|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Dec 3, 2010 19:24:49 GMT -5
That's certainly an interesting take. But I haven't heard anything canonical about where Willow and Kennedy actually live. At the beginning of the Goddesses & Monsters one-shot, they're in San Francisco where Kennedy is training her group of Slayers. So they were based there at that time, at least.
|
|
|
Post by DorothyFan1 on Dec 3, 2010 19:42:43 GMT -5
That's certainly an interesting take. But I haven't heard anything canonical about where Willow and Kennedy actually live. At the beginning of the Goddesses & Monsters one-shot, they're in San Francisco where Kennedy is training her group of Slayers. So they were based there at that time, at least. Then the info that Buffy is chasing a vampire in San Fransisco could be just a coincidence. Word I'm hearing this might be Harmony that Buffy is chasing. However I'm really curious to know how DHC is going to justify Season 9 with a Willow mini if she has no more powers.
|
|
Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
|
Post by Paul on Dec 3, 2010 19:55:57 GMT -5
Interesting issue. I'm kind of past the point where Season Eight has any emotional impact on me (as I've said before, I'm burned out and just want it to end already) so maybe that's why I'm not as disappointed as some of the responses I've read. Giles dying I'm okay with. As much as I love him, the character has been underdeveloped for years now, his character arc ended around S4/S5 and he's just been kind of hanging around ever since. The only way he would ever receive any new development was in a spin-off, either Ripper or Faith, but it never happened. It's a shame he's been killed off now that a Faith comic supposedly is in the works, but hopefully his legacy will continue in that series. At least he got a nice scene with Buffy before he went. RIP Giles. The Master and Warren... what were the point of them ever being brought back in the first place? They added nothing to the series except cheap shock value. I defended Warren's resurrection at the time because I loved his Hellraiser-style visual and hoped it would result in good development for Willow. But it didn't. The Master was even worse... dead for almost 7 seasons and brought back for a shitty cameo. F***ing pointless. Like others, I was disturbed by the gruesome deaths of the Slayers. The artwork was powerful but I didn't like seeing supposed icons of female empowerment used as cheap canon fodder. If they wanted to show the casualties of war, they should have killed Leah and Rowena... characters we knew and could mourn a little. Just seeing dozens of girls massacred in such a horrible and impersonal manner... it was uncomfortable. Positive things... I love the Old Ones and seeing the wacky vagina monster and other demons was cool. The artwork in general was pretty strong... the close-ups in particular were beautiful. Buffy's look of horror at Giles' death was very memorable. I like that the Seed was destoyed and we seem to be heading toward the Fray future. I liked Willow and Buffy kicking ass. This review ended up sounding a little more negative than I intended, I actually did enjoy the issue, as flawed as the overall story may be. Because right now Willow is completely useless as a character without her powers. Interesting that so many fans think Willow's only value as a character was the fact that she had superpowers. I for one am very interested in seeing how she copes with the loss of something that defined her for so long, especially since she's getting her own series so will be getting a lot of focus. Willow, when written by someone who understands her, is a very complicated and fascinating character psychologically.
|
|
|
Post by DorothyFan1 on Dec 3, 2010 20:15:05 GMT -5
Willow better get some kind of compensation for losing those magic powers. How can she be of *any* use without them? One intriguing clue actually comes from ToYL when Willow explains to Mel that she's not human anymore.
|
|
Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
|
Post by Paul on Dec 3, 2010 20:25:00 GMT -5
Willow better get some kind of compensation for losing those magic powers. How can she be of *any* use without them? One intriguing clue actually comes from ToYL when Willow explains to Mel that she's not human anymore. Why does she need to be "of use" to be worth telling stories about? Can't she just be a good character with an interesting personality? In X-Men history, Storm lost her powers, yet beat Cyclops in battle anyway and won leadership of the team. She led the X-Men for many years with no powers whatsoever. Joss referenced this in his Astonishing run, so maybe he'll be using this as some inspiration for Season Nine?
