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Post by Emmie on Jan 19, 2009 12:33:44 GMT -5
Okay, I figured out my rank. It's a combination of the power of the message and how the issue/arc fits into the season, the strength of the story (plot, character moments), the art, and the detracting WTF-moments.
1) A Beautiful Sunset. I just felt like this was a perfect issue - I can find no fault in it. Love every piece of it to bits. The writing was solid, the message was strong, Twilight's entrance was epic, great insight into Buffy's mindset, fantastic Xander moments. I love how Twilight explained that killing Buffy wouldn't get it done. That you had to attack her sense of moral righteousness following the showdown between Buffy and Twilight and the realization that the battle isn't going to be fought with fists and fangs (Buffy's specialty) but with the perception of reality.
Also wonderful bookend Buffy/Xander moments where he shows wonderful insight into her being "alone too much" and that perhaps she can't connect like the other girls because she's the leader. One of the best Xander speeches since the end of Potential. Buffy's introductory internal monologue also serves as the main key to what Season 8 is about - she's changed things, but their are consequences and her understanding of the "status quo" will be shaken. I also love her bookended "Yay me"s as she resignedly accepts the shortcomings of her situation.
2 & 3) Time of Your Life = Wolves at the Gate. Exceptionally entertaining arcs that had great character development as well as strong new/returning characters (Dracula, Fray, Harth, etc.). They both had some unfortunate WTF-moments (tree people and Mecha Dawn ), but they were so strong with their main storyline. ToYL ranks so highly because it made me think so damn much - that arc had me pondering the ramifications of messing with the future for a long time and led to the most interesting discussions I've had recently. WatG made vampires cool again - Dracula got his rocks back and the Tokyo gang were organized, ingenious and badass.
4) No Future For You. A further look into Faith's journey for redemption and a prime example of how activating the potentials can go wrong. While many feel this is the best arc to date, I ranked it lower because it focused narrowly on Faith's journey and the themes of the arc didn't jive with the overall themes of Season 8. Great themes, just really Faith-specific. The kind of themes that fit like a glove over on Angel.
5) Long Way Home. A wonderful re-introduction to all the characters that gives the main core equality in the importance of their actions - each one plays a vital role. They are a unit once more. This arc is so thematically rich and sets up the entire season with deft skill. The WTF-moments are the only reason it's ranked lower than the other arcs (Willow's mental escape to a world where weird beings exist is inexplicable, Dawn as a Giant was a bit much to get used to). I think LWH is one of Whedon's best season openers.
6 & 7) Harmonic Divergence = The Chain. These issues shared similar strengths and weaknesses. The story structure was a bit hard to follow and the art was sketchy at times, but they resonated so strongly with their message and the new characters introduced (Soledad and decoy!Slayer) were poignant and tragic with surprising depth for such limited page time. I re-read these to contemplate the depth of the meaning and for how they resonate metaphorically. Also, The Chain is the only issue to make me cry.
8) After these Messages...We'll Be Right Back. A fun trip to the past that didn't strongly resonate thematically with the rest of the season. So many potential story possibilities here that weren't explored because of the limited space, which inevitably resulted in a superficial dream trip for Buffy back to Season 1. The characters voices were slightly off and after reading, you're left wondering - 'That's it? But I wanted more.'
9) Anywhere But Here. A monster-of-the-week created to serve as a show and tell for all the issues between Buffy and Willow. I can see how this would have worked amazingly well in a televised episode but I don't think it translated well to the comic medium. The narrative was a bit confusing. Also, Cliff Richards is meh for me. MEH. The only likeness I enjoyed was Kennedy's - the best Kennedy likeness is done by Richards.
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watcher
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 211
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Post by watcher on Jan 19, 2009 13:24:26 GMT -5
No Future For You Wolves At The Gate The Long Way Home A Beautiful Sunset After These Messages...We'll Be Right Back Anywhere But Here The Chain Time of Your Life ( )
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 19, 2009 16:00:42 GMT -5
I don't know if I've ever actually had a comic make me cry. Although, I was filled with lots of shock when Buffy and Satsu slept together.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jan 19, 2009 17:14:07 GMT -5
I'll admit it, I've cried mantears a couple of times over certain issues.
