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Post by Emmie on Sept 22, 2008 18:50:09 GMT -5
Oh, it's fine if you don't like it; to each their own. I just don't get how people can compare "I just feel like something's missing" Riley/Buffy to roller-coaster Spike/Buffy with its fire symbolism and its natural rapport and its epic soul quests, and claim there was less importance or less emotional investment in the case of the latter. I mean, I dislike Angel/Cordelia, but I would never claim that Angel wasn't in love with Cordelia -- and the above comparison seems equally unfathomable to me. Last episode in the series? Angel and Spike. "Most important men in Buffy's life", according to that Joss interview? Angel and Spike. Threesome fantasy? Angel and Spike. Riley is just not on the same level. Enisy, I'm actually a huge fan of Spuffy (hard to believe, right) but I think Buffy never allowed herself to be emotionally intimate with Spike, not until that one night in Touched. Nor did she allow herself to see a future with Spike. So from Buffy's perspective, she never really gave the relationship with Spike a chance. So during the time they were "together", there was no consistent emotional intimacy nor a sense of the long term. I don't prefer Riley/Buffy to Spuffy. Blech. But in terms of who Buffy actually gave more of herself while they were "together", Riley wins. I see the Buffy/Spike interaction in season 7 as something apart from their sexual relationship in season 6. The fact that there wasn't even a kiss between Buffy and Spike draws the line for me that they weren't in a romantic relationship at that point. To clarify my position, as this season was originally airing that is what I wanted most - some Buffy/Spike resolution, reclamation and reunion that would lead to a healthier version of their relationship in season 6. I think Buffy and Spike have a stronger foundation for a future relationship now after all the partnership building that went on in season 7. I'm still hopeful for that development somewhere down the line. But the progression of the Spuffy dynamic to me can be described as enemies -> antagonistic, reluctant allies -> unrequited infatuation met with disgust -> warriors in arms -> early season 6 friends -> tawdry sex partners -> friends and warriors following the mission -> the closest of partners and confidantes. If we combined the "sex partners" with the "closest of partners and confidantes", then Buffy/Spike would be miles ahead of any relationship Buffy has ever experienced. But these phases haven't occurred at the same time. Their's is a complex relationship that hasn't entered that arena of equal partners and lovers who respect each other and are open with their relationship. That is what I'm waiting for - that is what I ideally want from Spuffy. Anything less is insufficient. ***As for being a minority on Slayalive, the ridiculous amount of hours I've spent in the past couple of years reading Spuffy fanfiction shall reassure you that you're not alone, enisy. If you could see the banners I have in my photobucket account (ALL Spuffy)...actually, here's one of my favorites that was my first banner on this site:
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Sept 22, 2008 18:50:41 GMT -5
I know the feeling. Being alone with your preference/opinions suck, specially if it's about Buffy.
I kinda feel like we should agree, because we're all Buffy fans.
hehe
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on Sept 22, 2008 18:57:10 GMT -5
Aww, Emmie. If it helps, Joss did include that fade-to-black scene in Chosen specifically so you could combine the "sex partners" phase with what they had in Season 7, if you so desired. "Making love" was even the first possibility Joss mentioned for that fill-in-the-blanks scene, before "talking all night" or "having a fight", so it certainly didn't seem far-fetched to him.
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Post by Emmie on Sept 22, 2008 19:05:24 GMT -5
Aww, Emmie. If it helps, Joss did include that fade-to-black scene in Chosen specifically so you could combine the "sex partners" phase with what they had in Season 7, if you so desired. "Making love" was even the first possibility Joss mentioned for that fill-in-the-blanks scene, before "talking all night" or "having a fight", so it certainly didn't seem far-fetched to him. Ah, see but the fade-to-black thing is something that fans can contend never happened. If it's going to happen, I want it out in the open. That's what will make it real for me. Add to that the factor of "we all might die tomorrow" and there's some extreme outside forces that would push this physical intimacy. I want Buffy with Spike because it makes her happy without the complications of clinging to what may make you feel alive in the face of the biggest battle of her entire life. I want more than the *suggestion* that Buffy/Spike were both emotionally and physically intimate. Show me smoochies, show me the loving intimacy. Stop teasing me!
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Sept 22, 2008 19:05:57 GMT -5
I'm trying so hard not to blow your bubble, but I'd like to argue against the making love/out theory.
1. Clothes still on when they woke up and seemingly not ruffled. 2. They did look deeply into each others eyes, so other than soft kisses, I doubt much action went on. 3. The layed in almost the same pose when they woke up as when they looked into each others eyes.
I think they just layed there until they feel asleep.
My 2 cents on that theory.
