The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
|
Post by The Night Lord on Jun 28, 2010 0:33:11 GMT -5
It's Rule 34, I tell ya. It's infected comic books! What exactly is Rule 34? I'm unedumacated
|
|
zamolxis
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 210
|
Post by zamolxis on Jun 28, 2010 1:02:50 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Jun 28, 2010 3:56:58 GMT -5
HH, OT Little Mermaid: It's the motion of the video that makes it look like an erection. From being completely flat to popping out. Tunics don't pop out at will and look like erections. VidWhether it's done deliberately or not, that's what it looks like. Call if a Freudian slip of the artist, whatever. But a knee just doesn't pop out like that, haha.
|
|
The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
|
Post by The Night Lord on Jun 28, 2010 5:40:14 GMT -5
^ Unless he's got weak knees that do pop out
|
|
zamolxis
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 210
|
Post by zamolxis on Jun 28, 2010 6:19:26 GMT -5
|
|
Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
|
Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jun 28, 2010 13:27:26 GMT -5
HH, OT Little Mermaid: It's the motion of the video that makes it look like an erection. From being completely flat to popping out. Tunics don't pop out at will and look like erections. VidWhether it's done deliberately or not, that's what it looks like. Call if a Freudian slip of the artist, whatever. But a knee just doesn't pop out like that, haha. OT: Oh, I agree that the animation is out of whack. Just from the screen caps you can see how badly proportioned the guy is - he goes from being short and chubby to rather lanky and tall. A simple shift in perspective wouldn't do that, and cameras do not add ten pounds in animated cartoons.
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Jun 28, 2010 15:50:34 GMT -5
*resists the urge to continue all day long at Cam*
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Jun 28, 2010 15:58:31 GMT -5
I, personally, can't wait to see the solicitation for #37... in vain hope that it might shed some light on what to expect from this issue. If things go as usual, Dark Horse's October solicitations will come out sometime next month, probably even before the preview for this comes out. How's that for a non-subtle segue to bring us back OT?
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Jun 28, 2010 16:44:43 GMT -5
I wonder if Dark Horse specifically chose this one page of #36 as an early preview because it suggests, more clearly than anything that's come before, that Angel was not really in control of himself.
Maybe they didn't want the Angel Hate to continue growing and stewing all summer long.
|
|
Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
|
Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jun 28, 2010 17:24:27 GMT -5
I wonder if Dark Horse specifically chose this one page of #36 as an early preview because it suggests, more clearly than anything that's come before, that Angel was not really in control of himself. Maybe they didn't want the Angel Hate to continue growing and stewing all summer long. Yeah, I've been thinking that as well. "Wow, what a really convenient page to use in the Previews catalog. It's like they actually know we're upset or something!" I have been thinking a lot about Angel lately, particularly season 5's premiere Conviction and the character arcs of that season as a whole. I've mostly been trying to map out Joss's brain with regards to Angel. If AtF incorporated story elements that would have constituted season 6 of Angel, then anything Joss does post-AtF is moving into the same territory he was in when starting Buffy S8. The story is now in uncharted territory. Where do we go from here? I'm hoping Last Gleaming will at least give us some insight into this. And apparently I just have more thoughts, because I've now typed and deleted three different paragraphs explaining my own take on Angel's character in recent issues. It's just... complicated. Which is why I'm really hopeful now that Spike's here, because he's very good at getting to the heart of things (even though his doesn't beat - it would break his chest!). And given this preview page, as I've said before, he has a different perspective on the events of the comics, which should make for an interesting endgame.
|
|
Dorotea
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 145
|
Post by Dorotea on Jun 28, 2010 23:39:00 GMT -5
Maybe they didn't want the Angel Hate to continue growing and stewing all summer long. Is not it kind of late? The shipper war is at full swing. Plus all the accumulated wrath at the long cultivated Big Bad. Many of the folks are so used to hating Angel - it is like breathing. Shrug. No. I think it was probably the least spolilerish possible selection - the rest of the issue is probably too plot-involved - this is Joss arc after ,all, and all his issues are action and plot packed and brimming with goodness.
