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Post by AndrewCrossett on May 6, 2010 16:20:52 GMT -5
Guild #2 was a week late here in New York too, but Buffy came in on time. Thank God. Of all the issues to get delayed...
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galoshes
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 7
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Post by galoshes on May 6, 2010 17:17:16 GMT -5
Wow. Let's all write Angel off before the end. I'm cool with opinions and speculation, but people seem to be waaaaay too into the hopelessness of a character who's proven himself time and time again.
If Angel is redeemable after 35, then shouldn't we wait? I think he took a step towards redemption, but has yet to achieve it. We are all forgetting the key role that time travel, dreams and magic have played in this season. Perhaps, like one person suggested, something has happened in LA that Angel is trying to prevent; who knows?
I really think Joss was going for the big payoff in the final arc, so that the otherwise stringy season will all fall in place, like Season 6. Honestly, in a season that seemed to be going nowhere, it ended with a bang. You had to wait until Willow went dark to realize that the "Big Bad" wasn't The Trio, but each character's self-obsession and inability to communicate. The only one who tried hard enough to communicate, and thus ended up as the true (if not flawed) hero of the season, was Xander.
Honestly, could anyone see that coming until it did?
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nmcil
Common Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 54
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Post by nmcil on May 6, 2010 19:09:08 GMT -5
They should of had a warning on issue #1, "Nothing you read from this point on will make the slightest bit of sense until the VERY LAST ARC 4 YEARS LATER. Enjoy!" kaan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NICE
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rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
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Post by rufio on May 6, 2010 19:24:59 GMT -5
I loved this issue! I haven't enjoyed an issue like this in awhile! In the last issue, I wasn't really feeling what was going on with Buffy&Angel ascending into another reality or whatever (and while the sex didn't bother me-the dialogue was stupid at points) , but in this issue- I feel like it made more sense and it felt more right. Also, it reminded me why I love buffy-- she gave up paradise with her true love to save her friends&family!! Yes, BUFFY! Also, Spike stepping in was nice and unexpected (on my part @ least)... I'm excited again for season 8 and can't wait to see where it's all leading!!
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Post by hitnrun017 on May 6, 2010 20:12:48 GMT -5
Did anyone else almost completely miss the final page because of the ad? Figured the feet would be a major cliffhanger ala The Long Way Home Pt. 3. Wasn't until a few minutes later that I turned the page to read the Slay the Critics section that I saw Spike. Fail.
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on May 6, 2010 20:17:55 GMT -5
Brad Meltzer's got some interesting tweets going on in his Q&A. These two particularly caught my eye:
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Post by AndrewCrossett on May 6, 2010 20:49:09 GMT -5
Brad Meltzer's got some interesting tweets going on in his Q&A. My favorite: WIN! (And no, that wasn't my question. I don't even have a Twitter account.) I also liked his hint that Spike's vehicle may indeed be a time machine, and that Angel might be about to receive a beat-down from him. And I really hope there's reasoning behind that "Can't say he killed the 206 Slayers" remark aside from "he wasn't himself." And his comment that Angel's decision to follow Buffy "had power" makes me think I'm right in my suspicion that Twilight lost its hold on him at that point and he is now at least on the right track to atone for what he's done.
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Post by drywallman on May 6, 2010 20:55:14 GMT -5
How could Spike give Angel a beat-down? He doesn't have nearly that kind of power.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on May 6, 2010 21:01:18 GMT -5
How could Spike give Angel a beat-down? He doesn't have nearly that kind of power. We don't know how much power Spike has, and besides: will the Universe really let Angel and Buffy keep their sweet super-powers in light of what they're doing? He wasn't saying the beating was going to come right away, and in fact only hinted that it might happen at all. I'd certainly like to see it.
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Post by drywallman on May 6, 2010 21:21:06 GMT -5
Suping up Buffy and Angel was bad enough, I really hope they don't have Spike show up with uber powers too. That would feel too much like Spike is the deux ex machina, who shows up with the power, the answers and to steal Buffy's attentions.
Also, just for once it would be nice if Xander could give the beat down. Angel and Spike used him as a punching bad often enough on the show, it would be sweet if just once he got some payback. Its probably a pipe dream though.
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Post by krazyxxxdj on May 7, 2010 2:44:37 GMT -5
I have a really cool sister, who knew i would be stuck at work and finals all week, and went and got the issue for me. Better late than never!
Thank you kamw30 for the early summary!
As for the issue, I don't know what to think. I still don't understand this Twilight nonsense. It's a new Utopia, a new reality for the world? Are they trying to say that the fate of the evolution of this universe rests on 1 ultra Vamp and 1 ultra Slayer? Is this something just for the two of them? But obviously not, as the old demons are back on Earth... this is just too far a stretch for me, even in the Jossverse. Even if Buffy did create a "new race" when they did the spell, that's all she did...it wasn't much of an "evolution" per se. ahh..headache... I hope it's explained more. I could even have swallowed this if they had dropped the "evolution" theme and just gone with a classic "you broke a rule and now the orcs come" line.
