The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on Jun 8, 2010 0:46:42 GMT -5
About bloody time we heard something about the Spike series
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Post by uncannyslayer on Jun 8, 2010 19:13:02 GMT -5
You're not the only one. I've pretty much given up on the Angel series after #32, due to the bad writing and characterisation. And I've mosty given up on the Angel character due to his actions in Buffy season 8. The only character from Angel that I'm interested in really is Spike and that's only due to season 8, not Willingham's writing. It's a shame that it seems like Joss isn't really interested in the Angel series, as it hasn't been great since the end of ATF, but I do claim solace in the fact that it's not canon The bad charactersation is my reason for dumping the series as well. Though people's reactions towards # 33 seems to be positive, I've come to a point, where I've lost my patience with Willingham and most of IDW's Angel Series. I'm hoping that thing sfrom after AtF are going to be retconned in a canon story some day. But I am looking forward to Lynch's Spike Series, since he has such a great handle on the characters and is good at making up his own interesting ones and unique storylines. On another note, I really think it is time for a thread like this one, since the complaints are influencing every other thread on the "IDW-Angelboard".
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jun 10, 2010 7:58:19 GMT -5
I wouldn't give up yet.
There is genuinely awesome stuff to come. For real.
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Post by winterdreamer on Jun 10, 2010 12:36:49 GMT -5
You couldnt pry me away from my monthly Angel with a crowbar. I'm really liking where its going of late, the new big-bad storyline looks to be great as well. ;D
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alex_krycek
Rogue Demon Hunter
keeper of the x-files
sorry, i just remembered seeing king ralph[Mo0:30]
Posts: 484
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Post by alex_krycek on Jun 10, 2010 13:25:17 GMT -5
i'm not done w/ after the fall yet, but i'll give aftermath and the non-cannon stories a try. if the stories are good, i'll most likely stick with it.
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Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
"I picked up a hitchhiker. You've got to when you hit them."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,536
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Post by Billie Erin on Jun 10, 2010 14:19:40 GMT -5
Or maybe they could end. Why can't Joss just canonise post-Atf- excluding Aftermath if need be- and say it's still a year behind Buffy? Maybe season 8 started a little later than he previosuly said? He's the one with the power to end this feud once and for all.
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Randi Giles
Wise-cracking Sidekick
I Want to Believe
Moon Eyes in disguise.[Mo0:34]
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Randi Giles on Jun 10, 2010 21:17:45 GMT -5
About bloody time we heard something about the Spike series So true! Being my favorite character and all I really don't want to give up on him too. Plus I like the way Lynch writes him so I'm really excited about it.
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Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Jun 11, 2010 4:06:57 GMT -5
Can’t really say that any storyline has roped me in since ‘After the fall’. Long term new characters don’t really interest me in comics when we have so many unused or under developed characters from the TV series. I am still on the bandwagon that the deceased characters (eg: Wes/Fred/Cordy and a few others) still have a much interesting part to play (via the afterlife or players for the universe, or season 6 LOST side-ways type limbo thing lol.) that any new characters can ever have.
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Post by angeliclestat on Jun 11, 2010 8:42:33 GMT -5
Can’t really say that any storyline has roped me in since ‘After the fall’. Long term new characters don’t really interest me in comics when we have so many unused or under developed characters from the TV series. I am still on the bandwagon that the deceased characters (eg: Wes/Fred/Cordy and a few others) still have a much interesting part to play (via the afterlife or players for the universe, or season 6 LOST side-ways type limbo thing lol.) that any new characters can ever have. I have to say I do not understand that attitude. When Angel got his own show should he only have had people from Sunnydale? You forget that characters like Fred+Gunn were 'original characters' as well - unique to Angels world.If we stuck only to people from the show ,1st of all we would have a much smaller cast, also it would get stagnant pretty quick. Fiction like this always needs new characters to expand the world and to keep things interesting. Wes,Fred and Cordy are dead. Gone. As much as we all miss them we have to move on. Just like in our lives we meet new people and we have to leave the people we lost behind - not forgotton, but if we dont move on we are the less well off for it.
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Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Jun 12, 2010 8:19:10 GMT -5
Yeah, Well it’s a bit different when it comes to new TV and new Comic characters. But like I said new 'Long term' characters sticking around. Of course we need to characters for new storylines and arcs. I can’t see how anyone would naturally settle into what’s left of the group. Post-After the fall just has an unnatural fell to it to me. It’s kind of on life support. I wish that they just focus on Angel/Connor/Illyria/Gunn + the rest from the show.
