BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
|
Post by BenTaylor3907 on Jan 19, 2009 0:23:41 GMT -5
My favorite m/m 'ships: Angelus & Xander. William the Bloody & Xander. Angelus & Doyle. Angelus & Doyle? I've never thought or read of that. Do you have any links to good fics? Nope. I wish. lol. |
|
rogue11
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 197
|
Post by rogue11 on Jan 19, 2009 12:10:19 GMT -5
I dont think it would matter if they added a gay male character. In the tv series it was only Willow and Tara or Kennedy that were the gay characters, thats not many, especially when you look at it as every other person on that show was straight.
You can keep trying to guess who's gay and who isn't but a character, or person, isn't officially gay until they themselves realize and admit to themselves that they are.
Degrassi the next generation was a tv show where they had both gay and lesbian characters but that didn't make the show all about gay people, there were still plenty of straight characters, if not even more than the gay characters so I dont see how adding a gay male character would tip some sort of scales. :S
|
|
Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
|
Post by Nicholas on Jan 19, 2009 16:06:21 GMT -5
I agree with the whole Buffy: the show where all the characters turn gay at some point. I don't like it.
I love gay people, but I love straight people too.
|
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 19, 2009 16:20:49 GMT -5
You know what we should do? Tell Joss;
"Dude, this isn't working out. We need to label the reacurring characters. We need one fourth gay people, one fourth straight, one forth bi, one fourth assexual. No, it's okay, you don't need to tell us exactly who is gay or not, as long as you know for sure and hint it from time to time. But you need to make sure that it's the same amount of people in each group. So you might have to kill some people, create knew characters or make some people gay/bi/asexual. Because right now, we have too many straights. We don't want the comics to be all about the straights, because man, they run the verse, there's too many of them. That's just not the sort of show I want to watch."
****
Anyone offended? It's nothing personal, i'm not calling you homophobs or anything.
Sex and love shouldn't be a big deal. But it is. Gays aren't what most people are used to, not me either, but I still want to say; It's not a big deal and Buffy and the others should get to sleep with whoever or whatever(non-con and bestaility not included) they want without the fans making a fuss. But... we'l get there's some day.
I have a dream...
|
|
|
|
Post by Without Passion on Jan 19, 2009 16:24:17 GMT -5
I agree with the whole Buffy: the show where all the characters turn gay at some point. I don't like it. I love gay people, but I love straight people too. That's ridiculous. People "turn gay"? What?  I don't see how it'd necessarily be bad if some characters happened to be not straight. It's just the sexuality of a character, not a big deal. And it's not like "all the characters" are "gay"...there's three openly gay characters in the story right now, big deal...and we don't even see those characters that much. Why are so many people so uncomfortable with a few characters not being straight? Anything with characters who aren't mostly straight is now "lame"? Come on people, grow up. |
|
|
|
Post by Without Passion on Jan 19, 2009 16:26:18 GMT -5
You know what we should do? Tell Joss; "Dude, this isn't working out. We need to label the reacurring characters. We need one fourth gay people, one fourth straight, one forth bi, one fourth assexual. No, it's okay, you don't need to tell us exactly who is gay or not, as long as you know for sure and hint it from time to time. But you need to make sure that it's the same amount of people in each group. So you might have to kill some people, create knew characters or make some people gay/bi/asexual. Because right now, we have too many straights. We don't want the comics to be all about the straights, because man, they run the verse, there's too many of them. That's just not the sort of show I want to watch." **** Anyone offended? It's nothing personal, i'm not calling you homophobs or anything. Sex and love shouldn't be a big deal. But it is. Gays aren't what most people are used to, not me either, but I still want to say; It's not a big deal and Buffy and the others should get to sleep with whoever or whatever(non-con and bestaility not included) they want without the fans making a fuss. But... we'l get there's some day. I have a dream... Haha, yes, I agree completely! Points for you!  |
|
Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,069
|
