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Post by hunter233 on Feb 21, 2010 7:00:50 GMT -5
Hey all, been a while since I posted here, but I had an idea. I think it's new; did a search to see if I could find it anywhere on the forum and nothing came up, so forgive me if I'm being repetitive.
So with the big new reveal that Angel is Twilight, an idea suddenly smacked me in the face about the identity of our long-mysterious "Prince." What about Connor? I'm still operating on the assumption that the Angel we're dealing with is from the future, because I don't really see how it fits with anything otherwise. So perhaps something happens to Connor that spurs his transformation into Twilight. We've already seen the great lengths to which he'll go to save his son: Brokering a deal with Wolfram & Hart, and even bringing about his own death. So would it be difficult to believe that he would find a way to alter time itself if something were to happen to his son that couldn't be simply "reset"? If this were the case, perhaps the key to everything would be for Buffy to save "The Prince," thereby keeping Angel from going down the road he did.
Aside from plot points, that could be interesting on a character level as well. It always sort of bothered me, though I understood why, that the shows never addressed what Buffy's reaction would be to the fact that the "love of her life" had a child with another woman. You'd imagine that kind of thing would mess with her head a bit. In a season in which a recurring theme seems to be Buffy being, from her point of view, abandoned by the people close to her as they move in their own directions, it would make sense for her to be forced to finally deal with the existence of her true love's son, someone he unquestioningly loves more than her, by the simple act of being required to save him.
I know it's pretty unlikely, but I thought it was a fun idea, and wanted to share it =)
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Feb 21, 2010 11:44:46 GMT -5
I think that would be a cool idea that could work. I'm just not sure if Joss would allow a crucial plot point of season 8 occur with the introduction of a solely AtS character into BtVS. That make sense?
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Feb 21, 2010 14:56:39 GMT -5
I think that would be a cool idea that could work. I'm just not sure if Joss would allow a crucial plot point of season 8 occur with the introduction of a solely AtS character into BtVS. That make sense? He's not allowed to, anyway. Only AtS characters that started on BtVS are his to use. The rest belong to IDW. |
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Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
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Post by Billie Erin on Feb 21, 2010 15:59:39 GMT -5
It's a really good plot idea I love it!
But I don't think that Joss is allowed to use any characters in Buffy season 8 that weren't in the Btvs TV show, and Conner wasn't.
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Kratos
Potential Slayer
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Post by Kratos on Feb 22, 2010 17:40:16 GMT -5
I don't like it, Connor has no place on Buffy.
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NileQT87
Common Vampire
Little Funky Angel[Mo0:3]
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Post by NileQT87 on Feb 24, 2010 7:36:34 GMT -5
Oh, I disagree. I've been hoping that Connor is the prince for a long time (this came up big time when we thought that Connor got killed).
It is absolutely crucial that Buffy learns that Angel had a son. His inability to have children was a major plot point in his story and it first came up in Bad Eggs, got repeated in The Prom and it was a storyline that came to fruition with Connor. The most important thing in Angel's entire existence is Connor, because he sees him as his link to humanity.
Of course, ending magic also happens to mean ending Connor. Connor isn't all human.
If Connor were alive, Angel would do anything to spare or save Connor. If Connor were dead, Angel doesn't have anything left really holding him to keeping the status quo of the mystical world (his own existence included). Buffy is probably the only other character left that even comes close to that level of obsession.
Connor is Angel's biggest weakness. If something happened to Connor, I can totally see Angel deciding once and for all to stop the mystical world from preying on the hapless human race.
Of course, Willow would be the prime opponent against the change of the status quo.
And if Buffy decides that she wants to finish the job that those early humans who made the Slayer started (the humans kicking the Old Ones out of the dimension), it brings a whole new meaning to Buffy's statement that she would kill Dawn if she had to make the same decision again.
Dawn and Connor are among those whose very existences are tied to the mystical. Connor perhaps could be spared if he were humanized somehow. Dawn isn't entirely a person.
