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Post by VampSlayer on Jan 25, 2009 17:09:37 GMT -5
Most of the icons have not been working, for me at least. This has been for like a month, maybe more time. Just wondering if it is only me.
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Post by Wyndam on Jan 25, 2009 18:17:02 GMT -5
Most of the icons have not been working, for me at least. This has been for like a month, maybe more time. Just wondering if it is only me. I think they have been messed up ever since the sub-forums were made. |
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Post by VampSlayer on Jan 25, 2009 19:39:24 GMT -5
Most of the icons have not been working, for me at least. This has been for like a month, maybe more time. Just wondering if it is only me. I think they have been messed up ever since the sub-forums were made. Yeah, I thought that may have been the case. Well, it's nice to know that is not just me.  |
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Whedon Fan
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Whedon Fan on Jan 26, 2009 7:53:41 GMT -5
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Post by Wyndam on Jan 26, 2009 11:48:57 GMT -5
Some of them work but I think it's when a board gets moves or deleted the icon obviously ahs nothing to take you two. It needs updated with the cover for issue 17.  Also Is Aftermath going to go under the "After The Fall" board seen as it is just continuing to issue 18, 19, 20.... or is it getting a seperate board?   The board will be renamed Angel: Aftermath when those issues start coming out. That's why we created sub-boards for the After the Fall issues. |
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
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Posts: 2,786
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Post by Joe on Jan 26, 2009 17:12:07 GMT -5
I asked Phil about it a few days ago, he said he would fix it. He has yet to do it.
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
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Post by Joe on Jan 29, 2009 18:02:18 GMT -5
Buttons are working now for me!
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NileQT87
Common Vampire
Little Funky Angel[Mo0:3]
Posts: 78
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Post by NileQT87 on Jan 29, 2009 19:38:14 GMT -5
Rename it "season 6", not After the Fall and Aftermath. Those are only arcs, not the actual whole. And we have four titles that make up one continuing story, not just two. And Spike: After the Fall isn't a spin-off. It's just a prequel that also provides more information about Angel: After the Fall that can't be fully found there.
The words in the url for this section of SlayAlive already says "angelseason6", too.
I say we should make it "season 6" and break it up into First Night, Spike: After the Fall, each set of Angel: After the Fall and Angel: Aftermath (in that order).
Also, I think we should just choose the best of the covers for the icons, because some of those buttons aren't even the A covers (the #10 one with Angel and Illyria on the Hell-frozen-over cover is actually the B cover), while you've put A covers on there that were horrible next to the B covers. #8 with Gunn is also a B cover that you used instead of the Bat!Spike A cover. The first 5 should just use the Urru covers (or at least #3, #4 and possibly #5). #9 should use the big overhanging Illyria part rather than the drawing of not!Fred. #11--the Angel part of the drawing is the better likeness, IMO. Picking a lot of the iffy covers doesn't make this group of icons look right and bad next to the BtVS page.
Maybe we should vote on all the different covers and see which one wins for each icon shot. I'd even include the contest covers in the running for the forum icons.
My votes:
#1 - Urru cover with battle Angel.
#2 - Yellow cover with demons (but I'd be willing to go with Urru's for consistency among the first 5).
#3 - Urru cover with Illyria standing over Angel.
#4 - Contest cover with Spike in the red jammies, followed by Urru's Gunn and W&H.
#5 - Contest cover with half-Illyria/half-Gwen, followed by the Urru group shot.
#6 - Lorne is fine.
#7 - Contest cover with dead-Wesley and ghost-Wesley.
#8 - Contest cover with Gunn and Gwen. It's actually the most appropriate to the story of the three.
#9 - Tie between the Illyria over Fred and Hell-A Angel covers. Illyria's face is probably the winner for what I'd like to see as the icon.
#10 - Hell frozen over--the B cover. Either face, but we have an overload of Illyria up there. Angel's face, perhaps.
#11 - Gunn and Angel fighting--use the shot of Angel's face. Gunn's eye is strange.
#12 - Love the Connor shot, but I overall prefer the Wesley B cover due to Fred's likeness. Keep Connor. The early trio cover is almost tied with my fondness for green Wesley with the W&H card.
