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Post by dangerousbydesign on Nov 24, 2007 14:44:08 GMT -5
I loved both finales, I felt that Buffy's gave the show a lot more closure but it was also its time to end. The whole 1000 and 1 slayers thing was kinda a "ehh" at first but i got use to the idea.
I feel that the reason why angel's was so different is that it wasn't suppose to end there. The show was canceled prematurely causing Joss and co. to have to rush the end of season 5, if it wasn't for the WB pulling the plug things would of went much differently around mid season and on.
Still though in the end i was happy w/. the way it ended.
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Gothik
Innocent Bystander
Posts: 16
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Post by Gothik on Nov 25, 2007 11:56:38 GMT -5
Loved them both for different (and kinda exact opposite) reasons. Chosen gave a real sense of closure to that part of Buffy's life without the sudden end that The Gift would have offered. To this day I can never understand how anyone would have preferred it to end with season 5 and Buffy dead and buried. Sunnydale buried in the Hellmouth was far more appropriate. Why settle for burying a slayer when you can bury an entire town? On the flip side I loved the end of Angel because it didn't end the story. It gave a very cool final scene with a powerful message but didn't try to quickly end a storyline that was nowhere near complete. Coming up with a six episode conclusion to Angel's war against the Senior Partners would have been ludicrous. Especially with the tight timeframe the writers were given to end the show. The only two options were a quick fix battle where Angel somehow brought Wolfram and Hart down (resulting in the bad guys looking incredibly lame and weak) or Angel being killed to give closure that way. Neither option would have suited me so the choice to leave the outcome open ended was far and away the best idea. Especially with the possibility of continuing the story later, as we have seen happen.
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Post by henzINNIT on Nov 26, 2007 15:24:43 GMT -5
^ I prefer The Gift as a last episode over Chosen. It focuses on the core group, and although it does end with a dead Buffy, the others would have had more satisfying conclusions on the whole:
Giles ends as a "daddy" (plus that nice little Ripper murdering moment) Xander has finally become a man and him and Anya are getting married. Willow and Tara are reunited. Spike got that speach about being a monster treated like a man.
A slayer's life involves premature death anyway so I was never bothered that Buffy had to go. There are a few good moments in the next two seasons, but if Once More With Feeling never occurred I'd probably try to forget about 6 & 7.
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Gothik
Innocent Bystander
Posts: 16
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Post by Gothik on Nov 26, 2007 15:43:19 GMT -5
I'm kinda the opposite way around, when it comes to how I think about seasons 6 and 7. I think there were a few dire episodes (Life Serial, Doublemeat Palace, Killer In Me) and some rather dubious plotting and casting choices, but overall I enjoyed them.
Whilst I wish that certain elements could be magically removed, hopefully leaving a more consistent quality level over those two years, I certainly wouldn't want to see them erased altogether. Spike's development alone made the series' continuation essential viewing.
I get what you are saying about the closure of The Gift though. Had the show ended there then it certainly would have been an appropriate place to let it go.
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taraswizard
Common Vampire
Asst. Organizer Chicago Buffy meetup
Posts: 64
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Post by taraswizard on Dec 21, 2007 20:03:29 GMT -5
Here's my $0.02, and this is something I've thought about much more than is most likely healthy. NFA and Chosen are completely different types of episodes and any comparison at best. (For example, how would one compare Wizard of Oz to Lord of the Rings, talking about the books not the movies). They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Chosen is very much a story conclusion; IMO, that story is the story of the Slayer and the Sunnydale Hellmouth. Chosen is a very openended conclusion, the final words are [qupte]What d'ya wanna do now?[/quote]
Gothik wrote earlier This POV many fans have has never made any sense to me either?
This is just a partial message.
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emarie
Innocent Bystander
Posts: 34
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Post by emarie on Jan 7, 2008 19:18:10 GMT -5
Angel final totally. I loved the whole seeing into the character's perfect day scenes, and the way they ended it without showing the full fight was an inspired idea. But chosen was full of plot holes (the potentials start fighting before they get their powers? the ubervamps are all suddenly so much weaker), the white witch willow was just cheesy, and plus they killed off anya! The only really good bit about chosen was the town imploding. I feel the same. Angel gave time to all it's cast with some good character work. Spike finally reading his poetry in front of a crowd? Loved it. Angel talked to Connor. Wesleys' death was emotional. Lorne's heartbreaking favor to the group. Gunn still showing up to the fight though he was dying. It felt like the "final battle." BTVS had too many plot holes for me, not enough emotional reactions at points so that it didn't wow me like Angel did. I too preferred the season 5 Buffy final to Chosen.