Actually, I always theorized that Dawn was made out of the human part of Buffy and Buffy was left with more of the Slayer. It would explain why at the beginning of season 5, Buffy started to really associate with her Slayer-demon side and less with her human side.
Angel always represented and championed the most human aspects of Buffy. That's what he fell in love with, admired and what he wanted to become. She restored his faith in humanity and his entire life became about protecting the hapless human race to make their lives easier. He covets humanity so much that he'd give up his own life to save a dying whore because her human life is worth more to him than his own demonic life. It's all about humanity. Connor represents Angel's humanity.
And yes, it would be a very big deal for Buffy to learn about Connor. It represents the future that Buffy thought that she couldn't have (while Buffy consistently reaffirms that she's going to die young, doesn't want children, etc..., you'll note that she's quite disappointed in Bad Eggs).
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Smashed
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Post by Smashed on Feb 24, 2010 9:06:12 GMT -5
It's a really good plot idea I love it! But I don't think that Joss is allowed to use any characters in Buffy season 8 that weren't in the Btvs TV show, and Conner wasn't. If that's the case, why could the Loan Shark from "Tabula Rasa" come into ATF? Wouldn't that be the same priniple, since it should "belong" to Dark Horse? I think it's been said that, since Joss was the head writer/creator, he can do whatever the heck he wants with whoever the heck he wants. |
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Beaumonde
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Post by Beaumonde on Feb 24, 2010 9:28:52 GMT -5
I don't like it, Connor has no place on Buffy. I disagree. I see Buffy and Angel as one. If there's a reason for Connor to appear in Buffy, then it wouldn't bother me at all. |
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 24, 2010 10:15:35 GMT -5
I think Scott Allie has said that none of the characters original to AtS would be appearing in season 8. I don't know if Dark Horse's their license with Fox allows them to use those characters or not. I know that they can use any of the ones who originated in BtVS, so that includes Angel, Spike, Cordelia, Wesley and Harmony. Of those, two have already appeared, one is confirmed to be appearing in the future, and the other two are dead.
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BlueJay
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Post by BlueJay on Feb 24, 2010 10:17:40 GMT -5
I would hope that these last two arcs of Season Eight, as well as Season Nine, introduces more of the Angelverse. I actually would prefer to have both stories merged into one.
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balesthebloody
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
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Post by balesthebloody on Feb 26, 2010 22:52:29 GMT -5
I would hope that these last two arcs of Season Eight, as well as Season Nine, introduces more of the Angelverse. I actually would prefer to have both stories merged into one. I always pictured it happening this way. When Joss is ready to walk away from "Buffy" and "Angel" for good, I think he will bring them together to tell one epic story. |
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Post by Wyndam on Mar 3, 2010 16:11:28 GMT -5
I'm starting to think that Spike will be the prince. Going from a purely hierarchical stand point, with Buffy and Angel being the "Queen" and "King" of the Buffyverse in terms of its movers and shakers, that would naturally lead to Spike and possibly Faith being next in line, as "Prince" and "Princess." It's a simple way of looking at it, but considering Spike is on his way over to Season 8, I'm thinking it could be possible.
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Mar 3, 2010 19:20:19 GMT -5
I'm starting to think that Spike will be the prince. Going from a purely hierarchical stand point, with Buffy and Angel being the "Queen" and "King" of the Buffyverse in terms of its movers and shakers, that would naturally lead to Spike and possibly Faith being next in line, as "Prince" and "Princess." It's a simple way of looking at it, but considering Spike is on his way over to Season 8, I'm thinking it could be possible. And suddenly, we mourn for the long-lost Faith spin-off. *sigh* I like this, though.  |
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Post by butters on Mar 3, 2010 19:59:02 GMT -5
Could it be that this "glow" is bringering Buffy and Angel together to create the prince? Maybe she going to have to protect her unborn child?
