leyki
Common Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 90
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Post by leyki on Aug 18, 2010 15:58:41 GMT -5
Let's not forget that the cries of the fan base, is basically what kept Spike's character alive, back in season 2, and what let Joss into using him as a basic character for so many years and what basically resurrected him in season 5 of AtS. So, no, as long as the fan base wants Spike alive and kickin', Scott or any other Spike hater can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but just sit back and enjoy with the rest of us, William the Bloody.
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Post by VampSlayer on Aug 18, 2010 16:05:42 GMT -5
My opinion on this subject is jumbled at the moment.
This could be really bad. Or it could be okay. I'm still not sure. The current Angel Ongoing isn't perfect, but it isn't terrible either. Moving over to DH could mean ignoring everything post-AtF, and that would not sit well with some of the fans.
And the new SPIKE series. -Sigh- No idea. It doesn't sound like this will last as an Ongoing, sadly.
Since this really is happening, though, here's what I'd like to see happen: IDW needs to make the most of what is left. From what I've heard, the latest issue is very good. Great. Keep it up. It'd be really wonderful if IDW could wrap up their run on Angel, within another arc or two. They could set it up perfectly for DH's takeover. It also sounds like DH is launching Angel side by side with BS9, so there would obviously be a time skip, maybe. IDW could end the Angel Ongoing, and then connect it with BS8/9 through SPIKE. Once both have ended, the new Angel Ongoing could take place simultaneously with BS9. Sounds good to me.
One thing I will be upset about is this: IDW always released such nice HCs. Whereas DH has always released TPBs. I'd take a HC over a TPB any day, but I doubt DH will do that.
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47kwest
Potential Slayer
"This is where the fun begins!"[Mo0:37]
Posts: 120
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Post by 47kwest on Aug 18, 2010 16:48:28 GMT -5
Well ultimately I would think that would be Joss' decision. Who says they won't? Plus remember this is a business. A for profit business. If the interest is there, they just might. All I'm saying is give this info a chance. Let it sink in. I have other IDW titles I follow. Maybe the contract just expires and there's no renewing it. Hence the flurry of other Angelverse stories. They knew it was coming. Remember as much as we love this verse and everything in it, it is still a business. I'm definitely giving the news a chance. I'll happily warm to this change if DH handles Angel properly. There is certainly cause to worry though. A lot can go wrong with this and a lot of good can come out of it. We'll just have to wait and see. What's "properly"? No offense but your idea of properly may not jive with the PTB' s of Joss' verse. I'm sorry that just seems really arrogant of you to think you know what's proper for these characters and DH's business.
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 18, 2010 16:55:11 GMT -5
I'm definitely giving the news a chance. I'll happily warm to this change if DH handles Angel properly. There is certainly cause to worry though. A lot can go wrong with this and a lot of good can come out of it. We'll just have to wait and see. What's "properly"? No offense but your idea of properly may not jive with the PTB' s of Joss' verse. I'm sorry that just seems really arrogant of you to think you know what's proper for these characters and DH's business. Most fans are unhappy with what has happened with Angel in Season 8, that is what I'm focusing on. I've never said or even think I know how to handle Angel, his series or its characters better than the professionals. All I am saying is there is cause to worry, just like there is cause to worry with virtually any new project. So "properly" for me is that I want Angel to be handled with care, what's arrogant about that?
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47kwest
Potential Slayer
"This is where the fun begins!"[Mo0:37]
Posts: 120
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Post by 47kwest on Aug 18, 2010 17:15:54 GMT -5
My thoughts are this ... If Dark Horse can properly utilize Angel the SERIES and not just Angel the CHARACTER, give us a good story, art and writers, then I could warm to this. There's no question that having BtVS and AtS under one roof will make things easier, from a continuity/story standpoint. I just hope they aren't reacquiring the rights simply to use Angel. By reacquiring Angel, that also means they are getting the show back, not just the character. Gunn, Illyria, Connor, Spike, etc. are all coming back. Give us a proper Angel series and not just the character interacting with Buffy again. I think most will agree that Angel is much more interesting when he's the star of his own series. Yes yes yes - this! This is not jsut about Angel but about Connor, Gunn and Illyria etc Joss had Angel conveniantly forget about them (and his own son - the most important thing in the world to him!!!!) and just go back to the lovesick puppy of Buffy season 1. from 10 years ago! Knowing Joss' infinite ability to remember all that he has created, do you really think he conveniently forgot about Angel's family? I'm sure Angel, like all parents, once the child has grown they do go out and live some sort of life for themselves. Angel's son is his true love as it should be, but not the end all be all of his existence and his choices. Would you like to be the child of a parent who only lived their life through you and for you? No life of their own? Please Connor is is probably like " yeah dad go away! Do your own thing so I can do mine!" come on people!
