Buffy-fans vs Twilight-fans: Why the hate?

[Skytteflickan88]

thebuffyverseaddict.blogspot.com/2009/02/my-thoughts-buffy-fans-vs-twilight-fans.html

Your thoughts? I just don't get the hate. The dislike and the joking is okay, but man, some people take it too far.

[Saturn 5]

I think hate is too strong a word, I think we find it all a bit sappy, that's all

[Essentially Yours]

Obviously, there's going to be some rivalry going between two shows centered around similiar aspects even if the themes are different.

I don't see what's wrong with those shirts... "Buffy staked Edward. The end." ? The article stressed that people need to have open minds and everyone has a right to their own opinion. So if my opinion is that I find the shirt funny in a joke-way, does that still make it wrong for me to wear it?

I understand the need for constructive criticism, but the article seemed a bit biased.

[Saturn 5]

To refer back to the original article, plenty of vamps have superspeed (not to mention Glory) and Buff bested them all. Besides this Edward guy would probably be too busy mooning tragically or whatever

[Skytteflickan88]

Feb 8, 2009 12:48:07 GMT -5 Essentially Yours said:

I don't see what's wrong with those shirts... "Buffy staked Edward. The end." ? The article stressed that people need to have open minds and everyone has a right to their own opinion. So if my opinion is that I find the shirt funny in a joke-way, does that still make it wrong for me to wear it?

Nope, not wrong. I just find it to be bad taste. But that's me.

I understand the need for constructive criticism, but the article seemed a bit biased.

Well, you got me there. I'm biased. I tried to sound unbiased tough. Where did I go wrong?

[Kara]

Being both a Buffy and Twilight fan I dislike the sudden fad of buffy-fans hating on Twilight. It's become this 'My vampires are better than yours' type of thing and it's pretty annoying. :/

[snizapman6294]

Buffy has completely ruined anything vampire related in the media... i refuse to watch Vampire based horror movies, even the old ones for some reason... i think the answer to "Why the hate?" is that fact exactly... that Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel has ruined vampire based films, tv shows, and books for a lot of people.

this doesn't apply to everyone however, i know a lot of poeple who are die hard buffy and die hard twilight fans...

[Sanity Fair]

I got the first two Twilight books for Christmas and when I was through I immediately went out and bought the last two. That said, I don't think the Twilight books are all that great - or at least not as great as some people make it out to be. It was a fun story and I did want to read and see what happened next, but the writing just wasn't very good. To me the pacing of the books was often either much too fast or painfully slow. The conflict with James in Twilight did not appear until the book was almost over and seemed almost to be tacked on as an afterthought; and they got rid of the Cullen family so quickly in New Moon for what I believe to be a stupid reason (Jasper tried to attack Bella because she got a paper cut so now Edward believes he and his family are a danger to Bella - now - after everything that happened in Twilight: the crazy vamp almost killing her because she was seen with the Cullens; Edward, himself, constantly telling her that he worried she'd never make it home when she was out with him; Edward revealing his vampy strength to her by saving her in the car accident putting Bella and his family at risk) but now - all of a sudden - he thinks that it's too dangerous for the Cullens to stay in town? Seriously? Then after that wft moment the pacing gets sooo slow and Bella wonders for hundreds of pages about what's up with Sam and then later Jacob when the reader figures it out as soon as Jacob and Bella see Sam and friends at the cliffs - and then to make it worse, Meyer knows she told us in the first book and even has Jacob remind Bella she already knows - if she knows the reader knows why, why, why would she drag it out for so long?

That's not my biggest issue with Twilight though, that honor goes to Bella and Edward's 'relationship' - it seems so shallow. He's interested in her because he can't hear her thoughts and is a test for his self-control when he finds she smells delicious. She's interested in him because he's gorgeous. That's it, that's all their relationship is ever based on. I found myself agreeing with Rosalie and identifying with her point of view throughout the entire series, even though all she does in the first book is speak one or two lines/growls and throw Bella dirty looks.

