their universe... since buffy negleted it, well it got raged and was going to claim what it thinks it deserves it... and the seed was the way to make the twilight the best place ever....
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Post by Emmie on Dec 7, 2010 3:21:55 GMT -5
No more Hellmouths, unfortunately. So, I've kinda been wondering about destroying the Seed vs. removing it. In both instances, it's essentially gone. However, removing it causes the world to die, whereas destroying it merely cuts off all magic. Anyone care to give this some thoughtful fanwank, or even textual explanation? As far as we know, Aluwyn's comparison to a cork in a bottle is true. Take the cork out, and the wine will be drunk, or spill, or just evaporate. Break off the cork in the neck of the bottle and the wine remains intact, but you can't get to it. Hmm. I guess in a figurative sense yeah the cork is stuck. But taken literally (which I imagine it's not meant to be), one can always cut through the glass to get to the wine.
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Shane
Potential Slayer
I saw a baby today.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 135
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Post by Shane on Dec 7, 2010 5:40:29 GMT -5
Reactions: pretty much all emotions out there. Giles. Now I feel bad for getting with the way they were him. The way his eyes looked so empty and and the way his body was contorted made me feel really . He just seemed to have been discarded like such a redshirt and I want to see some *immediate* consequences because I don't think I can be this until Season 9 comes around. But I think we'll see Giles in flashbacks because he and Faith had some secret plans which will probably unfold next season. Still, I wish I could just go to and wake up to find Giles alive. Faith was pretty awesome. I liked how she took charge and at all the and . She them and then she them. So . Giles taught her well. I didn't like the end of magic because it means no more . But losing magic made Willow so that made me ;D. But then she started and that reminded me of and I was again. I'm Kennedy is there for her. And whatever happened to the General? Such a mislead! And Dawn seems to be safe too. Xander was loyal throughout. Good. Now I find it quite funny how the General tried to turn into . ! !!!What's wrong with Buffy, though? It seems she still thinks she can "save" "Angel". . will have a long way back now. And the Scoobies will also be at Buffy so there won't be any anytime soon. I'm actually a little about all this because it could lead to some very interesting stories. Angel. For the first time I'm actually starting to hate Angel. I never really judged him on that scale before - he seemed to be getting interesting developments and that was enough. But again he did something terrible while under some sort of influence and is when he realises what he's done. Nothing against , but I really hope Buffy doesn't get all :-*with him just because he has back into regular Angel. After asked about his loyalty to Buffy I've been very interested in knowing what Angel's motivation was but I've lost interest in that now. Even his remark to Giles in this issue felt kinda . Can we please just see the consequences already? Spike didn't get as much story as I wanted but at least he wasn't destroyed as a character. I was after Giles' death but then Spike came into the picture and he the scary demon and that made me . And what's with the scary demon anyway? Why does it look like that? 'Shipping in general seems to have taken a backseat this season. has suffered a huge setback and while there were at both and Bander, they weren't really explored. Probably for the best 'cause Joss isn't in a very good mood right now and seems to be pretty on the whole matter. But maybe it's best if just stay about this. The art was brilliant. I've always thought Jeanty was a great fit for Buffy but I never thought he'd be this good. He really outdid my expectations, especially with the dying Slayers and the three similar looking panels of dead Giles. I also think it was a good artistic choice to not have anyone crying over Giles in this issue but I'm not sure why. It suffices to say that for the first time in over two years I'll be buying his cover as well. Overall, a good issue. I'm about all that happened but I'm because it will lead to more interesting stories. P.S. The lion reminded me of Aslan at the end of the first Narnia movie. Probably not Jeanty's intention though.
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Dec 7, 2010 9:03:19 GMT -5
So, what did the vampires being famous and everyone thinking Slayers were terrorists and people having Twiight's mark have anything to do with anything? That's been explained in chunks over the season. Angel assuming the mantel of Twilight was to rally all the factions that opposed Buffy under one banner. Basically, give her one big enemy to fight, rather than have people coming at her from all angles. It was basically Angel's idea of damage control; of keeping the body count minimal. The ethics of it are sketchy, and I'd rather we not rehash it all over again. All this was supposed to focus Buffy's anger, which apparently was a prerequisite for her ascension. I'm sorry, but that's REALLY a load of bull. And for someone who takes time to read these issues, its sad that I didn't pick up on that at all. Twilight to me just seemed super evil. Dumb, sloppy writing.
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