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leyki
Common Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 90
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Post by leyki on Aug 18, 2010 17:36:41 GMT -5
Well, in the letters of book 6, Joss did say that he forgot that Warren was dead.... So, he forgets things
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47kwest
Potential Slayer
"This is where the fun begins!"[Mo0:37]
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Post by 47kwest on Aug 18, 2010 17:52:17 GMT -5
But again I have to ask with what care? Your's? So Joss forgot about Warren. Somehow I knew that would come up. Can't we all just be thankful that the future for us and these characters exist? Balls to the wall baby! Who know's what they'll do. Shouldn't that be the joy? Stop thinking about how, why or what and allow them to be creative and new and maybe wrong, it is after all an art form. Stop putting constrictions on where or what you the reader thinks these characters should be. It's not fair, and ultimately very close-minded. In the whedonverse anything is possible and that's why we love it, tie it down you destroy that which you love.
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spurtyknowledge
Rogue Demon Hunter
I'm wired to the world.
"She told them that the only grace they could have was the grace they could imagine."[Mo0:25]
Posts: 411
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Post by spurtyknowledge on Aug 18, 2010 17:59:40 GMT -5
The potential greatness of this move far outweighs any concern, in my honest opinion.
I may be biased, because as some of you know I did not enjoy After the Fall as a continuation to the series, and have had far more issues with the IDW Angel series than I've had with even the worst moments in BTVS Season Eight. I do however definitely appreciate all the effort that IDW and the writers put into all Angel related projects thus far.
What I would like to see from Darkhorse is further development of strong, canon-acceptable stories written by prominent writers of both series. I would very much like to see some issues penned by the likes of Tim Minear, Drew Goddard, Jeffrey Bell, David Fury, Steven S. DeKnight, among others whenever they are available, so as to return the characters to a vibe which I felt was largely missing from the IDW comics (I realize some fans do not agree with me).
I, for one, will be glad to see Betta George go. Sorry, Lynch.
Perhaps this could finally jump start a Faith series with appearances by characters like Spike.
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leyki
Common Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 90
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Post by leyki on Aug 18, 2010 18:03:05 GMT -5
I just know how Joss likes his characters evolving, and grow up, and change. And i just hate the fact that after so many years, the Bangel things comes up again....
Come on, Buffy has moved on so much, and she just fells into his arms almost instantly.... Angel has changed so much, he has so many important things in his life, and basically, he is still into Buffy....
Sorry, i just can't bite it.... I am waiting for the end of the season, hoping that it will explain things differently and much better....
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47kwest
Potential Slayer
"This is where the fun begins!"[Mo0:37]
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Post by 47kwest on Aug 18, 2010 18:30:50 GMT -5
I just know how Joss likes his characters evolving, and grow up, and change. And i just hate the fact that after so many years, the Bangel things comes up again.... Come on, Buffy has moved on so much, and she just fells into his arms almost instantly.... Angel has changed so much, he has so many important things in his life, and basically, he is still into Buffy.... Sorry, i just can't bite it.... I am waiting for the end of the season, hoping that it will explain things differently and much better.... Think that maybe it's cyclical, that maybe by bringing something back to the beginning, it finds it's end. Let's face it Buffy and Angel have never had true closer. Maybe this is it. Closer good, non-closer...infinite.
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leyki
Common Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 90
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Post by leyki on Aug 18, 2010 18:34:15 GMT -5
I just know how Joss likes his characters evolving, and grow up, and change. And i just hate the fact that after so many years, the Bangel things comes up again.... Come on, Buffy has moved on so much, and she just fells into his arms almost instantly.... Angel has changed so much, he has so many important things in his life, and basically, he is still into Buffy.... Sorry, i just can't bite it.... I am waiting for the end of the season, hoping that it will explain things differently and much better.... Think that maybe it's cyclical, that maybe by bringing something back to the beginning, it finds it's end. Let's face it Buffy and Angel have never had true closer. Maybe this is it. Closer good, non-closer...infinite. I hope you're right.
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47kwest
Potential Slayer
"This is where the fun begins!"[Mo0:37]
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Post by 47kwest on Aug 18, 2010 20:15:10 GMT -5
Think that maybe it's cyclical, that maybe by bringing something back to the beginning, it finds it's end. Let's face it Buffy and Angel have never had true closer. Maybe this is it. Closer good, non-closer...infinite. I hope you're right. If your family was dependent on a certain amount to pay the bills, what would you do? Not cynical, just living in grown-up world. Really just asking when it comes to stories. What choice would you make? How would you end it? How would you continue it? What ultimately is the choice for these characters? Art for art's sake is what I want to believe. but really it's about paying the bills.
