Regarding Spike and Illyria

[BenTaylor3907]

Is Illyria is a guy or girl. I'm guessing a guy because he/she/it said... Illyria God-King. So why would Spike kiss Illria. Is it because Illyria shell is the body of Winifred Burkle? Does he have a smurf fetish?
And Illyria, I thought he/she/it would have higher standards. Because she said vampires were the muck at her feet. So is that guy on guy action. Could they have sex? I thought Illyria's suit couldn't come off.
Or could it be Fred trying to take control of Spike? But I don't think she would do that to Wesley. Please comment.

[Enisy]

Brian said we shouldn't worry about that cover, but hypothetically speaking: Illyria could develop an attraction to Spike, since I assume the body she's in comes with the corresponding... urges. She was definitely attracted to Wesley in Season 5 of Angel (partly due to the fragments of Fred's memories and feelings left in her), and she told Gunn "he is not unpleasant to her eyes". As for Spike, his attraction to Illyria has been apparent since Season 5 of Angel (with the banter), and textual since Issue 3 of Angel: After the Fall.

Having said that, I have quite a few objections to the prospect of a Spike/Illyria 'ship (all irrelevant to Illyria's gender), but I don't know the sitch yet, so I'll try not to jump to conclusions.

[gunsandsmoke]

Well I don't think that Illyria was a guy or a girl. She was a God. An "Old One" to be exact and everything we have ever learned about the Old Ones is that they were here before humans or demons. Men & Women are humans so when an Old One like Jasmine or Illyria become human in form they take a gender. In Illyria's case, it was Fred - a woman...

I think that Spike's attraction goes all the way back to Season 5 when Fred made him corporeal again. Nobody seemed to give a damn about him and thought it was better if he was just a ghost who couldn't touch or do anything. But Fred made it her mission to help Spike and I think he grew some feelings for her then (being the sucker for love that he is). It would only make sense that he harbors some old feelings and sadness when he looks at Illyria, but I think his relationship with Illyria is unique. Wes will always hold Fred's heart but Spike & Illyria can relate more. I just wonder what will happen when the Fred part comes out of Illyria and sees Gunn as a vampire.

[Enisy]

I saw more attraction to Illyria than I did to Fred on Spike's side, actually. There was some flirting in the beginning, but their relationship went in a different direction and became utterly platonic -- otherwise Spike wouldn't have been able to say lines like "Tons [of affection]. Loved the bird." so casually.

Doesn't this thread belong in the Spike: After the Fall section, by the way?

[gunsandsmoke]

I dunno if I totally agree with you on that. You should rewatch the beginning of Season 5 and tell me if you don't see some sort of connection that went a bit deeper than simple flirting. I know the writers never took it any further than platonic friendship, but I think that the cover with Spike kissing Illyria and his story where he finds Fred tells us more than we know.

[Enisy]

Angel: You're right. He does care about Buffy. So, where do you think he's gonna run off to as soon as his fresh, new feet hit the ground?
Fred: Is that what this is about? You're afraid he's gonna come back and try to get with your ex again?
Angel: I just want you to be careful, Fred, because I know how charming Spike can be.
Eve: He is quite the dish, with those eyes...
Fred: And the hair and the cheeks and -- What do you think I am, stupid? I know he's been playing me with the looks and the smiles.

Aside from that, my only point is that I can't see anything between them after a relationship so platonic that the L-word was thrown around casually. It would be another case of really beautiful incest, like Angel/Cordelia, in my eyes.

[gunsandsmoke]

Oh yeah, love is outta the question. No argument there. But I guess Fred was kinda the girl that made it easy for people to love her. Weather it was IN love like Gunn & Wes or just LOVE like Angel, Lorne & Spike, everyone loved that girl. I mean, that is part of the genius that Joss did by putting this nasty god who was the total opposite of Fred in her body. He knew everyone was going to take it hard.

I guess my point is that a lot has happened since they went to Hell. I know Fred is still trapped inside Illyria. Fred is Illyria's greatest threat because Fred's soul is messing her up. But Illyria and Spike seem to have seriously bonded and I believe we will see Spike grow quite fond of Illyria, only to have her taken from him when/if Fred returns.

[balesthebloody]

I have always seen 'Illyria' as a no gender parasite demon. Once 'it' takes over the host, taking on the appearance and memories of the host, then the gender is decided. So I think that the Illyria that we know is a female. Maybe some where in time it was once a male, but for now the jury says she to me. lol

[deathquaker]

Yep. Leery is a ginormous creature with bird legs and multiple tentacles for arms and more tentacles for hair. Our concept of gender doesn't really apply.

[Slayer489]

Why do we all suddenly think that Spike and Illyria are getting together? Did I miss something?

[Rachster]

May 18, 2008 4:03:14 GMT -5 Slayer489 said:

Why do we all suddenly think that Spike and Illyria are getting together? Did I miss something?

lol yeah I'm wondering that too so i guess i missed something

[Skytteflickan88]

May 18, 2008 4:11:11 GMT -5 Rachster said:

May 18, 2008 4:03:14 GMT -5 Slayer489 said:

Why do we all suddenly think that Spike and Illyria are getting together? Did I miss something?

lol yeah I'm wondering that too so i guess i missed something

On a Spike:After the fall cover Spike&Illyria can be seen kissing. That's what got us riled up.