Timeslips from "AtF": Want them to be canon?

[beeemkcl]

Sorry, there's not a lot of room to write a thread topic.

"AtF" is After the Fall .

Given the Issue #33 spoiler of

SPOILER: Click to show

Angel being Twilight

, it seems a good time to post this query.


In the future timeslips, Angel becomes a haggard old man. And he seems bitter and unhappy. This means that Angel became human in the future and made it to old age as a human. His long beard if gray.

Spike in the time of flying cars still seems to be a vampire. His hair still seems bleached. It seems Spike is still a vampire.


Anyway, do you want these timeslips to be true? Or do you want Season 8 or 9 or so to disregard them?

[Eric]

You accidently put a end-italicize tag instead of an end-spoiler tag...

In season eight of Buffy, time travel is a somewhat big plot point, but we still don't know exactly what the mechanics are. Just by knowing what happens in the future, Spike and Angel may be put in a position where that future will no longer come to be.

Also, while Illyria seemed to be taking the two into specific moments in their lives throughout the past, she may have done something different when taking them to the future.

[AndrewCrossett]

They're canon whether we want them to be or not. But there are many different possible timelines, and the things in those timeslips aren't necessarily mandated to happen in the story. As Scott Allie has told us, the future is not immutable in the Buffyverse.

[Wyndam]

Mar 10, 2010 10:37:30 GMT -5 AndrewCrossett said:

They're canon whether we want them to be or not. But there are many different possible timelines, and the things in those timeslips aren't necessarily mandated to happen in the story. As Scott Allie has told us, the future is not immutable in the Buffyverse.

^ This.

Nothing is ever set in stone, which has been one of Season 8's better conundrum's regarding Fray's future, magic ending and FDW.

[sire]

Well they timesliped into the past as well right?? I think the timeslips are kinda realities on their own created by Illyria rather then the actual future events... We see Spider and Spike in olden times as Spider and Spike but speaking olden timey speak. If they were literally transported back in time wouldnt they just speak normally?

[alex_krycek]

Apr 12, 2010 7:24:13 GMT -5 sire said:

Well they timesliped into the past as well right?? I think the timeslips are kinda realities on their own created by Illyria rather then the actual future events... We see Spider and Spike in olden times as Spider and Spike but speaking olden timey speak. If they were literally transported back in time wouldnt they just speak normally?

i totally agree. i think that it's illyria's powere to confuse the time slipee into thinking they are elsewhere. i guarantee that spike never had a moment with spider in the past. it's more an illusion. she's kinda like mysterio in that respect.

[Skytteflickan88]

Apr 29, 2010 13:42:52 GMT -5 alex_krycek said:

Apr 12, 2010 7:24:13 GMT -5 sire said:

Well they timesliped into the past as well right?? I think the timeslips are kinda realities on their own created by Illyria rather then the actual future events... We see Spider and Spike in olden times as Spider and Spike but speaking olden timey speak. If they were literally transported back in time wouldnt they just speak normally?

i totally agree. i think that it's illyria's powere to confuse the time slipee into thinking they are elsewhere. i guarantee that spike never had a moment with spider in the past. it's more an illusion. she's kinda like mysterio in that respect.

I think there's something different. She changed the past, so if Spike tried to remember hard enough, he would remember Illyria from his past. They weren't really time jumping, but she was transformed back in time, and the person who followed withg just kinda followed with.

I would have to re-read the series to come up with a better theory. I doubt it was just a illusion.

But it might also be that they're in different realities, like the Wish verse. Or maybe the moments are undone as soon as Illyria leaves them.

Actually, it probably a mix of those things. In Time Bomb, Angel was literally tme jumping, but that's not what happened in Atf, was it? But maybe sometimes? Man, I really need to re-read.

[neowhobaz]

I'm with the camp of people who say it's possibilities she shows. In "Time bomb" she showed the whole gang get killed and since Angel was with her the second go around he changed it from happening. In theory the old man Angel was/is a possibility but given Angel has knowledge of it he could theoritically prevent it.

Same with Spike in the future holding the Scythe. That could happen. Or Spike could avoid it after having seen the new belt he had to wear and not liking it lol.

[wenxina]

Apr 29, 2010 18:22:28 GMT -5 neowhobaz said:

Same with Spike in the future holding the Scythe. That could happen.

