Mathieu
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Post by Mathieu on Sept 7, 2008 5:52:23 GMT -5
Hi guys! I'm back on board here. I've been reading the last Buffy comics an most importantly I'm re-watching all of the Angel episodes given that I missed so many of them and having all those gaps in the Buffyverse is not an option any more.
Today I watched the last episode in which Kate Lockley does her final appearance with the final line to Angel "I never invited you in".
So what happened there when Angel rushed into her appartment to save her? Higher Powers interfering? I heard some people think she could have passed away and that would have allowed Angel to get in... but then she's not really dead.
What do you think Kate does after the show left her off? She had just gotten fired. What future for her?
Don't you think it's just a huge waste to abandon a character like that?? Didn't she need a proper ending like a painful death or something? In the Buffyverse people just leave, die or live, they don't just disappear. Or else they have to return. Oz left. Kate never left! She just got forgotten by others (and maybe the writers themselves!).
What's your opinion.
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eternalspikefan
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Post by eternalspikefan on Sept 7, 2008 6:52:31 GMT -5
I asked myself that a lot at the time! It really bugged me that they left an interesting character out in the cold basically. There was no reason not to include her in the show, she was already aware of the things that went bump in the night and I thought was a nice addition. They should have either killed her off, given her another avenue to go down job wise or had her leave town (perhaps to Sunnydale). I feel that they should have given her some closure though...she deserved that at least!. Glad Im not the only one who was annoyed at this
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Sept 7, 2008 8:34:51 GMT -5
Maybe Angel could enter her home because she "died inside". Her body was still alive but she wasn't actually there, if you know what I mean. That's kinda far fetched but that's what I think happened.
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Mathieu
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Post by Mathieu on Sept 7, 2008 8:37:22 GMT -5
Glad I'm not the only one annoyed too. To be honest I knew that she would be leaving the show around season 2 or 3 but I missed many of the episodes she appears in and the other day I just watched the one where she gets fired and tries to kill herself, then the one where she gets saved by Angel and I was wondering what's next now for her. And I looked up on the Internet because I was anxious to know and I realized it was actually the last episode for her. I then thought to myself: NO WAY. That's not a decent ending for such an interesting character. She was not fascinating in the beginning but she grew more interesting along the seasons. Her relationship to Angel was deep and kind of twisted. How she didn't believe in vampires until Angel introduced her to the dark world, how her dad got killed by ones, how she hates everything Angel represents and how she takes it all on him all the time, how she tries to help him fight the monsters in the end, how she gets fired for doing so. I would have loved to see her sired by a vampire eventually and become Angel's enemy or something even more surprising maybe. What about the Angel comics? Could she come back?
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Whedon Fan
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Post by Whedon Fan on Sept 7, 2008 8:37:50 GMT -5
Well in real life Elizabeth Rohm got another job as a cop on Law and Order so she had to leave the show, but in episode commentaries from Tim Minear he said that there wasn't really much left that they wanted to do with the charcter anyway. When Kate's character was first being created she was going to be a cop who was sent under cover to bring down a drug gang that was setting up business in LA but she had been under cover for so long that she had gotten to used/lost into the life she was leading. Angel talks to her about her addiction to the life and the drugs she had to take to protect her cover, he is really talking to her in a double meaning of her addiction and his own addiction of feeding off of blood. The network thought this was TOO dark for the show so the ideas were dropped but they decided to use it as a dark character progression for Kate. Kate started off as the steady police woman and slowly slipped away from everything she knew. Luckily Angel saved her though, this was supposed to be "fate" or "the powers that be" that let Angel into the apartment. I'm sure if the actress didn't have to leave the show they would have added her character into the show a few more times, especially into the major battles with The Beast and getting Angelus back. Probably when they went to Wolfram and Hart aswell seen as it is a law firm and she would have been a police woman. In her weird apperance in Angel After The Fall. (I say weird becasue it was only about three pages and she has never been back again and I've heard she never will be). Anyway she was back in LA and saved Connor from a group of demons, she blows off their heads with a shot gun and then takes Connor back to her base/hide out where we see that she has a ton of weapons and is leading a Tomb Raider type life but without the Tombs and raiding so she's more of a Rogue Demon Hunter now Hope this helped, I loved Kate on the show and her charatcer always interested me, she was very different to the people on Buffy and we hadn't seen any one like her in the Buffyverse before.
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Mathieu
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Post by Mathieu on Sept 7, 2008 8:39:35 GMT -5
Maybe Angel could enter her home because she "died inside". Her body was still alive but she wasn't actually there, if you know what I mean. That's kinda far fetched but that's what I think happened. Sounds far fetched to me too. I stick to the higher power idea. Something greater than them helping Angel save her?
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Mathieu
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Post by Mathieu on Sept 7, 2008 8:47:28 GMT -5
Thanks Whedon Fan for the post. I'm glad to hear she made an appearance in the S6 comics. Rogue Demon Hunter, uh? Nothing too surprising. As you said she was different from all the other characters known in the Buffyverse... probably because she was sort of a regular human trying to do her job as a cop. It brought some reality to the show. Not everybody is a vampire, or a slayer, or a watcher, or a witch, or a demon, or a werewolf, or a higher power, or a demon hunter, or a key... etc. Xander has been part of the scoobies too long for still being normal!