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Kratos
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:15]
Posts: 190
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Post by Kratos on May 7, 2010 3:11:37 GMT -5
I'd certainly like to see it. I agree, power is relative in the Buffyverse. The hero/heroine that has a just cause is fighting for the right reasons is often shown to prevail in the end, regardless if their enemies are 'that' much more powerful. And i think the end of issue35 showed that Buffy and Angel aren't invincible, they might not have gotten hurt but they were struggeling with the many uberdemons and keeping everyone safe. It was Spike's verhicle that easily ended the battle, crashing into the demons. And yeah, it's been a long time coming. I have yet to see anyone knock some sense into this a-hole which he so rightly deserves. I would have loved it if it had been Willow,Xander or hell even Satsu but so far nothing. So yeah i hope that since Spike seems to have the knowledge now, he'll also have a way to take down Angel a couple of notches, it's the least of what that bastard deserves. Also, just for once it would be nice if Xander could give the beat down. Angel and Spike used him as a punching bad often enough on the show, it would be sweet if just once he got some payback. Its probably a pipe dream though. I think you got that backwards, Angel might have used Xander as a punchingbag plenty. But between Spike and Xander, Spike was equally used as a punchingbag by Xander when he was chipped. I think Xander will get payback on Angel through words and sometimes words can be much more hurtfull then physical pain.
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alex_krycek
Rogue Demon Hunter
keeper of the x-files
sorry, i just remembered seeing king ralph[Mo0:30]
Posts: 484
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Post by alex_krycek on May 7, 2010 8:52:06 GMT -5
Suping up Buffy and Angel was bad enough, I really hope they don't have Spike show up with uber powers too. That would feel too much like Spike is the deux ex machina, who shows up with the power, the answers and to steal Buffy's attentions. Also, just for once it would be nice if Xander could give the beat down. Angel and Spike used him as a punching bad often enough on the show, it would be sweet if just once he got some payback. Its probably a pipe dream though. i'd love to see xander just stake angel and walk away. i don't think there is anyway xander could forgive buffy if she lets angel slide on this. xander should stake him, tell buffy that he's done with her (kinda like satsu), and leave. then he should go be satsu's watcher, and the two of them could set up shop in new zealand or something. maybe season nine could be about mending the pain between xander & buffy.
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Marcos
Novice Witch
Define "human".[Mo0:30]
Posts: 210
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Post by Marcos on May 7, 2010 11:50:49 GMT -5
I felt so weird after reading this issue. It had amazing moments but it felt utterly off with Angel all that Twilight talk. Then I read Emmie's review (as I always do. big fan ) and it cleared my impressions. First I thought that they were trying to convince us that Angel's actions are nothing more than a "greater good" mentality, and that he's not a monster he's been showing, and that he's himself. But that's bulls**, of course. Angel renounced the "higher purposes" in season 2, just like Buffy always found her way around the prophecies. He is NOT destiny's bitch. So there's NO WAY he is in his clear mind here. But then I realized that this has already been explained: It got pretty clear, in ish 34, that the Universe acted upon Buffy's choices. Safe to say that "it" also took the helm of Angel's actions, before season 8 even began. Just like Angelus was about having his soul taken, Twangel is about having his mind taken. The universe gave him powers, so it's logical to believe the Universe took his free will (just as it took his curse - at least while he was having sweet space!sex) and his vampire limitations (sunlight). The irony is that Angel is, once again, a puppet. This time, it's the inside that got twisted. So, and that's when I disagree with Emmie, IMO Angel is not off-character. He's other character, like as Angelus (only lamer). He's still under influence from the Universe. Buffy got free from it faster because she wasn't being controlled for that long, and maybe because she was actually seeing her friends and sister dying in front of her, while Angel couldn't actually SEE Connor suffering from it. In the Twilight heaven, it wasn't Angel talking. It was the Universe. The narrative makes sense. But it is poor writing in the sense that they took an amazing character and made him a puppet. He lost the helm before for Angelus, but this time he's been controlled by outer, higher forces and prophecies. It goes against the existentialism and humanism both shows always embraced. Sure, Buffy's role in ish 35 is totally pro-free will (which makes the season pro-free will) but, as Emmie said so perfectly, you can't take a character like Angel, make him a symbol of everything he always resisted (lose the power over himself), just so Buffy can have her empowering moment. So, it's not that they're writing Angel wrong. They're not writing Angel. period. It's three different beings: Angel, Angelus (inner-demon influence) and Twangel (outer-universe influence). I hope Angel starts regaining his free-will after he renounced Twilight with Buffy. But I also hope that he suffers a lot from it - at least as much as he suffers from Angelus past crimes.