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Dec 3, 2010 20:25:16 GMT -5
I don't think for one minute that Willow is going to accept the loss of her powers. I think her story in season 9 will be her quest to get them back somehow, and that should make for an interesting story.
I hope we get to see Aluwyn again.
|
|
|
Post by VampSlayer on Dec 3, 2010 20:31:12 GMT -5
Just read it, and... Just wow. This is probably the best issue, IMHO. I still hate the overall story, but this issue was just really strong.
Giles... Oh, Giles. I want to cry; I really do. But I can't. The way his death mirrored Jenny's was absolutely perfect. Giles has been on the sidelines for so long now, and he went out trying to save everyone, save Buffy; To do what he thought she couldn't... It really was time for him to go, it seems. Now Buffy has no one to father her, and do the hard things; I know Giles left her in season 6 for that matter, but he showed in this very issue that he still will do anything for Buffy, as her father. Rest in peace, Giles.
Willow was awesome. And seeing her at the ending... I can't WAIT to see where she's going next. I'm curious if this lack of magic will come between her and Kennedy, or make them closer. And it seems will is completely powerless, so where does she get her magics from in the Fray timeline? I'm sensing this'll be in her spinoff series? (Which I'm VERY eager for.)
Buffy, and even Xander were great here. Loved them both.
Can I just say how much I love that Buffy is her own most unexpected betrayer? She's done so many things lately, and said so many things, that we fans have looked down on her recently. She slept with the enemy, she ignored the death of hundreds, and was just so... Un-Buffy. She had literally become an alter of herself; Someone who was tarnished and blinded by things. But she came around, slowly, over the last few issues. And it looks like she won't be sleeping with the enemy any time soon, as 'Angel' has gone way too far this time. He may have murdered hundreds of slayers by will, but now he's murdered Giles by force... Buffy can't ignore that.
-Sigh- I really wish I enjoyed the overall season, but after issue 21, IMO, the season lost it's touch. The story got out of hand, and went all over the place. Sadly. I hope the finale issue, and Season 9, can pull outta this. Make it a character driven story again, please. No more super sex scenes. No more out of hand plots. I beg.
Also, I'm super interested in Amy again. I think we'll be seeing a lot more of her... Or I hope so at least.
|
|
|
Post by DorothyFan1 on Dec 3, 2010 20:47:34 GMT -5
I don't think for one minute that Willow is going to accept the loss of her powers. I think her story in season 9 will be her quest to get them back somehow, and that should make for an interesting story. I hope we get to see Aluwyn again. Kitty Twilight is still alive, correct? Amy is still alive, right? I can see a scenario assuming Joss takes it there...where Kitty Twilight offers Willow a chance to win back her powers. The Amy situation is interesting because now she's without any powers...what exactly does she do? I think Willow and Amy will team up. And I agree that Willow will not sit down until she gets some kind of compensation for those lost powers. Since Willow is gifted with computer skills...I can see her rummaging through Warren's experiments to find a solution.
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Dec 3, 2010 21:18:58 GMT -5
Kitty Twilight is still alive, correct? Amy is still alive, right? I can see a scenario assuming Joss takes it there...where Kitty Twilight offers Willow a chance to win back her powers. Kitty Twilight is back in Twilight, cut off from us like all other worlds. I assume we have seen the last of it. Hopefully, it will wither and die without any connection to its creators. The Amy situation is interesting because now she's without any powers...what exactly does she do? Suicide? I think Willow and Amy will team up. And I agree that Willow will not sit down until she gets some kind of compensation for those lost powers. Since Willow is gifted with computer skills...I can see her rummaging through Warren's experiments to find a solution. Amy seemed to be toying with the idea of trying to patch things up with Willow and the others... she might have been starting to have second thoughts about the villain thing, and with Warren not there to goad her anymore, I would say some kind of reconciliation with the others might be possible. Willow might even meet with Kimiko and other witches who have had dealings with Saga Vasuki.
|
|
stasab
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 4
|
Post by stasab on Dec 4, 2010 2:50:52 GMT -5
I don't know about this issue, I wanted to like it, I really did, but I was really underwhelmed by the art near the end. I feel near the end, the drawing of small perfect circles as eyes took away from the emotional impact of Giles's death I should have felt. His lifeless body was drawn, yes.. but instead of something depicting something daunting, his body was shown with the circles as eyes. It just took away from the scene for me.
