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Post by buffysmglover on Feb 17, 2008 17:33:23 GMT -5
"Joss doesn't like Spike." ...Huh? A listen to the commentaries on "Angel: Season Five" would change your opinion 'quick-fast.' Joss does like Spike, quite a bit. IDK if it was an interview or a commentary, but he really wasn't going to keep Spike or Angel. He wanted all the vampires to stay bad. EDIT Everyone's hating me right now, but I'm not making this up.
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Enisy
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Post by Enisy on Feb 17, 2008 17:47:44 GMT -5
From what I've heard, Brian Lynch said Joss adores Spike, and as Pat said, the commentaries would back that up. I think you're jumping to conclusions.
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Post by buffysmglover on Feb 17, 2008 17:51:23 GMT -5
Brian Lynch said Joss adores Spike. I think you're jumping to conclusions. Maybe he adores him NOW. Seriously, I'm not crazy and I'm not trying to be mean or diss anyone. In the beginning of Buffy, he did not want good vampires to be a major part of the show.
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leigh
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Post by leigh on Feb 17, 2008 18:06:17 GMT -5
As far as Spike goes, I don't miss him in season 8 right now, but I wouldn't mind him showing up eventually. He's still one of my favourite characters.
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Enisy
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Post by Enisy on Feb 17, 2008 18:07:25 GMT -5
I've only heard that from James Marsters, and he squints so hard to discern the writers' intent that he often misses the big picture. Some of Joss's favourite episodes ever are Angel(us)- or Spike-centric (like Innocence and Fool for Love, both of which make his top 10 lists), and as the show progressed, he allowed it to move into more grey areas, where vampires could fit in as regulars.
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patxshand
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Post by patxshand on Feb 17, 2008 18:14:16 GMT -5
Smglover, just because Joss didn't plan to keep the Angel and Spike characters for as long as he did doesn't mean he "doesn't like them." That would be the same as saying a man doesn't like cupcakes because he originally intended to eat one but then ended up eating seven. What Joss was saying was that he original plan for the story didn't include arcs for these characters. But character intrigue, plus the story broadening, plus the actors performance pushed Joss to keep them in the story. But by no means does that very well-known interview even slightly suggest that he doesn't like the Spike character.
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Enisy
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Post by Enisy on Feb 17, 2008 18:18:00 GMT -5
Ooo, "very well-known interview"? Show?
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patxshand
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Post by patxshand on Feb 17, 2008 18:20:45 GMT -5
I was just referring to the one where Joss says that he didn't originally intend to keep Angel, which I believe is in the commentary for Welcome to the Hellmouth/The Harvest, but I'm not sure. There's one quite like it, though I couldn't find a link if I tried, where Joss said he didn't intend to keep Spike around either. It was the one SMGLover was referring to, but I was just saying that I think it had been misinterpreted in this case. Joss likes Spike very, very much.
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Enisy
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Post by Enisy on Feb 17, 2008 18:26:30 GMT -5
Yeah, I very much agree with your cupcake analogy.
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Post by buffysmglover on Feb 17, 2008 18:39:16 GMT -5
Smglover, just because Joss didn't plan to keep the Angel and Spike characters for as long as he did doesn't mean he "doesn't like them." That would be the same as saying a man doesn't like cupcakes because he originally intended to eat one but then ended up eating seven. What Joss was saying was that he original plan for the story didn't include arcs for these characters. But character intrigue, plus the story broadening, plus the actors performance pushed Joss to keep them in the story. But by no means does that very well-known interview even slightly suggest that he doesn't like the Spike character. Make doesn't be didn't. I think i already said that. I was just referring to the one where Joss says that he didn't originally intend to keep Angel, which I believe is in the commentary for Welcome to the Hellmouth/The Harvest, but I'm not sure. There's one quite like it, though I couldn't find a link if I tried, where Joss said he didn't intend to keep Spike around either. It was the one SMGLover was referring to, but I was just saying that I think it had been misinterpreted in this case. Joss likes Spike very, very much. I just searched for 20 minutes and no link.
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patrick
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Post by patrick on Feb 17, 2008 19:30:41 GMT -5
Oh, I am so not entering the discussion.... Enisy, I do not care for Spuffy. Don't want to diss you, but I don't. We'll leave it at that. ;D
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Enisy
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Post by Enisy on Feb 17, 2008 19:44:32 GMT -5
Uh... okay? We weren't discussing Spike/Buffy in this thread, anyway...