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darkdahlia
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Post by darkdahlia on Sept 7, 2008 17:56:39 GMT -5
oooooo I didnt like her. I never even paid attention to where she went. totally unmissed
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Mathieu
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Post by Mathieu on Sept 7, 2008 18:18:30 GMT -5
oooooo I didnt like her. I never even paid attention to where she went. totally unmissed uhmm.. she was about to get interesting though. She had potential. Let's say she was not totally uninteresting. But she left the show and the character was left off too early for the viewers to remember her as a good character.
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ligeia
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Post by ligeia on Sept 7, 2008 18:32:20 GMT -5
I didn't like her very much, but I agree that a proper closure for the character would have been nice.
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darkdahlia
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Post by darkdahlia on Sept 7, 2008 19:30:33 GMT -5
oooooo I didnt like her. I never even paid attention to where she went. totally unmissed uhmm.. she was about to get interesting though. She had potential. Let's say she was not totally uninteresting. But she left the show and the character was left off too early for the viewers to remember her as a good character. My thinking was "finally the writers realize this character is not where the show needs to go". And I was happy. There's always those two or so characters that are fun at first and then they get phased out for good reason. I didnt think her character had any kind of potential for greatness within the story.
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Mathieu
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Post by Mathieu on Sept 7, 2008 19:50:16 GMT -5
In the episode where Angel gets nuts because of the shroud or something I really thought he had killed her or that he would sire her or something. That would have been twisted but so great to watch... and kind of ironical.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Sept 7, 2008 20:00:53 GMT -5
I really wish Kate stayed around. She's easily one of my favorite recurring characters and I agree with everyone who is saying that she deserved some closure. The last scene in Epiphany between her and Angel is great, I just wish the writers could of added some 'goodbyes' between the two of them.
Elisabeth really wanted to fly back and forth between NY and LA to do both Law & Order and Angel, but her Law & Order schedule and the producers didn't like it. Lame. During a convention near the beginning of 2008, she said that she'd wished she just stayed with Angel because the people and fans were amazing.
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Post by Wyndam on Sept 7, 2008 20:07:52 GMT -5
I've always been a Kate fan. She was a fantastic character that was above and beyond different than most of the other characters that came out of the Buffyverse. She had a great character arc and an interesting dynamic with Angel, that I wish could have continued.
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Post by faithnspike on Sept 8, 2008 11:47:46 GMT -5
Not having her back during the actual plot would make her being in first night seem like a stunt to sell more comics. I trust Lynch will have a reason for bringing her back and that this will not end up being the case. However I could be wrong. I hope she comes back even if it is only for a few pages so we know what is going on with her. I love the character and think she could fit well into this story. I also would love to see Eve even though it is implied she died. Another character I felt needed more closer
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Post by jessesopher on Sept 8, 2008 12:33:07 GMT -5
Not having her back during the actual plot would make her being in first night seem like a stunt to sell more comics. I trust Lynch will have a reason for bringing her back and that this will not end up being the case. However I could be wrong. I hope she comes back even if it is only for a few pages so we know what is going on with her. I love the character and think she could fit well into this story. I also would love to see Eve even though it is implied she died. Another character I felt needed more closer I believe Brian said that she wasn't coming back in ATF. Maybe in Aftermath, though.....
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ligeia
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Post by ligeia on Sept 8, 2008 18:39:19 GMT -5
If Kate is not to be seen again in ATF, I think her return was lame and a stunt to sell more comics like faithnspike said.
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Post by Wyndam on Sept 8, 2008 20:05:35 GMT -5
If Kate is not to be seen again in ATF, I think her return was lame and a stunt to sell more comics like faithnspike said. Kate's return was more about indirectly imparting Angel's own wisdom to her onto his son, Connor, than it was actually about her returning. Kate helped Connor realize how he needed to help his father, and to stop worrying about his past life and false memories. She wasn't used as a gimmick to help sell issues.
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Post by jessesopher on Sept 8, 2008 20:43:12 GMT -5
If Kate is not to be seen again in ATF, I think her return was lame and a stunt to sell more comics like faithnspike said. Kate's return was more about indirectly imparting Angel's own wisdom to her onto his son, Connor, than it was actually about her returning. Kate helped Connor realize how he needed to help his father, and to stop worrying about his past life and false memories. She wasn't used as a gimmick to help sell issues. Exactly. I love Kate, she's one of my favorite characters of either show, but I doubt a 3 page sliver of a story would really sell that many copies. The story was really about more about Connor, not Kate. But it was nice to see her .
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Post by faithnspike on Sept 8, 2008 21:47:28 GMT -5
However they kept Kate’s identity hidden and kept saying that an old character was returning in first night. If it really had nothing to do with selling comics why would they bother telling us ahead of time that she was coming back and hiding her identity so we would buy the comic to find out who she was
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