Again, with Angel's reaction near the end with the circles as eyes. It took away for me. Also...I would have rather seen more of Buffy's reaction to everything going on after she destroyed the seed, rather than the multiple panels of Willow's reaction.
Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I really feel like I should have felt more for this issue than I did.
|
|
|
Post by VampSlayer on Dec 4, 2010 5:11:42 GMT -5
I saw that some people posted tributes to Giles, in memory... I decided to make this. *Please note that the timing in the video got messed up somehow, towards the middle. It really makes me mad too, 'cause I worked so hard to give Giles' death the most epic notes...*
|
|
alex_krycek
Rogue Demon Hunter
keeper of the x-files
sorry, i just remembered seeing king ralph[Mo0:30]
Posts: 484
|
Post by alex_krycek on Dec 4, 2010 5:46:19 GMT -5
does anybody think it remotely possible that angel might just say, "hey, i'm a little confused about what all happened, but i'm not sorry about any of it?" what if by doing the wrong thing, he created the best scenario for everybody else? the old hindsight is 20-20 thing.
what if this was the lesser of two apocolypses that he had to choose?
|
|
angelsclone
Common Vampire
Live Free || Twi Hard[Mo0:6]
Posts: 54
|
Post by angelsclone on Dec 4, 2010 7:07:38 GMT -5
well HOPEFULLY.. as Angels in the future atm over at IDW, its possible we might catch glimpes of what this worse future is like.. although disappointingly we'll only see what happens to Team Angel and not Buffy and co.
|
|
richie
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:1]
Posts: 170
|
Post by richie on Dec 4, 2010 9:32:01 GMT -5
ok i just read... i they killed giles? better, angel killed giles? even better angel killed giles like he killed jenny? its just too epic.... i think this issue made me see how season 9 will pay off.... and yes i think angel could redeem himself.... its not gonna be easy... but i think he will... someday... im a bangel... but right now... i think buffy and angel should have a talk just like the talk when buffy went to the police station to see faith and angel sent her off... i think buffy should make angel gone... he killed her father figure... even though it was not him, but as scott said... he have some blame.... he sign up for the twilight role... i love angel... i watch more angel reruns them buffy... and i think where the charecter is right now its the perfect place to tell a story... and a good one... but i think they'll need cordy and wesley... that would be perfect... but since the magic is gone... well i cant see they coming back... but having faith, illyria and connor would be great... after i dont know 4 years? i can tell you that im satisfayed with season 8... was a rough path, a turbulent one, but it payd off... where the sroty is right now, its just a good place, that IF joss gives a little atention could turn to be a great season of buffy to come.... so lets wait and see how issue 40 will left everybody and rest a little. cause i think the fans need a time to accept and digest what happend... and im so devastated about giles death, even though i saw it coming... i think season 8 end it all.... it just end... and now we gonna have a new beggining but with the memories and ghosts of the past....
|
|
|
Post by sosa lola on Dec 4, 2010 12:47:53 GMT -5
You want my reaction for this issue?
I cried. I cried so hard. It reminded me of Chosen, how tears started sliding down my cheeks the second Anya died –not just because Anya died, but also because it's the end. S8 is over. The ride is done. I mean, all the excitement about a new Chen cover, the giddiness I feel whenever a preview is released, the way I bite my nails when reading fans' reviews and hope everybody enjoyed the new issue, and the way I tap my foot restlessly wishing I could read the new issue so I can write questions to Jeanty (And Scott Allie before)
It's all over.
