The Twilight Symbol and its meaning

[AndrewCrossett]

6. AndrewCrossett: Does the Twilight symbol hold any clues as to what's really going on, and if so, are they clues we would be able to figure out based on what we already know?

Georges: Yes. Maybe.

Sounds like a worthy topic of discussion to me. Anyone have any ideas?

I mentioned somewhere that turned on its side, the symbol looks a bit like a crude drawing of the Scythe... a shaft with a blade on its side.

Beyond that, I got nothin'.

[Hellbound Hyperion]

Back when I first started re-reading the books to figure out what the "big picture" of Season Eight was, I reflected on the symbol a little bit and even got some outside views. Unfortunately, it didn't turn up anything I hadn't already thought of, and at the time I didn't think it was important.

It might be worth re-exploring now. I'll have to pull out my old notes and see what I came up with, then contextualize it with what's coming up soon regarding Twilight's reveal and his motives.

[NileQT87]

Well, twilight is the time when the time of day is halfway between night and day. A vampire is a creature of the night and a human is a creature of the day. Angel, who has both of his vampire and human selves, in a sense, is twilight; he's that point in between the two.

Also, it could mean that the end days are at a period between the age of the demons/magic/vampires/etc... and an age of humans. In that case, it would be a sunrise. Of course, it would also be a sunset on that, which means that it is a sunset on Buffy as well (who is part of that world).

One thing that I always keep noticing is Sahjhan when he's talking about awakening Holtz. Sahjhan, who travels through time, very plainly states that Holtz is about to wake up in the final century [of magic?].

For the record, the only time that twilight is ever mentioned in either series is Gwendolyn Post saying that Giles has the Twilight Compendium in his library.

[alex_krycek]

i'll have to go back and re-watch that about gwendolyn post and the twilight compendium. wonder if that will have some significance.

when i first saw the symbol, i thought about symbols we've already seen in the show. the first one that comes closest to the twilight symbol is that of the order of aurelius, of which angel was a member of. oddly enough, you can see the ring bearing that logo in the S1 episode, 'angel.' the order of aurelius' symbol is a sun with stars around it.

could twilight's intentions be part of a prophecy linked to 'the old ones' from the order of aurelius? or is twilight acting on his own agenda?

[Hellbound Hyperion]

the order of aurelius, of which angel was a member of.

Actually, from what I remember, Darla was a member. Angelus laughed it off as one big joke. It was a flashback in Angel, methinks.

[Skytteflickan88]

Jan 25, 2010 19:02:05 GMT -5 Hellbound Hyperion said:

the order of aurelius, of which angel was a member of.

Actually, from what I remember, Darla was a member. Angelus laughed it off as one big joke. It was a flashback in Angel, methinks.

Do you mean when Darla introduced Angelus to The Master?

I think the order of the Aurelius is simply the bloodline. The Master, Darla, Angelus, Drusilla, Spike, Penn, the guy from Why We Fight and Sheila (from Halloween) etc etc.

If you're sired from somene of the line of Aurelius, you belong to the order.

I seem to recall that Aurelius was a vampire, who later sired The Master, and so on, but that might be something I got from a fanfic.

[alex_krycek]

in the episode 'angel,' the master says about angelus that he "misses him so." when the master said that, i figured that meant angelus was one of the order.

[Hellbound Hyperion]

Jan 25, 2010 19:22:10 GMT -5 alex_krycek said:

in the episode 'angel,' the master says about angelus that he "misses him so." when the master said that, i figured that meant angelus was one of the order.

And I was remembering a flashback from S2-ish of Angel where Darla introduces Angelus to The Master and Angelus acts like a petulant child.

But Sky may be right. I'll watch for it when I get to re-watching Angel.

[Jaz ♀♀]

Simple. The symbol means only that it's a frown turned upside down and then turned upside down again.