|
|
zamolxis
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 210
|
Post by zamolxis on Jun 29, 2010 8:28:03 GMT -5
Why does Geppetto have to be tied in with Kenny? Dawn became a doll, Geppetto found her, and was trying to fix her. He doesn't necessarily have to be in with Kenny on anything at all. I am not offended at all, and I know a few people from other forum who are skeptical about 'gepetto'. IMHO - red herring of the reddest variety. Why does the puppet-maker has to be tied in with Kenny? Because it is too much of a coincidence that Dawn goes into the woods as a centaurette and as she gets near the puppet-maker's hut ( in the deep Scottish woods teaming with magical critters) she suddenly switches to a doll and is immediately found by the puppet-maker guy, whose hut just happens to be in these bushes and who also happens to have workshops all over the world. Ok, I might buy a 'traveling in time and space' workshop - ala Terry Pratchett's 'little magic shop' - but it has to be to much of a coincidence for it to jump over to the place were Dawn happens to be at the moment without the guy knowing about Kenny - so she is instantly picked up. To introduce an omnipotent puppet-maker who watches over thricewise and can turn vampires into Gods and mesmerize half the population of a big city to speak in 'voices' this late in the game... I cannot buy this simply because it is too convenient/ridiculous and would throw away too much of other mysteries with water - it is a coup out and I simply don't like it. I think Gepetto from #36 panel is an allusion that Angel is manipulated as the rest of the living creatures with him and that the resemblance with Gepetto from #25 is to remind us about that issue where a gremlin wanted to keep Dawn in the workshop as a doll, the said gremlin also showed later following Buffy and Xander and his race attacking them with tiny arrows. As for Kenny and the puppet maker, Scott Allie straight forward compared Kenny with Angel in Q&A for issue 31 AFTER the Twilightgate, even mentioning the mask: In response to Vampmogs about the "in between #35 and #36 issue" Allie said that And this is possible to see more in the Riley issue.
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Jun 29, 2010 8:44:42 GMT -5
Hmm. I hadn't noticed before that Allie refers to "vampires in vogue and Slayers as pariahs" as part of the "Twilight effect." So that suggests it's a result of Mr. Universe's manipulations, and not just all of humanity suddenly turning into Bizarro World morons. (More than usual, that is.)
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Jun 29, 2010 9:15:57 GMT -5
The "Twilight effect" can also be that for some reason, Twilight becomes this charismatic counter-force to the Slayer army. Not going to fully discount the universe's work at play, but I don't think that having that element is necessary for what's at work here. The fact of the matter is, Slayer's aren't considered human. They can be lynched in the streets or blown up by trained gunmen... ain't no matter to the world. They are the "other" in this story, whereas the vampires have become the "familiar".
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Jun 29, 2010 10:01:50 GMT -5
The "Twilight effect" can also be that for some reason, Twilight becomes this charismatic counter-force to the Slayer army. Not going to fully discount the universe's work at play, but I don't think that having that element is necessary for what's at work here. The fact of the matter is, Slayer's aren't considered human. They can be lynched in the streets or blown up by trained gunmen... ain't no matter to the world. They are the "other" in this story, whereas the vampires have become the "familiar". And that continues to make zero sense to me, despite everything. I consider it the lamest and most illogical and poorly explained plot element in any Whedon story, ever. That just isn't the way people work. It's as implausible in fiction as it would be in real life.
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Jun 29, 2010 10:10:51 GMT -5
And that continues to make zero sense to me, despite everything. I consider it the lamest and most illogical and poorly explained plot element in any Whedon story, ever. That just isn't the way people work. It's as implausible in fiction as it would be in real life. Hey, if you don't buy it, that's fine. But that doesn't mean that it can't be the way it is. People have done horrible things to each other, all in the name of the "other". They still do it now. In real life. To people. With that perspective, I don't really have a problem with the plot point.
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Jun 29, 2010 11:04:50 GMT -5
What I find most ridiculous is portraying the entire human race as thinking with a single mind on an issue that logically should produce reactions ranging from curiosity to terror to revulsion. We haven't seen the slightest hint of anti-vampire sentiment or unease among ANYONE except the Slayers and their immediate associates. Despite the fact that they drink people's lifeblood for a living.
I simply can't imagine a scenario in which the human race would react in that way to that kind of revelation. It takes me right out of the story. In fact, it comes very close to unravelling all of season 8 for me if I can't attribute it to something like a world-manipulating spell or the influence of the "Universe."
The notion that all of humanity (all of it) would unquestioningly accept vampires as the "familiar" and Slayers as the "other" is just baffling, and unsupported by anything in the story or in the realm of logic or human behavior.