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ruby
Common Vampire
Grenadey-girl in green
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 66
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Post by ruby on Jun 12, 2010 13:28:17 GMT -5
^^^I don't know I mean personally I really love that Gwen's character's getting mroe spotlight for once because she and Angel really have a lot in common- they disappointed their parents and ended up resentful, powerful and alone- and I see potential for some powerful paralell plotlines. Also I think that one of the best things about the show was that it wasn't afraid to change it's character line-up every so often. It could get boring otherwise.
I think Laura Weathermill has a lot of potential and also don't you think it's better to let writers work new characters into awkward dramatic roles instead of compromising the characterisation of the likes and Spike and Angel for that purpose?
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Post by buffster88 on Jul 21, 2010 8:14:53 GMT -5
I stopped reading them a while ago along with buffy s8 (#20). I still buy them but will read them only after it finishes. Luckily we know buffy has only 40 issues but does anyone know when s6 will come to an end. i've never got into comics before this so i hope im saying or understanding it right. I think my love for the tv show will make me continue to read and enjoy them. I am dissapointed with the artwork in angel Hope it gets better.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jul 21, 2010 8:28:24 GMT -5
I stopped reading them a while ago along with buffy s8 (#20). I still buy them but will read them only after it finishes. Luckily we know buffy has only 40 issues but does anyone know when s6 will come to an end. i've never got into comics before this so i hope im saying or understanding it right. I think my love for the tv show will make me continue to read and enjoy them. I am dissapointed with the artwork in angel Hope it gets better. Joss's "season 6" came to an end with issue #17. (Some people count #23 as part of it too.) Since then, Angel has been a licensed comic that's not canonical.
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Maggie
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 48
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Post by Maggie on Jul 21, 2010 9:02:01 GMT -5
I stopped reading them a while ago along with buffy s8 (#20). I still buy them but will read them only after it finishes. Luckily we know buffy has only 40 issues but does anyone know when s6 will come to an end. i've never got into comics before this so i hope im saying or understanding it right. I think my love for the tv show will make me continue to read and enjoy them. I am dissapointed with the artwork in angel Hope it gets better. Actually, Joss explicitly said that you can NOT call AtF season 6 in an interview where he really walked away from that project. He gave Lynch a few notes, tossed around a few ideas, and then said good luck with that. With season 8, by contrast, Joss is executive producing. Joss said that after calling AtF canon, so I read his subsequent disclaimer as walking that back as much as he can. I know folks want to take AtF as canon, and I can't stop people from calling it that. But you for sure can't call it season 6. And I don't think Joss had enough involvement with it for it to be more than quasi-canon. Obviously nothing since is canon in any sense. Nor does it deserve to be. If people want professional fanfic that's cool, but for me if Whedon isn't seriously involved it's not part of the real story.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jul 21, 2010 9:40:10 GMT -5
I agree than No Joss = No Canon. But I do fully accept AtF as canon, because he said it was and because he did work directly with Brian Lynch to plot it. He probably had more input into it than he did to some of the season 6 and 7 episodes of BtVS.
I understood the "no season 6" thing to mean that AtF wasn't considered a full season in its own right, but just a single story arc flowing out of season 5.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 21, 2010 11:39:08 GMT -5
I actually think that a story can be canon without Joss being involved to a hundred percent in it (just like episodes with little involvement by Joss is still canon). As long as he, or someone with similar "canon-authority powers" says it's canon.
Regarding "season 6", I can't remember exactly what Joss said, but when asked if Aft was canon or not, he said that "This is the continuation of season 5, it's canon" or something to that effect.
It always annoys me when people call the comics season 6, because it's misleading. Makes people expect a tv-season like comic series, like season 8. I can quite put my finger on why the ongoing series is less like a tv season that Season 8. I guess it's how the different arcs aren't leading up to a "season finale".
Or maybe I'm annoyed just like when people call Aftermath part 1, After the fall #18. It's just the wrong name.
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Post by angeliclestat on Jul 21, 2010 13:14:07 GMT -5
It always annoys me when people call the comics season 6, because it's misleading. Makes people expect a tv-season like comic series, like season 8 To be honest I hate the whole idea of calling comics 'seasons' anyway.It's completely wrong. What 'season' on television would last over 4 years.? It does the medium an injustice as far as I am concerned. Its not a TV show anymore.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 21, 2010 14:55:30 GMT -5
It always annoys me when people call the comics season 6, because it's misleading. Makes people expect a tv-season like comic series, like season 8 To be honest I hate the whole idea of calling comics 'seasons' anyway.It's completely wrong. What 'season' on television would last over 4 years.? It does the medium an injustice as far as I am concerned. Its not a TV show anymore. I think it was simply to make people see that this comic was different from the other ones, to make it sound more canon. Because other than that it has a limited run, and somewhat episode like arcs (I can buy that the 4 issue arcs are double episodes) you're right, it's not very season like. More than the ongoing series tough.