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Post by hunter233 on Feb 3, 2008 7:34:57 GMT -5
So I'm gonna post here cause the balance is tipped far too much in favor of Chosen.
Chosen was great, but I definitely put my vote in for Not Fade Away. It was the perfect finale in that it perfectly embodied the theme of the show. People complain that it didn't show the final battle, or what happened to them, but that's what the show was all about. Season 2 made it very clear that evil, and, as its more or less official representatives, the Senior Partners, can not be beaten. Winning, the end, is not the point. The point is to do what you can every moment to make things better. The point is to fight. If they had shown what had occurred in that alley, even if it hadn't been an all out victory, it would have undermined that. Thematically, it was the absolute best thing for them to do to fade out with our characters fighting.
On top of that, as has been mentioned previously, Chosen had all sorts of technical problems, whether through continuity or logical issues. NFA, on the other hand, was nearly perfectly executed. I was always surprised that even with an almost last-moment cancellation they were able to create such a pefect finale. Maybe it was just luck (For example, if Buffy had been cancelled after Season 5, and that had been the finale, which some people think would have been the better one), or maybe Joss had that idea for the series finale of Angel all along, and just found a way to work it in to the current season. Either way, I think that it ended perfectly, to the point that despite enjoying them immensely, I'm still not sure I like the idea of After the Fall because it kinda spoils that ending by showing what comes next.
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Ethros
Novice Witch
I beat the bad guys[Mo0:0]
Posts: 291
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Post by Ethros on Feb 3, 2008 11:20:05 GMT -5
Chosen is a fantastic episode, but Not Fade Away is easily the best IMO My favourite episode of Angel, I just every second of it
"I'll make trophies of their spines"
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Post by henzINNIT on Feb 3, 2008 14:47:38 GMT -5
So I'm gonna post here cause the balance is tipped far too much in favor of Chosen. Chosen was great, but I definitely put my vote in for Not Fade Away. It was the perfect finale in that it perfectly embodied the theme of the show. People complain that it didn't show the final battle, or what happened to them, but that's what the show was all about. Season 2 made it very clear that evil, and, as its more or less official representatives, the Senior Partners, can not be beaten. Winning, the end, is not the point. The point is to do what you can every moment to make things better. The point is to fight. If they had shown what had occurred in that alley, even if it hadn't been an all out victory, it would have undermined that. Thematically, it was the absolute best thing for them to do to fade out with our characters fighting. On top of that, as has been mentioned previously, Chosen had all sorts of technical problems, whether through continuity or logical issues. NFA, on the other hand, was nearly perfectly executed. I was always surprised that even with an almost last-moment cancellation they were able to create such a pefect finale. Maybe it was just luck (For example, if Buffy had been cancelled after Season 5, and that had been the finale, which some people think would have been the better one), or maybe Joss had that idea for the series finale of Angel all along, and just found a way to work it in to the current season. Either way, I think that it ended perfectly, to the point that despite enjoying them immensely, I'm still not sure I like the idea of After the Fall because it kinda spoils that ending by showing what comes next. What a first post! 100% agreement and welcome to Slayalive.
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alycat7
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
I don't wanna be this good looking and athletic. We all have crosses to bear - Spike[Mo0:4]
Posts: 752
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Post by alycat7 on Feb 3, 2008 21:12:09 GMT -5
Chosen was the better finale. The only problem was, we knew buffy's team was gonna win. With angel, before seeing season 6, i honeslty thought that everyone was gonna die.
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Post by endofautumn on Feb 5, 2008 21:38:58 GMT -5
You think Life serial was dire? .....but the scene of buffy watching the mummy hand with tongs was just classic! As well as buffy going out on the piss with Spike, that was amusing. I mean come on, when do you ever these those two things happening? back to the topic, i cant choose between the Buffy or Angel Finale, its an evil question, EVIL! and should be banished
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worldwithoutshrimp
Innocent Bystander
"You could uh, could have like a world without shrimp. Or with, you know, nothing but shrimp."[Mo0:0
Posts: 45
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Post by worldwithoutshrimp on Feb 7, 2008 18:40:44 GMT -5
Well, "Chosen" is a great episode, don't get me wrong, and I think it is a better series finale than "The Gift" would have been (though "The Gift" is the better episode overall)... I just have to vote for "Not Fade Away". I like unexpected endings, and I must say, my reaction when the closing credits suddenly arrived at the end of the episode was "That. Was. AWESOME!" But the reason why I prefer NFA to "Chosen" is that it was simply better executed: there is nothing like the Ubervamp problem in NFA.