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 18, 2010 20:34:38 GMT -5
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47kwest
Potential Slayer
"This is where the fun begins!"[Mo0:37]
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Post by 47kwest on Aug 18, 2010 20:45:30 GMT -5
Why teach? DO! They really need somebody!
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Post by wenxina on Aug 18, 2010 20:55:04 GMT -5
Unless they're doing exactly what their PR peeps are telling them. Coming out with an official statement right away quells some of the most heated discussion. In order to tailor the statement to better address the fears and concerns, they need to know where the fandom's head is at. Letting things go for a bit not only builds hype (people are less likely to forget something they debated passionately about) but also gives them a better gauge of the fandom milieu.
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 18, 2010 20:55:07 GMT -5
Haha, I am job hunting currently. So Dark Horse, IDW...? Ring me up please. Unless they're doing exactly what their PR peeps are telling them. Coming out with an official statement right away quells some of the most heated discussion. In order to tailor the statement to better address the fears and concerns, they need to know where the fandom's head is at. Letting things go for a bit not only builds hype (people are less likely to forget something they debated passionately about) but also gives them a better gauge of the fandom milieu. It's definitely possible DH would want to go that route. It could also be a case where there was a disconnect with their announcement plan and what ended up getting released in the issue. After Covergate, I wouldn't think DH would want a reveal to happen this way again, where it can spin so out of control in the fandom. Generally it's better to control the story yourself. It also appears like IDW wasn't prepared for this announcement so soon either, as I think we would have had a response from them right away. For all we know there's a memo on someone's desk asking them to remove that bit from the issue. It's impossible to tell anymore, with the bombs that have been dropped over the years, hence all this crazy speculation on my part.
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Post by wenxina on Aug 18, 2010 21:24:15 GMT -5
Well, IDW's delayed response goes along my line of reasoning as well, since it wasn't just a guess on my part about just Dark Horse, but rather IDW as well. By seeing concerns voiced, IDW can better tailor their statement as well. I dunno... it would be highly remiss if this is yet another case of miscommunication. As far as I know, Allie was in contact with IDW last week, and from both his and Chris Ryall's tweets, it sounded like they were doing some story plotting and then some. IDW shouldn't have been caught with their pants around their ankles. I'm guessing that the official statements from both publishers should either make their rounds on Thursday, or Friday at the latest.
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BlueJay
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Resident Charmed Fan[Mo0:12]
Posts: 631
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Post by BlueJay on Aug 18, 2010 21:34:47 GMT -5
Aw shucks. While I didn't really care for a lot of the post-After the Fall storyline, I'm enjoying the current story as well as all the spin-off miniseries and Angel backstories. And IDW is able to do this because they have several writers/artists working on concurrent projects.
However, with Season Eight, Dark Horse takes their time. They release about 10 issues a year with a structured plot and a consistent interior artist. While the issues are usually spectacular (not so much recently), it's a very slow, drawn out process. And frankly, I'm sick of it. I'd rather have 3 decent noncanon stories than one so-so canon story. There. I said it.
If Darkhorse wants the Angel series, fine. But I don't want Angel to be treated like the neglected stepchild and have it be all about Buffy Buffy Buffy. I want an Angel SERIES. I want references to After the Fall. I want continuity. I do NOT want "Things were funky in LA".
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47kwest
Potential Slayer
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Post by 47kwest on Aug 18, 2010 21:37:23 GMT -5
Really it all sounds rather chicken&$@" to me. They are all big boys they knew a contract was coming up. Maybe Joss' world took fandom to heart with the way they were expressing discontent with iDW. But truthfully think about it, If they knew, they kept it a secret. What does that say to you the fan?I take it back , Kinda brilliant if you ask me, on both sides.
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Post by wenxina on Aug 18, 2010 21:43:01 GMT -5
@mr. Jay: We've been told that there will be concurrent books running in S9. As in multiple books at a time. Most months should see us getting about two books. Meaning that the "10 books a year" scheme is out the window. Which is wise... stretching out the story too long is S8's Achilles' heel. The way the stories will work in S9 is that if there's a story to be told, there'll be an entire series dedicated to that character. It will all deal with a larger story, but it won't just be about Buffy. I'm sure Buffy will get her own main title too, but each of the different series will be named differently.
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