Individually Bella and Edward aren't even that complex or 3-dimensional. Bella's main characteristics are 1) she is the most clumsy person to walk the face of the earth and 2) makes horrible stupid decisions having no regard for her own life. While Edward gets his jollies by testing his own boundaries and trying to freak out Bella and getting angry when it doesn't work - he can't hear her thoughts so he tries to control her by putting her in situations where 'normal' people would freak out, but Bella doesn't, which just feeds his obsession to figure her out. Alice, on the other hand, has a real personality and is one of the most complex and interesting character in the series - along with Rosalie who doesn't get nearly enough attention.

Regarding the sparkly vampires in sunlight thing, it wouldn't have seemed so silly if Edward wouldn't have been so "OMG wait til u see me in the sun, you'll b so scared!" He's there sparkling, making a big production out of it taking her to this secluded meadow, taking off his shirt and stepping into the light, then is disappointed that Bella (and the reader) doesn't find glitter frightening. If she didn't freak out when he told her he wanted to kill her, what made him think pretty sparkles would do the trick? I don't have a problem with any of the attributes Meyer gives to her vampires, in fact I like that she did something to distinguish her vamps from all the other vampire stories out there.

Despite all of my gripes, I have to say that I did enjoy reading the Twilight series, but to compare it to something like Buffy which had such complex well-written relationships and characters - both human and vampire, there really is no contest at all. Oh and I think the 'Buffy staked Edward. The end.' shirt is funny . . . it could be a nice conversation starter lol

[slayersarah]

Feb 8, 2009 15:57:37 GMT -5 Kara said:

Being both a Buffy and Twilight fan I dislike the sudden fad of buffy-fans hating on Twilight. It's become this 'My vampires are better than yours' type of thing and it's pretty annoying. :/

i completely agree with you Kara, and i agree with the article for the most part. although i think it's ok to make fun of Twilight (personally i love the "Buffy staked Edward. The end." shirt). but it's just getting a little out of hand. and i don't find Stephenie Meyer's writing to be completely horrible. (obviously i'm biased though.) even i will admit the beginning of most of her books is boring, but after the first couple chapters they become difficult to put down. and it's not as if her writing is as incompetent as some people make it seem. i learned a lot of new words from reading her books. so that either makes me an idiot, or the critics of her writing extremely smart geniuses. i love Buffy and Twilight pretty much equally so the Twilight hate hurts me a bit. (i know that sounds lame. ) for the most part i don't really mind the Twilight hate. i try to brush it off, but it does get to me sometimes and for some reason it gets to me more when it comes from Buffy fans. maybe that's cuz Buffy & Twilight both have vampires so i was expecting more fans of both. but it's almost turned into a competion like Kara said of "My vampires are better than yours." Whether the vamps sparkle in the sun or turn to dust in the sun, they rule IMO.

[Fredikins]

I dont know why people are taking that 'buffy staked edward, the end' t-shirt so seriously.
i am honestly considering buying that, it makes me laugh so much.
im a long time buffy fan and a twilight lover,
but buffy and twilight cant really be compared if you think about it.
i mean, yes, they both have vampires in them but the stories are entirely different.
there are some people that are for twilight, some for buffy and some for both!
why be so serious about it all, laugh, you're world won't crumble if someone says that vampires sparkling is stupid.
geez, get over it. (that last world crumbling part was directed at the people who scream "BLASPHEMY" at twilight teasers. if you get me)
heheh *looks up with innocent eyes*

[Rachster]

Feb 9, 2009 2:25:36 GMT -5 slayersarah said:

Feb 8, 2009 15:57:37 GMT -5 Kara said:

Being both a Buffy and Twilight fan I dislike the sudden fad of buffy-fans hating on Twilight. It's become this 'My vampires are better than yours' type of thing and it's pretty annoying. :/

i completely agree with you Kara, and i agree with the article for the most part. although i think it's ok to make fun of Twilight (personally i love the "Buffy staked Edward. The end." shirt). but it's just getting a little out of hand. and i don't find Stephenie Meyer's writing to be completely horrible. (obviously i'm biased though.) even i will admit the beginning of most of her books is boring, but after the first couple chapters they become difficult to put down. and it's not as if her writing is as incompetent as some people make it seem. i learned a lot of new words from reading her books. so that either makes me an idiot, or the critics of her writing extremely smart geniuses. i love Buffy and Twilight pretty much equally so the Twilight hate hurts me a bit. (i know that sounds lame. ) for the most part i don't really mind the Twilight hate. i try to brush it off, but it does get to me sometimes and for some reason it gets to me more when it comes from Buffy fans. maybe that's cuz Buffy & Twilight both have vampires so i was expecting more fans of both. but it's almost turned into a competion like Kara said of "My vampires are better than yours." Whether the vamps sparkle in the sun or turn to dust in the sun, they rule IMO.

I love you.

lol, i actually find all the twilight hate quite funny i love both and they are both so different from each other...i really do find it hard to compare them at all, a lot of people i know that are anti twilight have never even seen the movie or read the book. and as for Buffy fans it's actually kind of hurtful i mean really how many vampire books/movies are around these days? and yet Twilight is the only one to be picked on in this way it's not like Stephanie Meyer stole anything from Buffy. also i think the sparkling is a nice change from fire and death and pain... :heartsatsu:

[Kara]

I love you.

lol, i actually find all the twilight hate quite funny i love both and they are both so different from each other...i really do find it hard to compare them at all, a lot of people i know that are anti twilight have never even seen the movie or read the book. and as for Buffy fans it's actually kind of hurtful i mean really how many vampire books/movies are around these days? and yet Twilight is the only one to be picked on in this way it's not like Stephanie Meyer stole anything from Buffy. also i think the sparkling is a nice change from fire and death and pain...

LOL! Yeah the way Stephenie took the vampire mythology and kinda created her own twist on it was pretty awesome.

I can admit that the story isn't the best book ever in the world but it kept me wanting more and desperate to know the ending. Which personally is what a book should do to it's reader.

[BlueJay]

Why the hate? Cuz Buffy pwns Twilight. 'Nuff said.

Want more?

Okay, seriously... the reason why there is a hate (which I think is kinda pathetic to "hate" a series) is because people who've been watching Buffy since the 90's have this ideal image of vampires in their head, which, may I add, has similarities to the classic vampire, among other series vampires (Blade, Anne Rice, etc). Now, fast forward to 2005 and these "Twilight" books poof into existence (...literally) and slowly take over the minds of teen girls everywhere instilling this new image of vampires, turning them from rabid, evil monsters to these sparkly, whiny models. And that's basically the main reason why Buffy fans hate Twilight. It took the vamp mythos and (in my opinion) chick-ified it. And it's not so much the series, it's the Twilight FANS. You know how annoying it is to hear a group of little girls chatter it up about Twilight? Now, personally, I don't "hate" Twilight. Not a book fan, so I didn't read the books...just watched the movie. It was good in its own right, I'm not gonna lie. But it can't (and won't ever) even compare to Buffy's standards. So therefore, Buffy stakes Edward. The End.

[Spiked]

I've read all of the Twilight books (in fact, I read them before I watched Buffy). I'd even go as far as saying I'm slightly addicted to them (although while reading them, I can usually think little more than "Why am I reading this garbage?") But my hate for them vastly overpowers my guilty pleasure. And I can say with some certainty that I don't hate Twilight because I'm a Buffy fan...I hate it for a number of reasons, including the fact that it's terribly written, sexist, cheesy, melodramatic, and filled to the brink with Mary Sues. And it doesn't help that Bella is clearly Stephenie Meyer's self-insert. In fact, I found this gem to further prove my point: i108.photobucket.com/albums/n14/infava/pictures/smeyerbella.jpg

But the main reason I hate Twilight is because of its horrible effect on teenage girls. Before Twilight came out, I would always scoff at people who thought that almost all teenagers were incredibly easily influenced by the media. Now, I can see what those people were getting at. I'm in high school, so I'm always surrounded by Twihards, and a huge percentage of them truly believe that they are/want to be Bella. Thanks to her, a lot of my friends now believe that they are clumsy, plain, and incomplete without their "own personal Edward."