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on Sept 22, 2008 19:07:32 GMT -5
I'm trying so hard not to blow your bubble, but I'd like to argue against the making love/out theory. 1. Clothes still on when they woke up and seemingly not ruffled. 2. They did look deeply into each others eyes, so other than soft kisses, I doubt much action went on. 3. The layed in almost the same pose when they woke up as when they looked into each others eyes. I think they just layed there until they feel asleep. My 2 cents on that theory. Wrong scene. That's their second-to-last night together. I'm talking about their last.
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Post by Emmie on Sept 22, 2008 19:14:10 GMT -5
Lol! See, Skytte is arguing it never happened. It's the ambiguity that I find unsatisfying.
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Enisy
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Post by Enisy on Sept 22, 2008 19:18:16 GMT -5
Heh. The ambiguity is one of the things I love most about them, actually. Like those last words they shared? Yeah. Wow.
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Post by Emmie on Sept 22, 2008 19:21:57 GMT -5
Yeah, that last scene was a bit ambiguous with Spike saying "No, you don't", but at least we can say with 100% certainty that Buffy said "I love you" and clasped his hand in spite of the pain of the flames. Ambiguous yes, but it spoke volumes. The fade-to-black was a deliberate way of not showing us exactly what happened. We're left completely guessing versus interpreting what we're explicitly shown.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Sept 22, 2008 19:23:43 GMT -5
Oh, that scene, in the basement. In Chosen, not Touched, right.
Well, I guess I can make the "no clothes of, no hair ruffled"-argument here too. (Although I bet they brushed Sarah's hair all the time between shoots so that's not totally fair).
God dammit! I just checked the screen caps and that's not the scene you mean either. It's the one before they go to the school.
I never thought they had sex because I assumed Buffy was through with "one-night-stands", but hey, I never expected Buffy to have a one-night-stand with a girl so...
Also, I didn't think that sex before battle would be that good, even with someone you like. But that was before my first big O, so now I could consider that Buffy and Spike did it...
Was that too naughty? Should I edit?
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Enisy
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Post by Enisy on Sept 22, 2008 19:27:35 GMT -5
Emmie, I still think that's the beauty of it. I don't really care for predictable or traditional or obvious relationships; I like to be challenged.
Joss Whedon: This bit here I did actually add on set, not just the picture of Butthead on the punching bag, but this, where I said I wanted to get a couple of shots -- we were going fast -- and that one I didn't know if I was going to use, the two of them, and to me, it's almost the most important shot in the show, because it really shows, you know, the mystery of their relationship. And that's one where I wanted the audience to fill in the blanks. I wanted them... I wanted whatever you want to have happened to have happened. If people believe that on their last night together they made love, great. If they believe that on their last night together they talked all night, great. If they believe that they had a fight, great. Whatever it is, it's up to the viewer and I think the viewer has earned that, and I love that elliptical nature of their last night together. I think there should be work for the viewer to do in that sense, emotionally, because I think that makes it more textured, and that shot of the two of them looking at each other I just find beautiful.
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Yam Sham
Potential Slayer
It is a sham. But it's a sham with yams.[Mo0:26]
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Post by Yam Sham on Oct 13, 2008 23:34:40 GMT -5
I can't wait to see Meltzer's work on season eight. He has a talent for writing other people's characters and throwing them into really new and surprising situations. And his sense of humor falls in perfectly for Buffy.
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:0]
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Post by Enisy on Oct 14, 2008 9:06:42 GMT -5
Yeah, Joss snagged some great new staff members for Buffy: Season 8. (I mean, really, Brian K. Vaughan?)
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Post by Emmie on Nov 12, 2008 9:41:28 GMT -5
Yeah, but no. The discussion board breakdown goes boards, sub-boards and singular discussion threads.
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Post by snizapman6294 on Dec 1, 2008 13:57:55 GMT -5
Xander+Dawn=creepy... when you look at it, Xander (and Giles) are the only father figures in her life... And Xander more than Giles b/c of the whole "Potential" thing where they bond (Yay Powerless people!) and i think i'd be way against the concept of xander and dawn. i've always been a xander+willow fan myself... but that ship sailed in 1999. and the whole "no more one night stands" thing... they've got to be like in their mid 20's, it's far more likely for them to have one night stands (Buffy+Satsu/Willow+Saga Vasuki) than actual relationships (Buffy+Angel,Riley,Spike-ish/Willow+Oz, Tara/Xander+Anya, Renee-ish)
i've said it before and i'll say it again... i think Willow + Oz are gonna at the very least hook up during his arc. I really don't like kennedy. I'd support Satsu+Kennedy because i kind of don't like either of them (I know that i'm gonna get a lot of ishh for not liking Satsu because everyone seems to like her) but together, i could give them another chance.
to be honest... i kind of see Buffy+Twilight being together... even more so if twilight is a woman.
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