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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Aug 22, 2010 18:23:03 GMT -5
^^ Betta Georges was in Asylum and Shadow Puppets before After the fall.
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 22, 2010 18:39:23 GMT -5
Plus, with Spike most likely being canon, we'll see some Asylum/Shadow Puppets alum in that as well.
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SOMNAMBULIST 2.0
Novice Witch
Forever ♥ Always
From beneath you, it devours[Mo0:15]
Posts: 239
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Post by SOMNAMBULIST 2.0 on Aug 22, 2010 18:41:00 GMT -5
I am so out of the loop in both the Buffy and Angel comic-books. But...
I can't wait to see what happens.
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Shane
Potential Slayer
I saw a baby today.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 135
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Post by Shane on Aug 22, 2010 18:48:49 GMT -5
Have the hounds been released? *tents fingertips* Eeeexcellent! But really, Buffy and Angel under one roof means Joss can tell his stories any way he wants so I'm quite excited about all this. Yay! As for the Angel franchise, hopefully DH can do something with it that appeals to the current Angel fans as well. I haven't been following it for quite some time so even if DH's stories are similar to what we're getting now, it won't be much of an adjustment for me. (However, if they decide to do their own stuff, I'd rather it all be part of Joss's vision and not just something they publish because they have to come up with stories about what happens to the characters next.) And I expect Lynch's Spike series to do quite well, especially in light of this news (loyal IDW fans, ladies and gentlemen. Take a bow!). So this should make DH consider giving Spike his own ongoing as well. ^^ And, yeah, Lynch should definitely come over to DH. Though, I'd be surprised if IDW hasn't already signed him up for one of their other titles. Which, as we all know, will only happen if he isn't busy with his screenplaying gigs or helping Captain America save the planet.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 22, 2010 20:34:01 GMT -5
I'm not even sure if you disagreed with me there or not You confuse. Me feel stupid. You use more word. Sorry, the concept of "non-canon characters rendering a canon story non-canonical" caused my mechanical brain to overload. I must go find Willow so that she can repair me.
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BlueJay
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Resident Charmed Fan[Mo0:12]
Posts: 631
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Post by BlueJay on Aug 22, 2010 21:30:28 GMT -5
Darkhorse and IDW are making the effort to have the IDW ongoing Angel series lead into Darkhorse's Season Eight. With that said, I'm pretty much accepting the IDW title as canon until Joss and co. explicitly tell us what really happened. Joss doesn't seem interested in telling us Angel's story as he is Buffy's. He let IDW do their own thing for four years and now he's only interested in having it all sync, not having to re-write anything. So that tells me right there, that A) Joss is letting post-AtF be canon, or B) Joss doesn't give a crap about Angel's canon status. And if it turns out that Joss doesn't care, then why should I care?
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Post by riker on Aug 22, 2010 22:37:01 GMT -5
Plus, with Spike most likely being canon, we'll see some Asylum/Shadow Puppets alum in that as well. But just because people from Asylum/SP appear in a potentially-canon book doesn't mean that Asylum and SP are automatically canon as well. After the Fall should be considered Betta George's official first appearance in terms of canon.
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Post by riker on Aug 22, 2010 22:39:29 GMT -5
The way I see it is: After the Fall is explicitly canon, Lynch's other work is more-or-less canon, and everything else is non-canon but in-continuity. Something had to have happened between AtF and S8 and the other IDW comics are just optional gap-fillers. I like this explanation the best.
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 22, 2010 22:49:21 GMT -5
Plus, with Spike most likely being canon, we'll see some Asylum/Shadow Puppets alum in that as well. But just because people from Asylum/SP appear in a potentially-canon book doesn't mean that Asylum and SP are automatically canon as well. After the Fall should be considered Betta George's official first appearance in terms of canon. Don't get me wrong, I still think Asylum/Shadow Puppets are murky canon, I was just pointing out the fact.