Now, it would be one thing if Bella was a strong, inspiring figure, but I am not exaggerating when I say she is the single most pathetic character I've seen in fiction or real life. She's supposedly clumsy, unattractive (which is hard to believe, considering the fact that literally every boy in her school falls madly in love with her as soon as she steps on campus), and plain, but that's definitely not what makes her such a horrible influence. She falls so madly in love with Edward within the first two chapters of meeting him that she literally gives up her friends, family, hopes, and dreams just to be with him. And she fell for him not because of his personality (that would be impossible, because he doesn't have one), but because he is supposedly the single most beautiful man in the world. She doesn't even mind that he's an abusive stalker who cuts her brakes to prevent her from seeing her friends, watches her sleep without telling her, and CONSTANTLY tells her how much he wants to kill her and how easily he could do it...in fact, she embraces it and just calls him "protective."

And don't even get me started on what happens to Bella during the rest of the series. In New Moon, after Edward leaves at the beginning, a bunch of pages of the book are blank except for the name of the month to represent how empty her life is without him, and towards the end of the book, she jumps off a cliff and nearly kills herself (but is luckily saved by another strapping young werewolf man) because putting herself in danger supposedly makes her "hear his voice." In Eclipse, she allows Edward to control her and stop her from seeing Jacob and barely even tries to stop him. And don't even get me started on Breaking Dawn, when she gets married to Edward mere months after she graduates from high school, sobs and begs him for sex on their honeymoon, has a baby that she refuses to abort even though it's literally killing her, and eventually gives up her humanity so that she can be part of his family. If that's not poorly-concealed Mormon propaganda, I don't know what is.

Sorry about the rant...I just really don't like Twilight.

[BlueJay]

Wow, Spiked. I never read the books, so I wouldn't know the non-Buffy perspective of it. But wow.

[Essentially Yours]

I agree... wow indeed, Spiked.

It seems like Bella is the Anti-Buffy.

[Saturn 5]

In 'School Hard' Angel remarks to Spike about the 'I'm so tortured routine' and Spike laughs at people still believing 'That Anne Rice crap'. I think that's why Buffy fans don't take Twilight seriously, Buffy took the whole vamp romance idea and turned it into a funny, smart postmodern idea. By contrast I think the whole idea of Twilight reminds me of Ford and his vamp worshippers in Lie to Me. I don't think we 'hate' Twilight but comparing Buffy to Twilight is like comparing U2 to New Kids on the Block

[Iceeh★]

Spiked, I think we have the same brain. I too read Twilight before I saw Buffy, and share the same dislikes. Especially for the Twihards who will have a spaz attack if you say you hate the series.

[Skytteflickan88]

Hmmm, after reading this thread, I think I get the Twilight-hate a little better. I'm still against being rude about it, but now when it's brought to my attention, young easily influenced teens could easily "scarred" by these books. I didn't see it from a teenagers point of view. When I read Twilight, I sat there, hoping Bella would get some backbone, while still admiring her for her kindness. I shook my head many times while reading the book, seeing the flaws in the characters, but still wanting them to succed.

I had some perspective while reading the books, a feminine and realistic viewpoint, not really believing that Bella & Edward's love was realistic and would last forever but still enjoying the romance.

I don't think I would let my future potential kids read these books before I was sure that they had a healthy view of the world. Still, I really like Twilight.

[Kara]

Blegh. Spike you seem to just really *hate* Bella. Which I can understand. Bella is probably the last person a teen girl should look up to. Her whole world revolves around a boy to a point that she drops all her friends when he starts paying attention to her. She's willing to die just to worship him for eternity. So if you are gonna judge the book on just one character then yeah the book definitely won't work for you. I personally try and see past Bella's insane flaws and appreciate the other more realistic characters. Luckily the movie turned Bella into an actually like-able character (Many thanks Kristen Stewart<3) so I definitely prefer the movie over the book. Which I think will be the case with many people who've read and hated the book.