#13 - Connor over dying Angel. Angel's face is the better drawing of the two.
#14 - Illyria crushing Angel with its tentacles.
#15 - Urru cover with Angel, Spike, Connor and Wesley.
#16 - Angel's burning up salute.
#17 - We only have Urru's.
#18-#20 - We only have one cover for each so far.
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Post by Emmie on Jan 29, 2009 21:30:41 GMT -5
After the Fall isn't Season 6. Joss explicitly told them they couldn't call it Season 6.
Jeffrey Berman: Do you think about it in terms of seasons?
Joss Whedon: I do. I do. Season 8 will be 40 issues long; I know what Season 9 is about, it's very different from Season 8.
Jeffrey Berman: 40?
Joss Whedon: Yes.
Jeffrey Berman: Wow. Same thing with "Angel"?
Joss Whedon: The "Angel" thing is different. The "Angel" thing, they just, you know, they had a good writer, Brian Lynch, who had done a thing I admired, so I said, look, I can tell you where we were going with Season 6... You can't call it Season 6, because "Buffy" actually is Season 8, I'm literally executive producing the comic book.
Jeffrey Berman: I see.
Joss Whedon: I'm going through every script, I'm going through every sketch, I'm going through... I'm doing the job. On "Angel", I'll tell you basically what we had in mind, give you some ideas, and Brian and I went back and forth on a few things, then I just said "Good luck!"
If there are parts of the site calling After the Fall and Aftermath "Season 6", we just need to edit that. It's inaccurate. Besides, After the Fall is being told in a story very different from the Seasonal format. So it just doesn't make sense to call it Season 6 imo.
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NileQT87
Common Vampire
Little Funky Angel[Mo0:3]
Posts: 78
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Post by NileQT87 on Jan 29, 2009 22:50:53 GMT -5
That's when After the Fall was referred to as a 12-issue limited maxi-series. 26-27 issues is a bit more than a 12-issue "movie". It's quickly becoming a season, despite Joss' original intention of just a limited one-title maxi-series.
Lynch blossomed it into three titles with 21 issues and Kelley Armstrong is taking it over and there has been talk of them continuing the franchise with IDW further than that. Just because Joss isn't as actively participating doesn't mean his planned storyline is going to end any time soon. It's being continued. It's a multi-arc season now.
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Post by Emmie on Jan 29, 2009 22:54:50 GMT -5
The number of issues doesn't matter really. A seasonal format is one that has multiple mini-arcs coming together to make one greater story.
And again, if After the Fall were Season 6 it would say that on the comic. They legally can't call it that.
But more importantly, structurally it's not Season 6 because its format doesn't fit that of a season of AtS.
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NileQT87
Common Vampire
Little Funky Angel[Mo0:3]
Posts: 78
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Post by NileQT87 on Jan 29, 2009 22:59:22 GMT -5
Let's see... one story where each episode crashes into the next, sometimes several episodes happening in the space of one day... all with exactly one big evil during the entirety of the series. It sounds like AtS to me.
Remember, AtS was the show that boasted episodes 7 through 22 of season 4 happening in the space of 4 weeks and Quickening, Lullaby and Dad happening in pretty close to 24 hours.
You want mini arcs? They're named. First Night, Spike: After the Fall, Angel: After the Fall and Angel: Aftermath, and last time I checked they all add up into a cohesive whole and surround the same events with the same theme.
AtS is a different serialized format than BtVS. That was true with the shows. The comics follow the same formats their shows followed. BtVS is broken up into seasonal arcs with episodes that stand much more separately from each other while AtS is a serialized saga with the same storyline and villains being stretched over its entirety.
And AtS was never Joss' baby the way it was to David Greenwalt and Tim Minear. David Greenwalt created the character of Angel beyond being a shadowy character in an alley who gives information on the Master and the Harvest. David Greenwalt gave Angel his entire backstory. Joss didn't. Maybe we should ask Greenwalt, the other executive producer. Tim Minear took over in season 4 from Greenwalt and then Joss got more involved in season 5 AtS along with all the BtVS writers who were put out of work and moved over to AtS. AtS wasn't nearly so much his baby as BtVS was. Lynch and now Armstrong have taken over for Greenwalt, Minear, etc...