I know we still have #40 but it's mostly a setup for S9…
Buffy's reaction to Giles' death killed me! I cried for Giles' shocked eyes, for Buffy's fat rich tears, for Xander slapping Angel's hand away. I also cried for Willow's wide eyes –her reaction to losing magic and connection with Aluwyn is SO WELL DRAWN! I never thought I'd cry for Willow, but Jeanty made me cry despite of myself –it's like how Alyson H would make you cry for Willow on the show. My heart squeezed for Kennedy who rushed to hug Willow –knowing nothing about Snake Lady and all the crap Willow is doing behind her back.
I was horrified at the melting Slayers, that was so creepy and awful. I hope Satsu and Rowena survived.
I really loved the Spike scene. I love his faith in Buffy and his proud smile because she did it.
While I wish that Xander did something more than just stand around and watch, I personally didn't hate his role much. His faith in Buffy made me happy, brushing Angel's hand away and going to comfort Buffy was also good.
I feel really bad for Buffy. Everybody seems to hate her now and it breaks my heart. I can never imagine how hard it must have been for her: leading all these girls, being known worldwide and not in a good light, being rejected by Giles for Faith and by Xander for Dawn, and then hearing Willow blaming her for Tara's death and keeping Kennedy away from her so she wouldn't die. Pushing Satsu and Xander away so they won't get hurt. And then, in a moment of weakness, falls for Angel's lies –or probably not lies from his prospective- and causes the new apocalypse. I have nothing but love and sympathy for Buffy. She really needs a therapist and some time alone –away from everybody and everything.
What I disliked about the issue is Warren and Amy in Rome –I wish they stuck around and fought with the others. It would have redeemed them a bit. And why the hell is Rome okay when the whole world is facing the apocalypse?
|
|
rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
|
Post by rufio on Dec 4, 2010 13:08:57 GMT -5
I haven't even read the issue yet and I know that Giles dies! Oh well, I guess I've just always been one for spoilers. I LOVE Giles! How can you not? He's funny and a great character- totally the rock of the scoobies. Not to mention he was a hot badass when he was young. The scooby gang is all grown up now though, so it does seem like a natural point for his character to depart (gotta keep the drama going somehow). It should be interesting to see how the characters develop without his presence, because even though he wasn't physically there too much in Seasons 6 & 7, he was still just a call away.
Willow being without magic is brilliant. Bringing it back to season 1 Willow. Connecting to the fray storyline 200 yrs. in the future where willow says she's not human, I'm speculating that she could be a vengeance demon of sorts like Anya & Halfrek?? Would be a perfect time to bring back D'Hoffryn and mentions of Anya.
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Dec 4, 2010 13:24:33 GMT -5
It was actually Venice that Amy and Warren were in... St. Mark's Square. Which, considering the environmental disasters we were told were happening (including tsunamis) should be underwater. And should certainly not be thronged with calm tourists eating lunch and snapping pictures.
I'm fairly sure Satsu survived, and hope Rowena did. I wouldn't mind seeing them all graduate to major character status next season.
And I hope Willow can still walk, after that long fall with no magic to heal her.
|
|
Neil
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 187
|
Post by Neil on Dec 4, 2010 16:13:53 GMT -5
Giles dead.
This is the first time that I´m really thinking about letting Buffy go. I donßt really see the reason why it had to be Giles. It was already sad they haven´t used the character in the last season, but he is part of the core-four.
You could have had other characters dying to create a similiar effect, but Giles killed just by his kneck snapped. That´s not enough and it feels a little underachieving. Is Joss probably getting tired? Or is what Scott Allies´ choice? I got a notion like this. Correct?
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Dec 4, 2010 17:24:16 GMT -5
From Script to Page: Buffyfest goes behind the scenes of this issue HERE.
|
|
beeemkcl
Common Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 50
|
Post by beeemkcl on Dec 4, 2010 22:44:19 GMT -5
Review for Buffy #39
You know, it’d have been great if Illyria and Beck were there with Spike. And Spider and Co. They would have been very helpful in the fight. And if Beck’s power comes directly from an elemental by blood or whatever, she’d still have her powers. So far, there’s no indication that demons other than vampires are no more. But Beck can be a great slayer.