In BUFFY: #15, the third part of "Wolves at the Gate" definitely did. As did #19. I think an earlier issue might have, perhaps #10, but I'm not sure.
In ANGEL: #1, final page got a mist. #3, final page got mist, maybe a drop. #4, the flashback totally got me. When Angel, all in one moment, discovers that a) Wes is a ghost, b) LA has been sent to Hell, c) he's a human, and d) it's too late to save Gunn... damn.
#9, final scene with Wes/Illyria got mist. #12, Angel approaching Cordy, entire dialogue between Angel and Cordy got full tears. #14, the Wes/Illyria bit. #15, entire issue was mist, followed by tears when... ya know.
Damn. So so sad, so so good.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Jan 19, 2009 19:51:55 GMT -5
Pat, I like that you have no shame.
I haven't cried reading the comics yet, but did get misty at the end of Buffy #19 and AtF #5, #13 and #15. I hope I cry sometime, cause that'd be cool. It'd show that I was wrong in thinking the comics wouldn't have a heavy emotional impact on me like the shows did.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jan 19, 2009 20:51:15 GMT -5
Shame is overrated. Real men can get misty over drawings with word bubbles.
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Post by SlayerLV on Jan 20, 2009 0:15:01 GMT -5
1- Wolves at the Gate 2- No Future For You 3- Anywhere But Here 4- The Chain 5- Time of your Life 6- A Beautiful Sunset 7- The Long Way Home 8- After These Messages...We'll Be Right Back
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alycat7
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
I don't wanna be this good looking and athletic. We all have crosses to bear - Spike[Mo0:4]
Posts: 752
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Post by alycat7 on Jan 20, 2009 2:08:50 GMT -5
I still say Wolves at The Gate is the best. Then is A Beautiful Sunset.
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Jan 20, 2009 18:45:49 GMT -5
It was hard choosing between "No Future For You" and "Wolves at the Gate" but I went with "NFFY". I didn't think much of that arc reading it when it came out, but when I reread it as a TPB I realised how amazing it was.
I remember a lot of people at the time complaining that it was too similar to previous stories, with the whole "Buffy vs. Faith" concept. Personally, I think there was some truly groundbreaking character development for Faith in that story. Faith started out as a foil for Buffy, the "evil Slayer". Here, Faith gains her own foil in Gigi and we see how much she's grown as a person and the lessons she's learned from her experience. It was a nice change in dynamic for the character, to see her step up and play the whitehat to someone who was essentially her past self. The Buffy/Faith fight was about underming that development and preventing Faith from growing up. In Faith's own words, "Whenever she's around, you're the villain. But as soon as she's gone, you're the hero." Faith decides to stop defining herself through Buffy and find her own purpose in life. She's not just a Buffy foil anymore, she's her own character. I remember thinking at the time that "No Future for You" was a backdoor pilot for a Faith & Giles series because Vaughn did such a good job of giving the characters their own mission. Some fans are upset that Faith and Giles aren't friends with Buffy anymore. But that's exactly what they needed to do; grow up and get out of Buffy's shadow. So for character development alone, I consider "NFFY" the best arc so far.
Here's my list:
1. "No Future For You" 2. "Wolves at the Gate" (The epitome of a Buffy story; funny, dramatic, heart-breaking, and empowering) 3. "The Chain" (Powerful and complex standalone story with a surprisingly memorable protagonist) 4. "A Beautiful Sunset" (Great character development for Buffy, exciting Twilight debut, beautiful Xander speech) 5. "Time of Your Life" (Fun crossover, exciting plot developments, but felt more like a Fray story than a Buffy one) 6. "Anywhere But Here" (Great Buffy and Willow/Kennedy development, interesting new character with Robin, let down by bland artwork) 7. "Harmonic Divergence" (Disappointing Harmony-wise, but exciting plot developments nonetheless) 8. "After These Messages" (Brilliant artwork and fun nostalgia, but pretty disposable) 9. "The Long Way Home" (Amazing at the time, but kind of boring and expositional in retrospect)
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vampmogs
Novice Witch
[Mo0:16]
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Post by vampmogs on Jan 20, 2009 20:50:23 GMT -5
I’d rank them;
1) A Beautiful Sunset- It’s just a truly amazing episode. I love everything about it. I love the Buffy/Xander interaction, the Buffy/Satsu conversation as they casually slay vampires, Twilight’s appearance and the opening as we see the different outcomes of the spell from ‘Chosen.’ It has some truly amazing lines, “Right now you’re in terrible danger” “Why?” “You’re in love with me” and I love Buffy’s self reflection and sarcastic “yay me” over the image of Simone. It explored some really interesting themes. And I just *love* how it’s illustrated, the whole issue is hauntingly beautiful, I love the look of the cemetery and the colours used, and the images of the Buffy/Twilight battle. I also thought Buffy looked particularly beautiful as she cries with her hair braded back.