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Post by Emmie on Jan 29, 2009 23:29:54 GMT -5
Except the plotting of AtF in relation to Aftermath is unrelated by one vision or mind. Armstrong plotted it without consultatory input from Lynch basically. There is no creative writing force that's keeping all the narrative themes and threads tied together like Minear or Greenwalt, the way Joss is doing for Season 8.
Unlike a Season where the path of the story is plotted out from the beginning and made to fit thematically and structurally.
After the Fall just simply isn't Season 6. It's not called that by anyone with official power over it. And whether it's Joss' baby doesn't really matter because it's not. I feel almost like we're arguing canon here, which I'm not saying AtF isn't canon. But structurally it's not Season 6. It wasn't plotted out as a season and it doesn't have multiple writers working together 'n sync for the story. What's more, Lynch himself views After the Fall as a complete story with a beginning, middle and end.
Mini-arcs that follow a carefully plotted continuous story. First Night works as a quasi-flashback interlude, but Spike: After the Fall is incredibly problematic as it was released to coincide with the release of After the Fall. It mucks up the reading order because for new readers who aren't buying the comic as it's released...when do you read Spike: AtF? If you read it before you read AtF (which would be chronological), then you're spoiled for the Gunn vampire reveal.
It's not Season 6. It wasn't conceived to be in the format of Season 6. If it were, we'd have oneshots and mini-arcs that don't offshoot but are carefully planned into the main story so that each issue builds on the other in a clear reading order.
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NileQT87
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Little Funky Angel[Mo0:3]
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Post by NileQT87 on Jan 29, 2009 23:40:20 GMT -5
The theme is what happens after the alley. We have titles like "After the Fall" and "Aftermath"--both containing the word "after" and dealing with the failure of W&H and them losing their control of Angel and now L.A. Aftermath is the consequences of After the Fall. They aren't unrelated.
While you should read them in order of publication, afterwards they should be ordered chronologically. Unless you want to number them all together in the order of publication. Either way works. It's still one continuous story. And despite the "end" that Lynch has written for issue #17, the numbering isn't stopping for the reason that the story doesn't end there. #18 starts where #17 leaves off and is about what comes next. That's been very clear. The fact that we have a cover with Angel being surrounded by demon paparazzi is a direct consequence of issue #16 of After the Fall.
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Post by wenxina on Jan 29, 2009 23:55:40 GMT -5
At this point, the canon issue rears its ugly head. AtF is canon. No official word on the status of Aftermath. Yes, the events of Aftermath continue after the events of AtF, BUT it's because IDW owns the franchise (I may not have the technical language right), and have decided to do so. For an actual S6 to happen, in which AtF, Aftermath, etc are just part of the picture, it has to be called so by Joss himself. At least that's my definition of canon.
Sure, you can consider Aftermath and whatever else that comes after a part of the unofficial S6, if that's your prerogative, but for the sake of clarity and accuracy, I wouldn't lump everything under the banner of S6 just yet.
My point is (in case it was lost) is that we're not calling anything Angel Season 6 right now because no official word has ever been released that we may do so in good conscience.
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Post by Emmie on Jan 30, 2009 0:23:39 GMT -5
The theme is what happens after the alley. We have titles like "After the Fall" and "Aftermath"--both containing the word "after" and dealing with the failure of W&H and them losing their control of Angel and now L.A. Aftermath is the consequences of After the Fall. They aren't unrelated. Nile, I think you're misunderstanding me. After the Fall is a completed story in and of itself. #17 is the coda of the story. Aftermath is going to be a whole new story that continues the action of Angel, but isn't reliant on the same issues of After the Fall. And "what happens after the alley" isn't a theme. It's the plot. After the Fall is the canon continuation of ANGEL in a format that diverges from the Seasonal format. Where each episode had four acts, there were one-shots that diverged from the main story but still related thematically and then an overarching plot. After the Fall is too continuous without any sidebar stories to be considered a Season. It's not written to be in the same structure as an AtS season. That's the structure Season 8 is using. |
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by patxshand on Jan 30, 2009 0:31:44 GMT -5
It's not a legal matter. Legally, they can call it whatever they want. They're not calling it a season because of what Joss said, and because it's not a season. Angel has escaped the television medium, and unlike the Buffy comic, is letting the structure become like a comic series' structure. There won't be seasons, because seasons tell a long arc with stories that sort of tie in. I don't think this will. There will be longterm character development, sure, but to call it a season is to misunderstand what the Angel title is becoming.