As usual, I feel compelled to point out that the axe that Spike was holding is NOT the Scythe. For one, it only shares a fleeting similarity to the infamous Scythe, and for another, Brian Lynch himself confirmed that it wasn't.

[neowhobaz]

I understand Wenx. Just trying to make the point that the timeslips could be possibilities rather than illusions.

[beeemkcl]

Eric

Just by knowing what happens in the future, Spike and Angel may be put in a position where that future will no longer come to be.

Illyria couldn’t change the future in Angel s5 so it’d be a cop-out for the timeslips to be nullified or whatever.

Also, while Illyria seemed to be taking the two into specific moments in their lives throughout the past, she may have done something different when taking them to the future.

All we know is that they were timeslips on in Angel s5, her timeslips were real. So, why wouldn’t they be real in After the Fall ?



AndrewCrossett

They're canon whether we want them to be or not. But there are many different possible timelines, and the things in those timeslips aren't necessarily mandated to happen in the story.

See above. Illyria’s timeslips actually happen.

As Scott Allie has told us, the future is not immutable in the Buffyverse.

Unless he’s talking about actual things that happen in future issues, I don’t care what Scott Allie’s opinions are.



Wyndam

I’m still waiting for my points for guessing Angel in the #2 spot on that Twilight guessing thread. 

Nothing is ever set in stone, which has been one of Season 8's better conundrum's regarding Fray's future, magic ending and FDW.

Fray’s future is still possible. Magic could still end. And what’s FDW?



sire

Well they timesliped into the past as well right?? I think the timeslips are kinda realities on their own created by Illyria rather then the actual future events... We see Spider and Spike in olden times as Spider and Spike but speaking olden timey speak. If they were literally transported back in time wouldnt they just speak normally?

Well, I assumed that the point was that given that Spider and Co. are immortal, that they were simply alive back in those times.



alex_krycek

i think that it's illyria's powere to confuse the time slipee into thinking they are elsewhere. i guarantee that spike never had a moment with spider in the past. it's more an illusion. she's kinda like mysterio in that respect.

Well, no, they were simply transported into such a time. Just like Angel was transported to a time when he was a baby.



neowhobaz

I'm with the camp of people who say it's possibilities she shows. In "Time bomb" she showed the whole gang get killed and since Angel was with her the second go around he changed it from happening. In theory the old man Angel was/is a possibility but given Angel has knowledge of it he could theoritically prevent it.

Same with Spike in the future holding the Scythe. That could happen. Or Spike could avoid it after having seen the new belt he had to wear and not liking it lol.

That’s kinda a good point. But that was an event that Angel only changed because he is directly there to change it.

So, it seems more likely that the future timeslips would be things that actually are true in the future.

[sire]

May 13, 2010 20:32:26 GMT -5 beeemkcl said:

Eric

Just by knowing what happens in the future, Spike and Angel may be put in a position where that future will no longer come to be.

Illyria couldn’t change the future in Angel s5 so it’d be a cop-out for the timeslips to be nullified or whatever.

All we know is that they were timeslips on in Angel s5, her timeslips were real. So, why wouldn’t they be real in After the Fall ?



AndrewCrossett

See above. Illyria’s timeslips actually happen.

Unless he’s talking about actual things that happen in future issues, I don’t care what Scott Allie’s opinions are.



Wyndam

I’m still waiting for my points for guessing Angel in the #2 spot on that Twilight guessing thread. 

Fray’s future is still possible. Magic could still end. And what’s FDW?



sire

Well, I assumed that the point was that given that Spider and Co. are immortal, that they were simply alive back in those times.



alex_krycek

Well, no, they were simply transported into such a time. Just like Angel was transported to a time when he was a baby.



neowhobaz

I'm with the camp of people who say it's possibilities she shows. In "Time bomb" she showed the whole gang get killed and since Angel was with her the second go around he changed it from happening. In theory the old man Angel was/is a possibility but given Angel has knowledge of it he could theoritically prevent it.

Same with Spike in the future holding the Scythe. That could happen. Or Spike could avoid it after having seen the new belt he had to wear and not liking it lol.

That’s kinda a good point. But that was an event that Angel only changed because he is directly there to change it.

So, it seems more likely that the future timeslips would be things that actually are true in the future.

Spider is immortal? Im sorry but i dont think Illyria is literally slipping people through time. Its like 'The Wish' in Buffy, different realites created because of different circumstances. Essentially Illyira creates new realites thays her whole god-like power.