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Post by buffyfan21 on Mar 4, 2010 20:22:23 GMT -5
Could it be that this "glow" is bringering Buffy and Angel together to create the prince? Maybe she going to have to protect her unborn child? Ya Know, I was thinking the same thing, especially when he said this to her: "That twist in your belly isn't just rage or confusion, and for once, it isn't even guilt. You feel me, Buffy. You feel us." And we know that they apparently got groiny with one another, so could it be that Buffy will end up pregnant with Angel's child? |
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NileQT87
Common Vampire
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Post by NileQT87 on Mar 4, 2010 23:33:41 GMT -5
There's also the point that sex between Buffy and Angel could never be just something eventless. It's a major deal for them. I can't see them doing it without some kind of major consequence or story plot developing from it.
Scratch that. It's mostly the Angel character that sex is never eventless for. Connor, anyone? AtS was absolutely loaded with pregnancy after pregnancy. Foreshadowing?
Especially combined with the conversations in Bad Eggs, The Prom and Chosen between Buffy and Angel mentioning children, it's certainly a logical place to go.
I'm smelling a pregnancy plot. People were thinking it way back when they saw the broken robin's egg. And it certainly makes the "prince" thing make sense. (Connor being the one, IMO, outside of a Bangel baby, that would fit that role the most literally.)
And yeah, Angel's use of the word "belly" in that conversation immediately jumped out at me. And the fact that it was about feeling him (or a part of him) in her belly.
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Post by buffyfan21 on Mar 5, 2010 12:30:09 GMT -5
There's also the point that sex between Buffy and Angel could never be just something eventless. It's a major deal for them. I can't see them doing it without some kind of major consequence or story plot developing from it. Scratch that. It's mostly the Angel character that sex is never eventless for. Connor, anyone? AtS was absolutely loaded with pregnancy after pregnancy. Foreshadowing? Especially combined with the conversations in Bad Eggs, The Prom and Chosen between Buffy and Angel mentioning children, it's certainly a logical place to go. I'm smelling a pregnancy plot. People were thinking it way back when they saw the broken robin's egg. And it certainly makes the "prince" thing make sense. (Connor being the one, IMO, outside of a Bangel baby, that would fit that role the most literally.) And yeah, Angel's use of the word "belly" in that conversation immediately jumped out at me. And the fact that it was about feeling him (or a part of him) in her belly. I completely agree with you on all points. I know when I read that line about a twist in her belly, etc., pregnancy was the first thing that came to mind. Especially since the two of them are having sex under a mystical influence (i.e. the glow) , I say a baby is entirely possible. |
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Post by butters on Mar 5, 2010 13:52:38 GMT -5
Can u imagine a super slayer and a super vamps baby? Wow! That would be destiny worthy But in the recent Q&A Scott said "I'm a little concerned that some of the little bits like the Prince won't be spelled out" so it prolly wont end up being anything that big  But i think it would be killer! |
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Post by buffyfan21 on Mar 5, 2010 22:03:44 GMT -5
Can u imagine a super slayer and a super vamps baby? Wow! That would be destiny worthy But in the recent Q&A Scott said "I'm a little concerned that some of the little bits like the Prince won't be spelled out" so it prolly wont end up being anything that big But i think it would be killer! Yeah. I know it may be a long shot but I'm still really hoping for a baby, cause that would be awesome.  |
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deathisyourgift
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Post by deathisyourgift on Mar 24, 2010 9:56:29 GMT -5
<<< floored... All of these theories would be amazing and mind boggling all at once. I still can't get over the fact that Twilight is Angel (just read the reveal issue two days ago). I think that the pregnancy idea would be epic, but should it really happen now? Maybe it's a metaphor for Buffy's cookie-doughness, maybe she's going to be ready, but not now? I don't even know what I'm saying, I'm at work study and it's far too early to be thinking this abstractly. Will edit later. With more sense. -Jen  |
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