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Rachster
Bad Ass Wicca
♥Koala Girl♥
Rachster previousily know as buffyfanforever. :][Mo0:34]
Posts: 2,344
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Post by Rachster on Feb 8, 2008 1:07:45 GMT -5
buffy! the angel one was so sad i cried when wes died and allyria pretended to be fred it was soo sad but i was upset that anya died in buffy to and at the time spike because i did'nt relise he would be coming back in angel so i guess buffy (angel was still good) and its hard to compare the two they were both great in there own way xxx rach
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Post by chosenone87 on Feb 8, 2008 1:19:47 GMT -5
I felt ripped off by the Angel finale as well. I love Joss, and I think as a writer he's allowed to do whatever he wants with his stories. I just felt the decision to end Angel with that "SIKE! YOU DON'T GET TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS!" bit wasn't a good decision. Yes, I found that very disapointing that we didnt get to see what happens. And, I felt let down that ANgel never become human... there were hints and teases that he would but they never came to fruitation, which disapointed me.
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Rachster
Bad Ass Wicca
♥Koala Girl♥
Rachster previousily know as buffyfanforever. :][Mo0:34]
Posts: 2,344
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Post by Rachster on Feb 8, 2008 4:11:03 GMT -5
read the angel after the fall comic then u will know what happend
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Post by mpcuniverse on Feb 8, 2008 4:45:35 GMT -5
Personally I think that while NFA's cliffhanger was annoying Chosen felt rushed throughout the entire episode. I like both but yet would choose NFA over Chosen any day.
Oddly enough I do have a theory about not fade away though.
We see everyone's perfect day except for lorne's.
Personally when we see him talking to a crowd in Spin the Bottle I do believe that is what he is doing in the finale because in STB he is talking as if it's in the past.
Just thought that I would run that by you guys
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harsh
Innocent Bystander
Posts: 7
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Post by harsh on Feb 9, 2008 0:37:20 GMT -5
We do see Lorne singing the beginning of "If I Ruled The World", right after Angel's "take the day off" speech. I assumed that he spent the day at a karaoke bar and that was his perfect day. I kinda like your version better, and it totally fits since he walks out of the bar at the end of the episode, presumably at the end of the day.
I liked "Not Fade Away" more because the message was that sometimes there is no happy ending with trumpets and a parade. You do what you should do and fight evil up to the end. They weren't trying to put an end to evil and retire, just put a big dent in its plans even if that was the last thing that they ever did. Even if you can't win, you still fight. Something about that gets to me.
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Randi Giles
Wise-cracking Sidekick
I Want to Believe
Moon Eyes in disguise.[Mo0:34]
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Randi Giles on Jan 9, 2010 11:41:29 GMT -5
I'm kind of split on this one. I loved both of the finales, but NFA takes the cake on this one. I can't lie the ending when I first saw it kind of ticked me off cause like CowboyGuy said it would have nice to have seen a little bit of the fight. Then again after watching it so many times it started to make sense to me. This is definitely one of my favorite ATS episodes. I love how everybody was off doing their own thing thinking it would probably be their last day alive before the battle only to end up together at the end beaten and bloody but still standing tall ready to fight. It was an epic moment for me. As for Chosen it was also epic in its own way. I do prefer it as a series finale, but I have to agree that The Gift was a better episode. I also agree that it did seem like Chosen was rushed. I've always felt like it should have been a 2 hour finale.
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Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on Jan 9, 2010 15:44:58 GMT -5
Chosen was an better finale for me. Don't give me wrong Angel finale was fantastic. But chosen was action packed , and i love the theme of battle. When Anya dies royalties of fighting against the humans. Brilliant.
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 9, 2010 15:45:38 GMT -5
I prefer the Buffy ending as it was more triumphant, obviously a case of happy ever after. Angel's was more cynical and downbeat, probably suiting the nature of the series
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