2) No Future For You- I really dug this arc, I thought Faith was fantastic in it and I really enjoyed the parallels between Faith and Gigi and that reflection on how Faith used to be and really, how far she has come. It also raised some very interesting issues as well concerning Buffy and the way she’s dealing with certain situations. My favourite scene is the Buffy/Faith/Gigi/Roden confrontation, I think that’s wonderful. I particularly love the moment where Faith catapults Buffy out of the window, there’s just so many different and interesting things going on there. Could it be a combination of everything as Faith throws Buffy out of the window, saving Gigi, saving Buffy from herself and even from Roden (who can be seen about to land some mojo on Buffy from behind) it’s just so layered and complex. And it was scary as Buffy raised the sword to kill Gigi in pure anger, very scary indeed. Giles was also great, “burst” and I loved how he and Faith took Roden on himself. And I actually sympathised with Gigi, she was terribly deluded but kinda tragic, a victim of paedophilia and severe manipulation. Her mind had been twisted so badly it was so bent and out of touch with reality.
3) The Long Way Home- I think it’s a really underrated episode, I think it’s the best season opener Joss has ever written as far as I’m concerned. It has one of my favourite lines of the season, “the thing about changing the world, once you do, the world’s all different” which has such resonance to what’s going on in season eight and it uses the comic medium to the best of it’s advantages.. The Buffy/Dawn conversation as time slips in each panel and Buffy can be seen getting closer and closer to the stairs is just superb and really gives it a flowing feeling. I really dug the opening with Buffy and the squad slaying the demons, that was a lot of fun and I loved the slow introduction of Buffy, Xander, Willow and Giles I thought it was very well crafted. And hey, I think Amy/Warren are a very creepy couple so I had no issue with that.
4) Anywhere But Here- Another fantastic episode. I thought it was very sweet how Buffy/Willow played “anywhere but here” and it was great that Joss still remembers that from way back in season two. It was also heartbreaking how Willow inadvertently blames both herself and Buffy for what happened to Tara and the issue sets up some marvellous moral dilemmas which only add more pieces to the puzzle.. Buffy’s bank robbery, and of course, the betrayal. The Dawn/Xander scenes were also nice.
5) Wolves At The Gate- I loved this episode despite it’s controversial themes. I was a big fan of Buffy/Satsu which I really didn’t think I’d be. I loved that in the end Buffy was able to break up with someone in a sweet way, it showed her that not every relationship has to end tragically. I also loved how this episode completely subverted what you’d come to expect from Buffy. She went back into that mode of attempting to keep her relationship a secret from the others and that also makes her miserable and isolated, so it was great to see everyone just walk in on her and Satsu and make it comedic, that was very fun. This episode also made Dracula extremely cool and Xander got to be a bad ass! The death of Renee was terribly tragic and they handled it really well as they showed her falling from her perspective and the beginning of the fight scene in Issue #15 is one of my favourite moments in the series.. It’s *epic*
6) After These Messages…- It’s a very flawed episode, I agree that it had a lot of missed opportunities but it’s also extremely heart-warming and pulls at the heart strings for all those who feel nostalgic for the old Scooby gang. I adored seeing Cordelia, Joyce and Angel again and I really loved the final moments of this issue. The final page where Buffy is thankful for her friends with the image of the old Scooby gang faded in the background made me tear up. I just love it, despite its faults.