So yeah, I do have a big problem with the plot point.
|
|
zamolxis
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 210
|
Post by zamolxis on Jun 29, 2010 11:26:21 GMT -5
I remember reading that after Harmony's show, the events were spiraling down for the slayers and, even if it is an old plot development, didn't Jasmine want to go global via satellite? Mass-manipulation and the slayers weren't affected due to varies protection spells coordinated by Willow.
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Jun 29, 2010 11:33:47 GMT -5
If a spell were involved, it probably would have been more a "nudge" than a complete mass brainwashing. People with no opinion on vampires (or no previous knowledge that they existed) might be nudged toward giving them the benefit of the doubt; those that already knew the true nature of vampires (like the Slayers, Scoobies and their friends) would be unaffected.
But without magic, such a situation couldn't arise. Look at the debate these days, even about things that have been factually proven -- people don't unanimously accept ANYTHING, and especially not something where the observable facts run counter to what they're being asked to swallow.
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Jun 29, 2010 12:07:37 GMT -5
The observable facts are: Hey, pretty blonde vampire gets randomly attacked by a Slayer. Slayer=bad. Then they spin the whole "vampires are misunderstood" thing. Yes, they bite, but no one has really seen a vampire kill. Sunnydale and LA always found a way to look the other way when it came to demonic activity. Unlike us, the world in the story has been pretty oblivious to vampires, demons, and more importantly, the metaphysics of vampirism. The Colbert Report short notwithstanding. And the Colbert Report is also satirical. Meaning that it wouldn't have been taken seriously, but rather tongue in cheek. And Harmony issued a no-kill policy. Yes, there'll be some that won't listen (like Ash), but what are they other than bad seeds? A member of a minority does something bad... do we say "ALL of the minority is bad?" Do we wipe out the minority? Or hey, what's the legal/ethical standpoint on siring? You have to technically kill a person to sire them. What if it was voluntary? Should it be allowed? Or should that be considered akin to suicide or assisted suicide?Euthanasia? What about free will? I mean, if you're reading the ANGEL books right now, the same issues are raised.
So really, what you have is vampires who appear mostly harmless, except that they need to drink blood. Big deal... people are lining up to offer their necks. And for many preteens now, their first, and therefore most lasting introduction to vampires is the Twilight Saga. Not Dracula. Not Lestat. Not Angel, and not even Spike. But rather, Edward. Tortured soul, deeply "romantic", etc. Can you truly fault naivete? Same thing with these people. They're seeing vampires for the first time, and for them, these are magical creatures... "those who walk among us", "the lonely ones", or whatever romanticized notions have you.
Then you have Slayers misbehaving, taking over towns, hurting people. Then the military is anti-Slayer. Slayers are described as "Nazis", and portrayed as such (master race, Fascist, anything not popular). From my experience, the number of people who actually think that Nazis were nice people are an overwhelming minority. "Nazi" has become a dirty word of sorts. So there's your almost single-mindedness about an issue.
We've been told before that not everyone is pro-vamp and anti-Slayer. Yes, it's not textual, but rather the word of the editor. But you already knew that. I'll concede that some pro-Slayer people should be more visible. In fact, a one-shot would have worked. To go back to the Nazi reference, it also makes sense for Slayer sympathizers to be less vocal... you wouldn't want to be called a Nazi sympathizer now, would you? Or for a more general example, a bigot, or a racist, or sexist, or misogynist... all "dirty" words that people in general, don't like to be called, despite their socio-political leanings. Because of how it paints them in archetypical costumes.
The point is, Slayers are quite overwhelmingly considered the "other". Because they were ousted from the offensive POV. The Slayer (Soledad) was the attacker, a crazed woman leaping out of the crowd to kill a seemingly innocent Harmony. In other words, the audience is already on Harmony's side. Slayers are superpowered bullies. And objectively speaking, just going through S8 alone, there is a lot more evidence for Slayer=bad than there is for vampires=evil.
And as I previously stated, humans have done horrible things to each other, all in the name of "otherness". The current conflict wasn't so much foreshadowed as it was spelled out in the closing of "TLWH", with Voll telling Buffy that she now stood against humanity at large. Once Slayers became the "other", persecuting them is not a stretch. Humanity isn't nice. Our base nature is pretty much selfish... just as nature usually is.
|
|