[alex_krycek]

Jan 25, 2010 22:28:39 GMT -5 Hellbound Hyperion said:

Jan 25, 2010 19:22:10 GMT -5 alex_krycek said:

in the episode 'angel,' the master says about angelus that he "misses him so." when the master said that, i figured that meant angelus was one of the order.

And I was remembering a flashback from S2-ish of Angel where Darla introduces Angelus to The Master and Angelus acts like a petulant child.

But Sky may be right. I'll watch for it when I get to re-watching Angel.

i know the episode of angel you're talking about. angel does seem to mock the master and the order. i just think that off-screen, you could assume that over time, angelus was adopted into the group due to his ties with darla.

[Hellbound Hyperion]

Jan 25, 2010 23:03:28 GMT -5 alex_krycek said:

Jan 25, 2010 22:28:39 GMT -5 Hellbound Hyperion said:

And I was remembering a flashback from S2-ish of Angel where Darla introduces Angelus to The Master and Angelus acts like a petulant child.

But Sky may be right. I'll watch for it when I get to re-watching Angel.

i know the episode of angel you're talking about. angel does seem to mock the master and the order. i just think that off-screen, you could assume that over time, angelus was adopted into the group due to his ties with darla.

I dunno... if Darla couldn't convince him then, I doubt she'd be able to convince him later. Darla being sired by the Master basically saved her life; Angelus has no such tie to him, so he views him as he does The Beast in Angel S4, or Angel - impertinence, impatience, etc. It seems highly out of character to me for Angelus to join the Order.

[Eric]

Jan 25, 2010 6:42:13 GMT -5 NileQT87 said:

Well, twilight is the time when the time of day is halfway between night and day. A vampire is a creature of the night and a human is a creature of the day. Angel, who has both of his vampire and human selves, in a sense, is twilight; he's that point in between the two.

Also, it could mean that the end days are at a period between the age of the demons/magic/vampires/etc... and an age of humans. In that case, it would be a sunrise. Of course, it would also be a sunset on that, which means that it is a sunset on Buffy as well (who is part of that world).

One thing that I always keep noticing is Sahjhan when he's talking about awakening Holtz. Sahjhan, who travels through time, very plainly states that Holtz is about to wake up in the final century [of magic?].

For the record, the only time that twilight is ever mentioned in either series is Gwendolyn Post saying that Giles has the Twilight Compendium in his library.

Great points.

For the longest time I thought the Twilight symbol was Xander getting decapitated. (I also thought Xander was Twilight.) Xander has one eye. In Buffy's dream, Xander's dead falls off. Twilight's neck itched. Take that into account and the fact that the symbol resembles a one-eyed-person getting their throat slit... I still think Xander is somehow related to Twilight and it's/his symbol, but if I'm wrong, you have to admit it's a bizarre coincidence.

[Billie Erin]

Jan 26, 2010 5:28:31 GMT -5 Eric said:

Great points.

For the longest time I thought the Twilight symbol was Xander getting decapitated. (I also thought Xander was Twilight.) Xander has one eye. In Buffy's dream, Xander's dead falls off. Twilight's neck itched. Take that into account and the fact that the symbol resembles a one-eyed-person getting their throat slit... I still think Xander is somehow related to Twilight and it's/his symbol, but if I'm wrong, you have to admit it's a bizarre coincidence.

That does make a lot of sense, and Angel killing Xzander isn't too much of a stretch of the imagination. Personally I always went with the theory that it was a beautiful sunset symbolising good being overpowered by darkness. maybe that's what is going to happen to Buffy and that's why angel's here to stop it?

Since I found who Twilight was and about Buffy getting superpowers I've seen the Twilight plotline as a paralell to Willow's- Buffy's trying to stop Willow becoming evil and powerful, and Twilight's doing the same for her?

[jellymoff]

Question-Are we discussing Twilght's identity openly now without spolier tags?

[wenxina]

Jan 27, 2010 16:59:05 GMT -5 jellymoff said:

Question-Are we discussing Twilght's identity openly now without spolier tags?