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richie
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:1]
Posts: 170
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Post by richie on May 7, 2010 13:18:53 GMT -5
Ok, I read the issue, and my first impression was: Bull**** I don’t think angel would be like that… Not at all… I think it’s great to have Buffy back, but angel is part of this verse, so he should be respected. Connor is part of buffyverse, so does Illyria. Cause they all part of the same verse. So if they want to tell a history that involves angel, they have to respect “his” verse. And ignoring Connor, and the rest it’s disrespect to us. I was reading the shameful angel’s attempt to be with Buffy in twilight and all I felt was, disgust. So unless they do the “it wasn’t angel, it was a brainwashed angel á la Cordelia season 4” kind thing, ill be disappointed with joss. If he wants to tell a history, ok, he can kill everyone, but don’t insult our intelligence. So, since joss has a great credit with me, I reached the following conclusion: There universe being the big bad it’s not ok… for me, it was a natural selection the happened. Buffy and angel evolved to be a new kind, and angel for be a vampire, wasn’t able to think. He was just following the instinct of the new kind. And since women have a more reason thing, Buffy was able, with the help of the vision of her friends dying, to get out of this state of instinct. And angel’s just got, when he saw that Buffy was doing the right thing. So he came into senses and frees himself from the power of this “new kind”! And that’s will result in the lost of the powers for both. The thing is… angel did a really bad thing, and knowing him he would probably punishes himself for letting the possibility of Connor dies happens. But I don’t think we’ll see it cause it’s a Buffy comic, so, no angel reaction. Unless he become a part of season 9, but hey, he have his own comic…. And this probably isn’t happening in there….( I stopped reading angel after the “aftermath fiasco”, but someday I’ll read)…
That’s the conclusion I got from now on…. And what’s to wait for the rest of the season? They going back in time, and save the day? With spike’s help? I really want to see joss arc, but I’m not looking forward… I can totally wait more than 2 months to read it.
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Post by henzINNIT on May 7, 2010 13:19:59 GMT -5
Ehhhhhh. For brief moments I was into this, but pretty much any thought on it drags me back into "what the fuck has Joss done?" territory. Maybe everything will look differently when this wraps up (in another 6 months *sigh*)
Angel doesn't ring true at all and it makes me sad. "Fuck the world, I just want my girlfriend and me to be 2gether 4eva!!!11" isn't the guy we watched develop for 5 years on his own show. He moved on, found his own family and had a son. Can't wait to see how Spike is shoe-horned into this packed roster, just hope those scary, tiny hands aren't a new trait lol
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Post by VampSlayer on May 7, 2010 17:04:36 GMT -5
Just got my copy. -Takes deep breath- Okay, I am ready. -Reads-
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angeluffy
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 21
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Post by angeluffy on May 7, 2010 18:51:47 GMT -5
I'm officially pissed off. I can't take pod!Angel anymore. What a lame excuse for an Angel he is!! He decided to boreanaze his behavior! Oh, please! What is Joss thinking destroying this character? I don't see anything redeemable about Twilight/Angel before, now or in any following issue. Joss will have to have a really good stunt to explain all of this... if he will ever... because it doesn't seem like it. He still killed a lot of people so he'd get Buffy to Twilight. He doesn't care of earth, not even if his son and friends are still there. He didn't decide to leave Twilight for himself because it was the right thing to do AFTER he knew what their sexcapades caused. He wants the WORLD TO END for god's sake! Is this the same guy that didn't leave Jasmine create a happy world with the price of ONLY SOME TWELVE SOULS/DAY so WE COULD CHOSE OUR FATE. Now he decided the fate of the World was his to toy with. Let's face, Jasmine's way is waaaaaaaaaaaay better than Twangel! Leaving on his own was maybe the first step to his redemption in this case. He left because Buffy was leaving. Well, this leave me with the impression that Angel is the guy to be guided in a leash instead of guide... and that is not a Hero, a Champion... or even something the right guy would do!
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Post by AndrewCrossett on May 7, 2010 19:05:22 GMT -5
Here's the next installment of Behind Season 8 on CBR. An interview with Brad Meltzer. It's pretty interesting, but I just don't get this statement: I'm sorry, but allowing humanity to be destroyed so you can be happy is pretty much the definition of cold and uncaring. Is he claiming that this is a debatable point, and the rightness or wrongness of total human genocide is a matter of one's point of view? God, I really hope Joss doesn't write the rest of the season that way.
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on May 7, 2010 19:13:46 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't understand that line at all. It doesn't sound like Angel at all, so I don't know how he could say that really. It's gonna be a long wait until we know how Angel is dealt with
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