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patxshand
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Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jan 30, 2009 0:32:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the "theme" correction, Emmie. English Major was about to come put the smack down.
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Post by Emmie on Jan 30, 2009 0:34:53 GMT -5
It's not a legal matter. Legally, they can call it whatever they want. I'm not really clear on the licensing issues. You're probably right that they can call it whatever they want. But there's something to that other writers (Peter David) have gone to Joss asking permission to use the characters. It seems like he still has some control, I'm just not clear on what. Or it could merely be de facto respect of his authority as creator. Not sure about the limits/allowances of IDW's license. They're not calling it a season because of what Joss said, and because it's not a season. Angel has escaped the television medium, and unlike the Buffy comic, is letting the structure become like a comic series' structure. There won't be seasons, because seasons tell a long arc with stories that sort of tie in. I don't think this will. There will be longterm character development, sure, but to call it a season is to misunderstand what the Angel title is becoming. Yes, my main points exactly. Thanks for the "theme" correction, Emmie. English Major was about to come put the smack down. Heh. The most feared of all monsters - the English Major. :vampirebite: |
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NileQT87
Common Vampire
Little Funky Angel[Mo0:3]
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Post by NileQT87 on Jan 30, 2009 6:24:29 GMT -5
The understanding of "season" here isn't even what the AtS show was. Sure, BtVS had all those little "side-bar" stories. Sometimes AtS did, but often it didn't and went on EXACTLY how AtF went... a continuous long line of connecting episodes that rarely happen one week later and storylines that were started at the beginning of the series still were being built upon seasons later (Jasmine wasn't quite a seasonal villain, seeing as though her tendrils went to the very root of many of the early plot points and W&H is the series-long villain). Because it isn't as split up as BtVS, does that mean that AtS doesn't have seasons?
Is a season when we go only from September to May? If AtS ever gets out of May 2004 (which it is right back to) and somehow gets to May 2005, is that season 6?
A season doesn't necessarily have to have "side-stories". That's the difference between "episodic" and "serialized". BtVS season 8 is episodic with a seasonal villain and a seasonal theme. The AtS comics have four arcs thus far, but they are largely serialized with the same villain the series had in City of... AtS' theme has always been Angel's search for redemption, humanity and helping the helpless. That didn't change no matter which season it was. Angel's character doesn't have a singular message per season the way BtVS does. He's a serialized saga with sort of one journey from Welcome to the Hellmouth until now--it's about his becoming a person and part of humanity. Buffy is more defined by singular seasonal themes than Angel is.
It's all one big ongoing theme for Angel and that's the difference between BtVS and AtS, and the same is seen in their comics. The comics are following exactly how the shows went. I seriously don't see the difference in the format of AtS vs. the AtS comics. It strikes me as following a lot of the same pacing. In fact, the AtS comics are more like their parent show than the BtVS comics are.
Also, it's good to remember that AtS often diverged heavily from the September to May format. There are several seasons that strongly hint that they go well into the summer (seasons 3--after Birthday--and 4--remember that there's only 19 days between Chosen and Conviction/Just Rewards and episodes that aired from the winter to that spring actually take place in 4 weeks during the next summer!). That sort of beats up the notion of seasons as well. The idea of it not being a season because it takes place in two months during the summer and then resets itself to the same night it left off not being a season because it doesn't flow with the usual seasonal television format, doesn't work with AtS--it broke the television air date reality all the time.
By your criteria, AtS doesn't fit as a seasonal series any more than the "season 6" or "post-season 5" comics do. In fact, the last episode or arc of AtS usually diverged from the rest of the season to set up the next season. Sometimes it went off to Pylea after Julie Benz couldn't stay for the end of season 2. That was like a post-coda coda. The seasonal plot had basically been wrapped up and they had a chunk of episodes left. You could perhaps look at Aftermath as a Pylea-like coda if you see #17 as being the actual end.
And there's a reason why Aftermath is #18 and not #1 of a new series.
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