Post by Mathieu on Jan 19, 2009 17:22:30 GMT -5
I agree with the whole Buffy: the show where all the characters turn gay at some point. I don't like it. I love gay people, but I love straight people too. That's ridiculous. People "turn gay"? What? I don't see how it'd necessarily be bad if some characters happened to be not straight. It's just the sexuality of a character, not a big deal. And it's not like "all the characters" are "gay"...there's three openly gay characters in the story right now, big deal...and we don't even see those characters that much. Why are so many people so uncomfortable with a few characters not being straight? Anything with characters who aren't mostly straight is now "lame"? Come on people, grow up. Come on! Did I say I was not comfortable with a few characters being gay?? I was just pointing out how ridiculous it is for some people out here to complain about not having enough gay characters. I mean in real life what percentage of the population is OPENLY gay or bisexual? 25% at most? If all the characters in the buffyverse start to be gay or bi, that's over the top. We have other shows for that, go watch queer as folk or whatever. We already have Willow, Tara, Kennedy, Satsu. Now Buffy's bi too. We all assume Andrew is gay. Something between Angel and Spike was once mentioned right? Now some people speculate about Xander and Dracula. I don't know. I'm just saying. And I'm a bisexual myself. |
|
|
|
Post by Without Passion on Jan 19, 2009 18:53:24 GMT -5
That's ridiculous. People "turn gay"? What? I don't see how it'd necessarily be bad if some characters happened to be not straight. It's just the sexuality of a character, not a big deal. And it's not like "all the characters" are "gay"...there's three openly gay characters in the story right now, big deal...and we don't even see those characters that much. Why are so many people so uncomfortable with a few characters not being straight? Anything with characters who aren't mostly straight is now "lame"? Come on people, grow up. Come on! Did I say I was not comfortable with a few characters being gay?? I was just pointing out how ridiculous it is for some people out here to complain about not having enough gay characters. I mean in real life what percentage of the population is OPENLY gay or bisexual? 25% at most? If all the characters in the buffyverse start to be gay or bi, that's over the top. We have other shows for that, go watch queer as folk or whatever. We already have Willow, Tara, Kennedy, Satsu. Now Buffy's bi too. We all assume Andrew is gay. Something between Angel and Spike was once mentioned right? Now some people speculate about Xander and Dracula. I don't know. I'm just saying. And I'm a bisexual myself. Wasn't trying to attack you, sorry if it came off that way. It's just that there are so many characters in this story that I don't understand why some people in general are making such a fuss over a few characters being "gay" or "bisexual" or whatever. I think it's silly to make such a big deal over something like sexuality, especially since characters' sexual orientations are somewhat irrelevant in the grand scheme of the story. Love has always been an important theme in the series, so why does it matter whom it's shared between? To me it's frustrating to read so many negative comments about a few characters not being straight since I don't see the sexuality of a person something to make a fuss over in general. People should just accept the story as it is and stop complaining about every single thing they don't like about it, whether they think there's a lack of or an abundance of "gay" characters; I'm grateful there's even a Season 8 and that it's written with care. I wish that some people wouldn't freak out so much just because some characters aren't straight and would try to be a little more understanding. Realistically, not every character is going to reveal themselves as being gay, it just wouldn't make sense, so why are people so worried about that happening? Yea, it's been implied and or shown that some characters have experimented or may show "signs of being gay" (oh no!) but that doesn't mean they're not the same characters we know and love. Even if all the characters were bi, gay, asexual, etc. why would it matter? That's not the primary focus of the show, whereas "Queer as Folk" tends to be, so it doesn't make sense to compare "Buffy" to that. "Buffy" will never be anything like that. The show has never revolved around the sex lives of heterosexuals, so why would it suddenly turn into the sex lives of a few gay characters? /end rant. Haha.  |
|
Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,069
|
Post by Mathieu on Jan 19, 2009 20:19:46 GMT -5
