"The Most Important Men In Both Your Lives"

[richieshag89]

...are lurks...

This one line is the reason i've read this issue so many times... Can someone help me figure out why it's been bothering me? Do you think that in between Buffy and Fray, spike or angel come back and Buffy ends up letting alot of people die to save one of them? or i dont know this line just bothered me- Any Thoughts?

[Joe]

Well I think it's quite simple. Buffy's true love is Angel. Angel = Vampire. Fray's Arch Nemesis is her brother Harth. Harth = Vampire. So all it means is the two men those two slayers think about the most are vampires..

Easy as very complicated pie

[Enisy]

I really, really doubt that was only about Angel, or only about Spike. Joss used almost the exact same phrasing in a 2003 interview, in reference to both of the vampires:

Joss Whedon: It was weird. I had a lot of structural juggling to do to figure out how to make sense of the two most important men in Buffy's life showing up at once. (Entertainment Weekly)

And that they'll turn up in Season 8 for an issue or two is a given, but I don't think anything sinister will happen... just good ol' fashioned fanservice.

[Wyndam]

Yeah the line was definitely directed at both Angel and Spike, and like enisy said it was mostly just fanservice (and to connect Buffy and Fray as well).

[wenxina]

Although, the validity of that statement is kinda iffy; if it was part of Future Willow's pitch to recruit Fray to her side... I say take it with a pinch of salt, just in case.

[KingofCretins]

I'm no fan of either of Buffy's vampire relationships, but I think it was more to do with Angel than with Spike, if it had to do with Spike at all. There's really no comparing the overall influence on who Buffy is no between the two of them. And, besides, is it as important what Joss has said, or what Willow would think of in that context?

I actually thought the line was really annoying and short-sighted.

[Patches]

Shipper fanservice. That was pretty much the only phrase that annoyed me in the whole issue. And really, Joss, was it really necessery to bring this whole vamp shipping up now? After so many years?

Note to mention to make parallels between Buffy/Angel/Spike and Mel/Harth. Who is incidently her brother?

So, how I will explain/fanwank that.

1. From the verse point of view: FDW is making a play. If she is out of mojo (which by the way is very cool, makes her an interesting adversary), she has to rely on her wits, which she probably sharpened somewhat during these 300 years. And vamps are not something which you can put against Buffy. She would make a really short work of them. FDW needs a bigger gun. A slayer.

2. From a possible shipper perspective: they are most important because of TRUE LOVE.

3. From a my own outsider perspective: lurks/vamps are important because they are demons who haunt both Mel and B. Harth is a demon of Mel, wearing face of her brother he is the one who she just cannot stake. Angel and Spike both thraumatized Buffy for years to come. She is still living under their shadow.

So, well, I guess we all will see in "most important men in both your lives" what we want to see.

[vampmogs]

I actually didn't pay much notice to the line when I first read it but it seems to have caught a lot of people's attention. It could mean either really in the way Willow says it, either talking about one vampire specifically or a number of vampires.

Unless something’s happened that only Future Willow's aware of I'd say if it had to be about *one* vampire specifically, she'd be talking about Angel. That's given everything we've seen up until this point in the story. From her perspective it'd seem the most logical. She was in the room when Buffy said she'd love him more than anything in this life and she was also quite a big supporter of the relationship and had "hoped for the best." She seemed pretty indifferent to Buffy and Spike during season seven and believed Buffy “used him to feel” in season six. So that's who she'd be probably referencing if she had to pick one.

It easily works as both of them though.

As for the validity of her statement? Well it's just Willow's opinion after all, you can take it however you like really. Buffy didn't say it, Willow did, I guess you'd have the ask the girl first hand her opinion on it.

[cheryl]

I got the impression that it meant Angel and Harth.

[soulbrave]

Buffy => Angel
Fray => Harth

[faithswatcher]

"the most important men...
So i think it just generally means Angel and Spike.
Willow was just setting up to show Fray the differences between them.
Buffy has 2, even three if you count Drac, male "lurks" that she hasnt killed, out of not seeing as a threat (spike S4), out of teaming up with them to take down other villains (WATG) or simply being in Love with them (A+S).
Frays most important Lurk is obviously Harth, is a villain. And hasn't been through the same amount as Buffy, so still see's stuff as black and white.

[beeemkcl]

Sept 10, 2008 11:54:19 GMT -5 faithswatcher said:

"the most important men...
So i think it just generally means Angel and Spike.

Yes, people.

Seriously, men means two or more.

If she were speaking about only Angel, she'd be saying that the most important man in your lives is a lurk.

Also, remember that one vampire that made Harth is very important to Fray even if he is dead now. Which, we don't know. A car fell on him; we didn't see him dusted.


I bumped this largely because of Issue #33. Willow saying "men" gives more reason and hope that Buffy/Spike will not be killed or sacrificed.

[Inappropriate Starches]

Yes it was definitely about both Angel and Spike and of course Harth. The assumption that it's just one of them seems more like a shipper wish than actual fact. I would love for it to mean Spike, but I'm sure it's both of them.

[drywallman]

There are multiple ways to view that line. The most important doesn't have to mean the men who mean the most. It could simply be referring to the fact that Buffy and Fray, as Slayers, have lives that are influenced to a great degree by the vampires they fight against, most of whom are male.

If her line is about Angel and Spike though I view it as bogus. It fails to take into account either Xander or Giles, who I could easily argue are at least as important to Buffy as either Angel or Spike.

[Inappropriate Starches]

Well I think it was meant to be a telling statement about her relationship with them. I agree that Xander and Giles especially would be up there on par with them if not higher, but I don't think it was meant to be even an entirely truthfull statement, just an observation of how things go with Spike and Angel.

[drywallman]

May 16, 2010 0:24:09 GMT -5 Inappropriate Starches said:

Well I think it was meant to be a telling statement about her relationship with them. I agree that Xander and Giles especially would be up there on par with them if not higher, but I don't think it was meant to be even an entirely truthfull statement, just an observation of how things go with Spike and Angel.

It does make me wonder if something happens in the future that causes Willow to come to that conclusion. Perhaps a situation arises in which Xander and/or Giles are killed but the vampires are saved, leading Willow to believe that Buffy allowed it to happen. Maybe not in the normal timeline but perhaps in the one that FDW comes from.

[sosa lola]

Perhaps it's a subjective opinion. It's what Willow thinks or that she was trying to make a connection between Buffy and Fray. Because I think Xander and Giles are as important.