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Whedon Fan
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Post by Whedon Fan on Feb 17, 2008 20:24:52 GMT -5
Can I just quickly add that buffysmglover is not lying at all, it is true Joss said that it confused him at the beginning of Buffy when they liked Spike and Angel as he had always thought vampires=bad but the fans loved them both so much he kept them both around and obvioulsy grew to love them as he gave Angel a spin off. I don't remember him saying he hated them just that it confused him as to why people like them so much. Spike was going to be killed off at the end of his first episode "School Hard" and Angel was going to be killed off in what I think is the 8th episode in the first season of Buffy, called "Angel". Anyway so you all think that Spike would train the slayers it would have to be at night though or inside the castle with him not able to go out in the day time. How about Spike's reaction on Twilight or Lady Genieve Savidge/Roden??
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Post by buffysmglover on Feb 17, 2008 20:30:54 GMT -5
Can I just quickly add that buffysmglover is not lying at all, it is true Joss said that it confused him at the beginning of Buffy when they liked Spike and Angel as he had always thought vampires=bad but the fans loved them both so much he kept them both around and obvioulsy grew to love them as he gave Angel a spin off. I don't remember him saying he hated them just that it confused him as to why people like them so much. Spike was going to be killed off at the end of his first episode "School Hard" and Angel was going to be killed off in what I think is the 8th episode in the first season of Buffy, called "Angel". Anyway so you all think that Spike would train the slayers it would have to be at night though or inside the castle with him not able to go out in the day time. How about Spike's reaction on Twilight or Lady Genieve Savidge/Roden?? Thank you very much for that. And hate is a strong word. I shouldn't have used it. Spike would think he could beat Twilight. He always thinks he can beat the BigBad. He probably wouldn't kill Genevieve though.
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Post by Wyndam on Feb 17, 2008 20:39:25 GMT -5
I like Spike just as much as the next guy, but I prefer him on "Angel." It always seemed like a better fit to me, and I am enjoying him in After the Fall.
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commandercool
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Post by commandercool on Feb 17, 2008 23:58:33 GMT -5
I like Spike just as much as the next guy, but I prefer him on "Angel." It always seemed like a better fit to me, and I am enjoying him in After the Fall. I agree, absolutely. He was perfect in Angel. He got to the point where he was superfluous in Buffy, but he fit right in on Angel. Good times.
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barryshaft
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Post by barryshaft on Feb 19, 2008 15:43:49 GMT -5
I haven't really noticed his absence at all, and Spike is one of my favourite characters. His character's just moved on, he really fits in with Angel's gang and his character developed a lot in the last season of Angel, more so then he did during Buffy's last.
I think a really big difference in Season 8 is the lack of the Scooby dynamic, only Xander and Buffy really talk anymore. Willow and Buffy are on the outs, Giles and Buffy don't even speak to each other anymore. No wonder Buffy's feeling cut off. Correct me if I'm wrong, but have Buffy and Dawn even had a scene together since their first in #1? Usually it's Xander and Dawn or Willow and Dawn. I think maybe I remember a very brief scene in one of the later issues... I also think Dawn's giant issue isn't nearly as amusing as Whedon thinks it is and is actually somewhat contributing to the lack of interaction between a lot of the characters.
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Post by spikeluv13 on Feb 20, 2008 0:37:59 GMT -5
i do miss spike (surprise surprise!) he added so much to the show. The empathy, the sex appeal, the comedic one liners. I loved Spuffy. Spike actually loved her for who she was, always. So many people expected so much from her and he accepted her. He was great for her and the show. I Def. miss spike in the comics.
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dane5by5
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Post by dane5by5 on Feb 20, 2008 1:57:51 GMT -5
I miss Spike too! I was a big Spuffy fan. I much preferred Buffy & Spike to Angel and Riley. Spike really brought something to both shows. He was definitely the reason season five of Angel was so good. Well, him among other things. He had a great dynamic with Angel. I really wish he could be included in "season eight".
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Slayer489
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Post by Slayer489 on Feb 20, 2008 10:23:10 GMT -5
I'm fine with Spike being on Angel now. I miss him from Buffy but it's good that he's still around and that his story can move in a different direction.
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