7) Time of Your Life- I think other episodes have been better, though this wasn’t bad. It had the very interesting reveal that Riley is somehow involved in all of those and I really enjoyed the final moments where Buffy kills future Willow then embraces her own Willow tightly as she cries. I also really digged Kennedy and her part in this and it really put Willow in some murky situations. I can’t wait to see how the Saga Vasuki storyline plays out but I fear Willow’s dug herself into a hole here. I wasn’t hugely interesting in Fray I must say, which is only what let me down in this episode, but I loved how she was used to show what Buffy used to be and what it appears she has become.. Again, another very interesting piece of the puzzle as Buffy plans to let innocents die for the bigger picture.
8) Harmonic Divergence- I didn’t hate this episode by any means but I think Espenson has real trouble with translating her style of writing into the comics, it left some of her dialogue feeling a tad wooden. I really enjoyed the intimate Scooby moments, that was very cool and the character of Soledad was very tragic. The issue raised some very great themes and really kicked the season off, bringing to fruition what General Voll told Buffy in the very first episode, “You’re at war with the human race” *Brilliant* “welcome to the new world order.”
9) The Chain- Again not a terribly bad episode but it lacked most of the core characters which is why it’s ranked last. I love the variant cover of Buffy saying “I choose you to be strong!” with the nameless slayer cowering with concern against the wall. It also raised a lot of moral dilemmas about wether or not it’s ok to have Buffy decoys and I teared up as the slayer died. Her final monologue was beautiful.
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 21, 2009 17:14:53 GMT -5
I want to give complete details:
1) Wolves At The Gate I think this is probably the best episode of Season 8 so far. It really was everything that Buffy was all about: the depth, the humor, and the action. My favorite part was when the gang walked in to find Buffy and Satsu in bed together; they found humor out of what to Buffy and Satsu was such a serious situation. And I think that this really did give Xander a little bit of development as well. That last shot of him with Dracula walking away and him threatening to kill him really expressed to me how damaged Xanders heart really was. The whole concept of him in the Universe was for him to be the heart of the group and to hold everything together and this really showed me how much of a toll its taking on him. Sure, this arc had its negatives (MechaDawn!) but I don't really mind those as much because of the fact that its a different medium and that way that its played.
2) No Future For You This arc reminded me of the serious Buffy episodes (The Body, Into The Woods, and Who Are You?) It was very well played off and I think that the situations that Faith had to go through were exactly what she needed in order to fully remain balanced on the path to what's right. Seeing herself in Gigi was obviously hurtful to her and to me it realy showed her at first that she isn't the only Slayer to take a path down darkness but when Buffy showed up, it made her realize that Buffy is actually what's been holding her back. As much as the two haven't really been friends since Season 3, I think that once Faith runs into Buffy again, this arc is what sets up Buffy and Faith to being all right with eachother again.
3) A Beautiful Sunset
Again, more amazing development with Xander. His speeches are becoming as meaningful as Buffys were in Season 7. I think that his role in this issue really played off his him being "Animus" or "Heart" to the group as in Primeval. At first, while reading I really didn't see any major development in Buffy until the very end when she begins to question if what she did at the end of Chosen was actually a good thing. It was very well executed.
4) The Chain
I think that because of the story that was trying to be fit into such few pages, it suffered a little but the main point got across very well. It was a very deep issue and it was not only nice to see this "Buffy Double" but it was nice to see someone who was able to be truly proud of what she was doing and was glad to die for what she believed in. It was very strong and I think that it made a strong head nod to the troops that are out there today.
5) The Long Way Home
Not the strongest arc but it was probably one of the better openers of the seasons. It was very much of where they are now rather than trying to express a main point. It was plain old Scooby fun and that's what drew me to it; the usual fun before the usual death.
6) After These Messages...
I loved this episode except it could have been much longer. It shouldn't have just been a one shot because they could have done so much more with it. It was a great throwback to the olden days but it also expressed once again that Buffy is not happy with how complicated things are and misses the way things used to be, which I thought was very bold in stating what Buffys decisions might be later on in the season.
7) Time Of Your Life
This arc was meh to me. I mean, its Buffy so obviously I liked but it left us with too many unanswered questions and too many holes. However, what kept it from being bad was the fact that we saw the return of Fray; not to mention Buffy interacting with her. Plus, Evil Willows death was pretty large.
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Post by faithnspike on Jan 23, 2009 16:04:15 GMT -5
No future for you I loved the writing and the development of both Faith and Giles’s character
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