The other major problem so far is there’s been no mention of when Buffy and Angel were under an influence and how powerful that influence was.
Twilight the place and the thing still exists after the magic went. All that happened it seems is people and things on Earth cannot tap into power and magic from other dimensions or whatever. It doesn’t seem even that the Slayers lost their power. (Like one would assume that Kennedy would have reacted poorly to losing her power.)
Who’s the prince that needed to be saved? Spike seems to fit. TwilightAngel was going to kill him. Hopefully, it’s not made to be Angel in #40.
Who’s the betrayer? I skimmed some posts on sites, and read Scott Allie’s interviews. It’s not Buffy. Giles sacrificed his life trying to destroy the Seed and destroying the Seed was the way to win the fight. Buffy didn’t think about or should have thought about the possible future negative consequences of the Slayer spell. She needed it to defeat the First Evil who was about to overrun the Earth with UberVamps and become solid. This time, she knew that destroying the Seed would win her this current apocalyptic battle. She shouldn’t have been thinking about how Willow and other witches would feel about it.
The real betrayers are Angel and Willow. And for similar reasons. They both were fully corrupted by the idea and reality of power and importance. And they both were doing what they were doing for selfish reasons. Angel wanted Buffy. Willow wanted magical power. And both were willing to sacrifice pretty much anything and everything to get what they wanted.
Character parts:
Spike:
Spike attacking TwilightAngel as a momentary distraction for him so Buffy could recoup is fine. Making it seem as if Spike thinks he can actually beat TwilightAngel is comical.
“Ah Christ, it’s finally happening… Angel gets the girl.” It seems that Spike thought that TwilightAngel would beat Buffy.
Before he takes off after the big demon thing, he refers to Buffy as “Slayer”. Spike doesn’t think to be there for Buffy or the others. He doesn’t even call Buffy “Buffy”. He refers to her as her job description. So using the big demon seems an excuse to leave and not much else. After the portal opened in “The Gift” (5.22), a dragon came out, lots of demons came out, and lots of real estate was changed into demonic real estate. Militaries or whatever could have destroyed that thing.
Buffy:
Buffy calls TwilightAngel “Angel” throughout. And in those first blue bubbles she seems to believe that Angelus and Twilight are Angel as well. This TwilightAngel is just another form of Angel. If this is what is meant to be realized and recognized, that’s a pretty striking and powerful statement and sentiment. Buffy before tried to bifurcate “Angel” and “Angelus” in her mind. So, if she now believes that “Angel”, “Angelus”, “Twilight”, etc. are the same, that’s a big shift.
Are those blue bubbles from Buffy? “Now we can hurt each other.” Is Buffy saying that Angel couldn’t hurt her before or that she also couldn’t hurt him before? I think the former.
And she seems to be putting the blame of TwilightAngel on herself and not on Angel, at least not totally on Angel.
Buffy mostly focuses on her fight with TwilightAngel. She tosses Spike away from TwilightAngel and maybe she does it towards his ship or not or assumes the ship would catch him or not. And then instead of stopping the jet or destroying it, she avoids it and the jet ends up killing soldiers and maybe Slayers.
Buffy does pretty well against TwilightAngel. Twilight was easily smacking SuperAngel around. Buffy actually hurts him.
Buffy follows TwilightAngel into the Seed room. Why? Probably Willow’s insistence that the Seed be protected. Buffy knows she’s weakened when near the Seed. And yet she’s able to kick TwilightAngel pretty hard.
Was Buffy ‘going easy’ on TwilightAngel before he killed Giles? She usually becomes more fierce and powerful when angered (see “Harsh Light of Day” (4.03) after Spike taunts her about her time with Angel), but a pimp slap that crashes TwilightAngel across the room into a wall?
Why does Buffy destroy the Seed instead of kill Angel: Well, Giles was trying to destroy the Seed. So, Buffy assumed it’d be the right thing to do.