I think people should know by now to stay out of threads with "Twilight" in the title.

[nmcil]

The one thing about the word twilight is that it can apply to several themes -

It has both the ending and the begining while at the same time consisting of both times and elements, it takes both the night/dark and the day/light and it combines both to make its own time

It also can signal the decline and ending of an era or an empire

It can also be a metaphor for the crucial & vital element in conflicts of any kind - The Reality of Individual Perceptions - the number of wars and death caused by groups fighting for what they perceive as "right" and "the only way and truth"

[AndrewCrossett]

If the horizontal line and curving line are interpreted as a literal depiction of a sunset (twilight), then the star to the upper left would be the "evening star," Venus. Venus is traditionally associated with women, which is apt when dealing with Slayers.

But the meaning of that still escapes me.

The curving line crosses over the horizontal one on the right side, but fails to meet it on the left side. The left side is the one with Venus on it.

From Twilight's perspective, could that mean the ascendancy of women (as personified by the ever-growing Slayer population) is somehow holding something back from completing? Causing a circuit to fail to close?

Does the curved line represent not a setting sun, but a trajectory line of something falling to earth, like a meteor? If so, the line originates near Venus, suggesting that the Slayers caused something to fall, or something to arrive on Earth... maybe something dangerous or unwelcome?

[birdandbear]

This is something I've been puzzling over for three years.

The word 'twilight' has so many connotations....it can be used to describe the half light before sunrise, but it more commonly refers to the falling darkness. You guys have said pretty much everything that's occurred to me about it's possible meaning in the story, but for the record, Merriam-Webster defines it as:

1 : the light from the sky between full night and sunrise or between sunset and full night produced by diffusion of sunlight through the atmosphere and its dust; also : a time of twilight
2 a : an intermediate state that is not clearly defined <lived in the twilight of neutrality — Newsweek> b : a period of decline <the twilight of a great career>

The underlined bit is interesting...

As Andrew pointed out, the moon/sun touches the horizon on one side but not the other - perhaps because it's out of balance, which lines up nicely with the theory that empowering all the potentials rocked the balance between good and evil, causing tremors in the foundation of the universe that will eventually lead to collapse.


It also strikes me that the star is pronouncedly four pointed, which could parallel the four elements, another paradigm that's strongly associated with balance. And celestial bodies, especially the moon and stars, are age old symbols of magic/mysticism.

And it still looks like the scythe to me.

Whatever it is, it's meaning is powerful enough that Twilight's people are carving the symbol into their flesh as a sign of their dedication. And self mutilation is generally reserved for scary fanatics. Whatever these people are doing, whatever Twilight has told them, they believe.


All in all, I still have to go with Buffy's "Beautiful Sunset." It does look like a sunset, and somehow, it looks sad as well.

[alex_krycek]

Jan 28, 2010 10:50:12 GMT -5 AndrewCrossett said:

If the horizontal line and curving line are interpreted as a literal depiction of a sunset (twilight), then the star to the upper left would be the "evening star," Venus. Venus is traditionally associated with women, which is apt when dealing with Slayers.

But the meaning of that still escapes me.

The curving line crosses over the horizontal one on the right side, but fails to meet it on the left side. The left side is the one with Venus on it.

From Twilight's perspective, could that mean the ascendancy of women (as personified by the ever-growing Slayer population) is somehow holding something back from completing? Causing a circuit to fail to close?

Does the curved line represent not a setting sun, but a trajectory line of something falling to earth, like a meteor? If so, the line originates near Venus, suggesting that the Slayers caused something to fall, or something to arrive on Earth... maybe something dangerous or unwelcome?

i love your theory. well thought out. maybe it's an army of queller demons in the meteor. or something less stupid but more scary.

or perhaps instead of a meteor falling to earth, the arc in the symbol represents something falling backwards in time. something has been misplaced?

[AndrewCrossett]

Added a picture of the symbol to the OP for reference.