Come on! Did I say I was not comfortable with a few characters being gay?? I was just pointing out how ridiculous it is for some people out here to complain about not having enough gay characters. I mean in real life what percentage of the population is OPENLY gay or bisexual? 25% at most? If all the characters in the buffyverse start to be gay or bi, that's over the top. We have other shows for that, go watch queer as folk or whatever. We already have Willow, Tara, Kennedy, Satsu. Now Buffy's bi too. We all assume Andrew is gay. Something between Angel and Spike was once mentioned right? Now some people speculate about Xander and Dracula. I don't know. I'm just saying. And I'm a bisexual myself. Wasn't trying to attack you, sorry if it came off that way. It's just that there are so many characters in this story that I don't understand why some people in general are making such a fuss over a few characters being "gay" or "bisexual" or whatever. I think it's silly to make such a big deal over something like sexuality, especially since characters' sexual orientations are somewhat irrelevant in the grand scheme of the story. Love has always been an important theme in the series, so why does it matter whom it's shared between? To me it's frustrating to read so many negative comments about a few characters not being straight since I don't see the sexuality of a person something to make a fuss over in general. People should just accept the story as it is and stop complaining about every single thing they don't like about it, whether they think there's a lack of or an abundance of "gay" characters; I'm grateful there's even a Season 8 and that it's written with care. I wish that some people wouldn't freak out so much just because some characters aren't straight and would try to be a little more understanding. Realistically, not every character is going to reveal themselves as being gay, it just wouldn't make sense, so why are people so worried about that happening? Yea, it's been implied and or shown that some characters have experimented or may show "signs of being gay" (oh no!) but that doesn't mean they're not the same characters we know and love. Even if all the characters were bi, gay, asexual, etc. why would it matter? That's not the primary focus of the show, whereas "Queer as Folk" tends to be, so it doesn't make sense to compare "Buffy" to that. "Buffy" will never be anything like that. The show has never revolved around the sex lives of heterosexuals, so why would it suddenly turn into the sex lives of a few gay characters? /end rant. Haha. I think we mostly agree on everything. I don't care how many gay characters there are in the story. Of course I think it's even a good thing to have some gay characters out there, that way more people can relate to the love stories that are told. my point was that we should stop asking for more (or fewer) gay characters. So we agree on everything I guess. |
|
rogue11
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 197
|
Post by rogue11 on Jan 20, 2009 12:39:36 GMT -5
Ok i just saw that preview for issue 22 called Swell and I got to say that i guess its not really a big deal if there are any gay guys in the buffyverse.
Its just that i think i might be and it would just be nice if there were more gay male stories out there, I think I am gay and i just thought it would be nice to see how two guys can have that deep relationship.
However, I have seen plenty of lesbian stories in mainstream media and I do admit that there are still things in those stories.
I can relate so much to Satsue, the way she fell in love in someone who was straight, someone who could only give her so much but not enough, I know exactly how she feels.
And the best thing you can get from a comic book is being able to connect and learn from what the characters go through.
|
|
Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
|
Post by Nicholas on Jan 20, 2009 13:31:54 GMT -5
I think people might not be understand what I am trying to say. Think about it: Willow is gay, Buffy slept with a girl, we have Kennedy, Satsu, AND Tara. People are now speculating possible gay relations between Angel/Spike, Andrew, and Xander/Dracula. This is what's kind of aggravating me. I agree with Joss on his views on sexuality and how its fluid, but this kind of reminds me of how people are ranting on how they keep bringing old characters back this season. Not everyone on this show is going to have a sexual relationship or encounter with someone from the same sex.
If Joss took Willow, Buffy, Xander, and Giles and had all of them have some kind of encounter with the same sex, I would have a problem. We get it, there's gay people. But that doesn't mean that everyone does it.