A major problem for Angel’s continued existence is what will the justification be? Buffy knows that he is capable of destroying the entire world. She’s witnessed it with Angelus and Angel-Twilight and TwilightAngel. Angel’s done a lot of damage since she met him and he joined up with Wolfram and Hart which caused her to shun him and his crew during that time. Then he became Twilight. He just killed Giles after killing Jenny Calender before that. Does whatever feelings she may still have for him and his ability to help some people out warrant him being kept alive even though he’s a continued great danger to the entire planet? And this time, Buffy knows that even souled Angel cannot be counted on not to try to destroy the world. And she knows that he’s cursed with a soul to begin with and that that curse can be lifted.
Angel:
TwilightAngel seems pretty much Angel’s ‘id’. Or whatever. Part of Angel wanted to kill Spike; a large part of that reason is Spike being competition for himself, with Drusilla and Buffy, and for reputation and whatnot. So, ridding of Spike means he’s no longer competition for Buffy or for Angel’s ego and reputation. Angel beating up on Buffy? He’s most likely always wanted to be able to beat her up. Angel killing the Master? Angel didn’t like the Master, his hold on Darla, etc.
Plus, TwilightAngel refers to Buffy as “Buffy”, not “Mother”.
TwilightAngel killing Giles: Giles was trying to destroy the Seed. So, he could have been killed simply because of that. I don’t remember Angel being particularly against Giles.
“When they’re all gone, you’ll understand.” So, why was Angel keeping Giles, Faith, etc. alive? Or was he simply not under as much influence?
Xander:
Does nothing. In Angel season 5 Joss went to great lengths to make sure that J. Augustus Richards and Amy Acker were still playing important characters. He did that by making Gunn very useful to a law firm and making Fred a superfighter. Lorne was pretty much just there but he provided a voice of reason to Angel, at times.
In Season 8, the deficiencies of Xander and Dawn were increasingly apparent. Willow and Buffy became far more powerful and they needed that power to fight the bad guys. Xander’s only use was Buffy thinking he’d be loyal to her. Dawn’s only use was as a space-filler and a love interest for Xander.
What was Xander thinking about doing? Fighting TwilightAngel? Spike at least could somehow believe he could survive whatever was dished out until Buffy saved him. Xander’s a fragile human.
Giles:
So, he allies with some monsters to kill some other monsters and then gets the Scythe to… Kill TwilightAngel? Sure an enraged and grieving Giles went after Angelus. With a malatof cocktail and a flaming wooden bat. But Giles knew what a scaredy-cat Angel was and that Angelus wouldn’t be too difficult to beat on a bit. TwilightAngel is knocking around SuperBuffy. Although, I believe that he is doing an Obi-Wan Kenobi and sacrificing himself so that Buffy steps up and defeats TwilightAngel.
Giles says that TwilightAngel’s power would be lessened as well being near the Seed. But Buffy wouldn’t have known or counted on this.
Giles being Obi-Wan also makes sense in why he wouldn’t at least get Faith or another Slayer to do it.
For me, Giles sacrificing himself here for the greater good almost makes up for his betraying Buffy in Season 7 for selfish reasons.
To clarify, he was going after the Seed it seems, but he would know that he wouldn’t take TwilightAngel too long to get to him and could have assumed that when TwilightAngel did get to him, that TwilightAngel would kill him.
Willow:
Crazy. She first seems to refer to herself as “the goddess”.
She then just goes about killing. Of course she didn’t know those stone creatures saved a lot of lives.
She somehow survives that fall.
After her magic is gone, she calls out to the snake lady.
I get a sense that Willow would prefer that all Slayers, soldiers, Buffy, Faith, Xander, Giles, etc. all die in the battle as long as Willow gets to keep her power. To me, it makes perfect sense now why FutureWillow wanted specifically for Buffy to kill her. She deserves it.
Faith:
Good battlefield leader.
She’s not as hurt by the electrocution or whatever that was, meaning she’s more powerful than the Slayers that were created by the magic.
_______________
Overall, a good Issue.
Most cringeworthy moment: Angel at the end trying to rush to comfort Buffy.
|
|