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Post by wenxina on Jul 21, 2010 15:29:43 GMT -5
It always annoys me when people call the comics season 6, because it's misleading. Makes people expect a tv-season like comic series, like season 8 To be honest I hate the whole idea of calling comics 'seasons' anyway.It's completely wrong. What 'season' on television would last over 4 years.? It does the medium an injustice as far as I am concerned. Its not a TV show anymore. No, it's not a TV show anymore. However, the concept of a "season" in terms of the Buffyverse isn't so much determined by time (though each season generally explored the span of a year), but rather the thematic material a collection of episodes explores. In calling something a season, it's merely stating that all the books within that will contribute to the exploration of a particular set of themes. Therefore, I have no problem with calling something a season, if it is indeed structured that way. And by the definition I just gave, the ANGEL books wouldn't be a season. And that's fine, because they're not structured that way. The format is different. Instead of an overarching season, what the ANGEL books is doing is clearly adopting the ongoing format. A collection of stories that share continuity, but not necessarily the same agenda.
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Maggie
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 48
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Post by Maggie on Jul 22, 2010 10:20:47 GMT -5
I agree than No Joss = No Canon. But I do fully accept AtF as canon, because he said it was and because he did work directly with Brian Lynch to plot it. He probably had more input into it than he did to some of the season 6 and 7 episodes of BtVS. I understood the "no season 6" thing to mean that AtF wasn't considered a full season in its own right, but just a single story arc flowing out of season 5. No. Joss immediately explained that you can't call AtF season 6, because unlike season 8 his involvement was *minimal*, where minimal meant that he handed Lynch a few ideas, tossed around a few ideas and then had nothing more to do with the project in contrast to the fact that he's overseeing every detail of season 8. And that totally read like a walk back on canonicity to me. The canon remark came at the beginning before Whedon saw what Lynch would actually do. Lynch did some things (by his own confession) that Joss asked him not to (bring Cordelia back in a manner of speaking). We don't know what Whedon approved and what Lynch did on his own or even against Whedon's wishes. We do know that when AtF was over, Joss said you can't look at it as season 6 BECAUSE his involvement was very limited. Not sure why he'd say that out loud, but it works to distance himself from a project that does not have the classic Whedon-like depth of vision. For myself the AtF 'canon' extends this far and no further: After NFA, Angel et. al. got sent to hell, but then everything that happened there was erased so nothing really happened. Punkt. Joss had Twilight totally mapped before Lynch did AtF, and therefore was NOT taking any details that Lynch added into that basic set up into account when writing about Twangel. ETA: Here's the actual quote: "We don't want to call it "Season 6," of course, because I'm already doing that at Dark Horse, and we called that "Buffy Season 8" because I'm literally executive producing it, which is new for me in comics and a kind of weird title for comics, but it's exactly what I'm doing. I just didn't have time for that for "Angel" and IDW. I was as over-stretched as it is, and I was beginning to realize how much work "Buffy" was going to pull out of me. So I said to Brian, "We can't call this Season 6, but I can give you what we were going to do because I think it's a fun premise." Brian and I met a couple of times to discuss ideas. He wrote out a couple of outlines, and I tweaked them. And then I sort of sent him on his way. That was my involvement with the "Angel" franchise. I saw it as a 12-issue arc, and they would dictate what happens after that. And obviously, in that arc Los Angeles is a demon hell while obviously in "Buffy" it's not. I always thought there would be some kind of a "buy back" which we would have done on TV as well. If we had done Season 6 as a post-apocalyptic nightmare, we would have brought it back at the end so that we could have done Season 7 – he said wistfully – to bring it all back to the Buffyverse. The intent was always that, when Angel finally showed up [in the pages of "Buffy"], we'd make some very vague comment saying how "Things had gotten very funky, and now I'm here doing whatever it is I'm doing" which people now unfortunately know. [Laughs] Actually, they really don't, but that will become clear later." Note he says 12-issue, not 17. Doesn't that sound like a pointed detail to add?
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