|
|
rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
|
Post by rufio on Jan 20, 2009 16:09:40 GMT -5
Who ever said they want every character to be gay or have a gay relationship?? I certainly didn't! I'm not an idiot-i know not everyone is gay and it would make absolutely no sense for every character to be basically bisexual. But newsflash, there are a percentage of people that identify as gay or bisexual, and even those who don't identify but still experiment (buffy!) So question- why do people have such a problem with sexual relationships such as these being told in a story? You can say you're not homophobic, but you sure sound it. I never said I wanted more of the main characters to suddenly become gay or start experimenting- I DID say it'd be nice to see a gay male character come into the story. What is so wrong about that? All we have is Andrew, and he's still left ambiguous-even though it's pretty obvious. Yeah there's only a small percentage of people that are gay in real life, but there ARE gay people so just b/c they're a minority means they shouldn't be shown? If anything, that's MORE of a reason. Sorry, but I'd like more representation of homosexuality in today's media b/c it's needed to open peoples minds. I've watched Queer as Folk and I think the writers of Buffy are smart and do something totally different and wonderful with gay characters. I've seen the way they've handled Willow & Tara & Kennedy for the past 10 years and that's why I'm on this board! The series has shown very positive representations of homosexuality as well as accurate representations of sexuality in general & I think they can do better than Andrew.  |
|
|
|
Post by Without Passion on Jan 20, 2009 17:17:50 GMT -5
I think people might not be understand what I am trying to say. Think about it: Willow is gay, Buffy slept with a girl, we have Kennedy, Satsu, AND Tara. People are now speculating possible gay relations between Angel/Spike, Andrew, and Xander/Dracula. This is what's kind of aggravating me. I agree with Joss on his views on sexuality and how its fluid, but this kind of reminds me of how people are ranting on how they keep bringing old characters back this season. Not everyone on this show is going to have a sexual relationship or encounter with someone from the same sex. If Joss took Willow, Buffy, Xander, and Giles and had all of them have some kind of encounter with the same sex, I would have a problem. We get it, there's gay people. But that doesn't mean that everyone does it. So you're aggravated that a few characters aren't straight and that people are speculating about other characters. Uh, get over it? Let them speculate. Why does it bother you so much? And anyway, Tara hasn't been seen for quite some time. Who's saying every character is suddenly going to be bisexual or something? Obviously this isn't what's going to happen. It's ridiculous that this has become such a big deal. |
|
Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
|
Post by Paul on Jan 20, 2009 18:02:57 GMT -5
Just because Buffy is "about female empowerment" doesn't mean that's all it's about. Sure, it's a major theme, but there are other themes as well so I don't think that "oh, well it's about female empowerment" is a good argument against introducing gay male characters. That's like saying "it's about female empowerment...so there shouldn't be any main male characters." Uh, what? Not a reason against introducing gay male characters, merely an incidental theory as to why none have shown up as of yet; it's a prominently female cast. The series has shown very positive representations of homosexuality as well as accurate representations of sexuality in general & I think they can do better than Andrew. Why must Andrew be some kind of gay icon? He's a comedy character in a supporting role... who happens to be gay. His sexuality is just a vehicle for jokes, and originated from Tom Lenk being a bit camp (as stated by Joss). The reason he's stereotypically gay is for dramatic irony; the fact that neither he nor anybody else can see it when it's so obvious. Some fans seem to be annoyed or offended that he's not a relationship and that his sexuality is not a major character point. Well, why should it? The Buffy writers are not, and should not feel, obligated to turn every single homosexual character into some kind of statement and Andrew should not be defined by his sexuality. I think the question of "why are there no gay guys in the Buffyverse?" is silly. As already said in the above quote, Buffy is known for it's positive representations of homosexuality. Yet some people are upset because the homosexual characters are female and not male. Of course there's nothing wrong with having a gay guy in the cast, but I don't think it's a glaring omission that the series needs to address. |
|
Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,069
|
Post by Mathieu on Jan 20, 2009 18:05:49 GMT -5
Who ever said they want every character to be gay or have a gay relationship?? I certainly didn't! I'm not an idiot-i know not everyone is gay and it would make absolutely no sense for every character to be basically bisexual. But newsflash, there are a percentage of people that identify as gay or bisexual, and even those who don't identify but still experiment (buffy!) So question- why do people have such a problem with sexual relationships such as these being told in a story? You can say you're not homophobic, but you sure sound it. I never said I wanted more of the main characters to suddenly become gay or start experimenting- I DID say it'd be nice to see a gay male character come into the story. What is so wrong about that? All we have is Andrew, and he's still left ambiguous-even though it's pretty obvious. Yeah there's only a small percentage of people that are gay in real life, but there ARE gay people so just b/c they're a minority means they shouldn't be shown? If anything, that's MORE of a reason. Sorry, but I'd like more representation of homosexuality in today's media b/c it's needed to open peoples minds. I've watched Queer as Folk and I think the writers of Buffy are smart and do something totally different and wonderful with gay characters. I've seen the way they've handled Willow & Tara & Kennedy for the past 10 years and that's why I'm on this board! The series has shown very positive representations of homosexuality as well as accurate representations of sexuality in general & I think they can do better than Andrew. I agree, they can do better than Andrew! |