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on Aug 23, 2010 3:16:52 GMT -5
Well, on the Buffy wikia, it says that Betta George's first official canon appearance was After the Fall. Asylum was his first non-canon appearance. Just like the Scooby's very first appearance was in the pilot episode, which is non-canon, which makes Welcome to the Hellmouth their canon first appearance
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Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Aug 23, 2010 5:09:02 GMT -5
'Asylum' is one thing but 'Shadow Puppets'? I can't see how that could be canon. :? "After the fall" has to be safe.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Aug 23, 2010 6:10:33 GMT -5
Why should Shadow Puppets be any less canon than Asylum?
@ The Night Lord
Anyone can edit Buffy wiki, just like on ordinary wikipedia, so that's not a good source.
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Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Aug 23, 2010 7:08:59 GMT -5
For the fact that they all turn into puppets...mainly Fred and Cordy plus Cordy and Connor making out ...
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Aug 23, 2010 7:37:21 GMT -5
So? What does that have to do with canon? Is Smile Time less canon than other episodes because of Angel-puppet?
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Aug 23, 2010 12:57:44 GMT -5
For the fact that they all turn into puppets...mainly Fred and Cordy plus Cordy and Connor making out ... Those weren't the actual characters, but Smile Time copies with basic caricatures of their personalities. There's even multiple Wesleys IIRC. Only Angel, Spike, Lorne, and Betta George have been actually turned into puppets. I agree that Asylum = Shadow Puppets in terms of canon. Plus, with Spike most likely being canon, we'll see some Asylum/Shadow Puppets alum in that as well. But just because people from Asylum/SP appear in a potentially-canon book doesn't mean that Asylum and SP are automatically canon as well. After the Fall should be considered Betta George's official first appearance in terms of canon. Ah, but if specific character development and relationships are continued from those stories into canon, doesn't that make them kind of canon? Spike and George are all pally in AtF, which is a direct result of the events in Asylum/Puppets. They might not be explicitly canon but you can't really ignore them either... Brian's stories have such continuity between them in terms of character development that it feels weird to count AtF and Spike as canon and not the rest, it'd be like saying some episodes of the show are non-canon. Definitely a grey area.
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 23, 2010 13:15:07 GMT -5
I'm all for canonizing everything main title related, but I think for now its a murky area. If Joss actually addresses certain events from the murky titles, then I think it's safe to say they're canon now as well. Just have to wait and see really.
I imagine the best we'll get is clear canon (AtF/Spike) and murky canon (Spike: After the Fall, #23+, etc.).
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Post by riker on Aug 23, 2010 14:13:51 GMT -5
For the fact that they all turn into puppets...mainly Fred and Cordy plus Cordy and Connor making out ... Those weren't the actual characters, but Smile Time copies with basic caricatures of their personalities. There's even multiple Wesleys IIRC. Only Angel, Spike, Lorne, and Betta George have been actually turned into puppets. I agree that Asylum = Shadow Puppets in terms of canon. But just because people from Asylum/SP appear in a potentially-canon book doesn't mean that Asylum and SP are automatically canon as well. After the Fall should be considered Betta George's official first appearance in terms of canon. Ah, but if specific character development and relationships are continued from those stories into canon, doesn't that make them kind of canon? area.[/quote] No. Since only AtF is canon, Spike and Betta George's friendship could have originated in an untold canon story that's not Asylum.
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 23, 2010 16:12:18 GMT -5
Here is the complete Q&A with Chris Ryall from the IDW boards. Great stuff. I'm glad the oversized AtF collection is still in the works, and it looks like we're getting a John Byrne collection of sorts, with Blood & Trenches, Angel vs. Frankensetin I/II and Lorne.
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Post by riker on Aug 23, 2010 17:49:24 GMT -5
Good to hear about the complete AtF collection. It would be nice if Buffy Season 8 got the same treatment over two volumes.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Aug 23, 2010 23:22:30 GMT -5
You know what got old a few years ago?
The word "canon."
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