|
rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
|
Post by rufio on Jan 20, 2009 20:33:34 GMT -5
a glaring omission that the series needs to address?-no a small thing some people might enjoy and/or appreciate?-yes. |
|
|
|
Post by Without Passion on Jan 20, 2009 23:06:41 GMT -5
Just because Buffy is "about female empowerment" doesn't mean that's all it's about. Sure, it's a major theme, but there are other themes as well so I don't think that "oh, well it's about female empowerment" is a good argument against introducing gay male characters. That's like saying "it's about female empowerment...so there shouldn't be any main male characters." Uh, what? Not a reason against introducing gay male characters, merely an incidental theory as to why none have shown up as of yet; it's a prominently female cast. The series has shown very positive representations of homosexuality as well as accurate representations of sexuality in general & I think they can do better than Andrew. Why must Andrew be some kind of gay icon? He's a comedy character in a supporting role... who happens to be gay. His sexuality is just a vehicle for jokes, and originated from Tom Lenk being a bit camp (as stated by Joss). The reason he's stereotypically gay is for dramatic irony; the fact that neither he nor anybody else can see it when it's so obvious. Some fans seem to be annoyed or offended that he's not a relationship and that his sexuality is not a major character point. Well, why should it? The Buffy writers are not, and should not feel, obligated to turn every single homosexual character into some kind of statement and Andrew should not be defined by his sexuality. I think the question of "why are there no gay guys in the Buffyverse?" is silly. As already said in the above quote, Buffy is known for it's positive representations of homosexuality. Yet some people are upset because the homosexual characters are female and not male. Of course there's nothing wrong with having a gay guy in the cast, but I don't think it's a glaring omission that the series needs to address. Yea, I agree. I like Andrew the way he is. He happens to be gay...that doesn't mean his character has to revolve around that detail. If anything, having a character whose identity is defined by his or her sexuality is just supporting stereotypes. I'm glad that Joss and co. have decided against making their characters so stereotypical and I think that having a character who is "the gay one" would contradict everything that's been done so far regarding homosexuality, bisexuality, etc. If the writers feel the need to add a male character who is gay, then that's wonderful, as long as it's done tastefully. |
|
Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
|
Post by Nicholas on Jan 20, 2009 23:08:16 GMT -5
They arent going to cater to every single fan. If they did that, then we wouldnt be where we are now. People may not like the fact that Andrews sexuality is not up for an actual plot point, but thats something that people are just going to have to get over and deal with. One of the major things about Buffy the Vampire Slayer is not only the fact that its a kick ass show/comic but the fact that it has been able to connect to people and change lives. To say that someone is homophobic when you dont even know them is ridiculous.
It was because of this show and the themes such as sexual orientation and experimentation that I was able to admit to myself that I was bisexual. So believe me when I say that I have no problem with the fact that there is gay or bisexual characters in this universe. But I myself believe that while sexual orientation is an aspect of a person, they dont really need to center a story around it anymore because thats already been told.
|
|
Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,069
|
Post by Mathieu on Jan 21, 2009 0:06:57 GMT -5
Just making myself clear, I wouldn't want Andrew to become "the gay character" either! I think he's just great the way he is, without having to make him some kind of stereotype. He was my favorite character in the show, although his sense of humor doesn't come across as much and as well thru the comics.
Is everybody gay or bisexual around here by the way? I know that a poll was made about this in the past but it sounds like everybody is like "being bisexual myself, I can tell you that...", me included! That's weird. I guess it's the Obama day effect.
|
|
rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
|
Post by rufio on Jan 21, 2009 0:53:38 GMT -5
They arent going to cater to every single fan. If they did that, then we wouldnt be where we are now. People may not like the fact that Andrews sexuality is not up for an actual plot point, but thats something that people are just going to have to get over and deal with. One of the major things about Buffy the Vampire Slayer is not only the fact that its a kick ass show/comic but the fact that it has been able to connect to people and change lives. To say that someone is homophobic when you dont even know them is ridiculous. It was because of this show and the themes such as sexual orientation and experimentation that I was able to admit to myself that I was bisexual. So believe me when I say that I have no problem with the fact that there is gay or bisexual characters in this universe. But I myself believe that while sexual orientation is an aspect of a person, they dont really need to center a story around it anymore because thats already been told. What are you referring to where this story has been told? |
|
