trunkstheslayer
Potential Slayer
Bad day. Started bad, stayed that way.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 188
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Post by trunkstheslayer on Jan 21, 2009 12:19:57 GMT -5
I've been waiting for this issue for soooooo long. To write it, to see the art for it, to read your reactions to it. This is the issue I will re-read a lot, years from now, when I want to read something I had a hand in. Issue 17 is great too, I'm proud of it and Franco did some wonderful, wonderful art. Issue 16 is the conclusion to the adventure, to the storyline, the dramatic climax. Issue 17 is the character resolution, the quiet epilogue (as quiet as ANGEL can get, anyway, which is to say, it's still got demons, high stakes, and fisticuffs) and sets the stage for some things to come. I honestly cannot wait for 16 to be in everyone's hands. I'm glad we have two more issues to share with each other. I was actually hoping to ask you exactly that, so thanks for covering it already. Felt like this issue resolved the major action of the run. Kinda reminiscent of season four (both of Angel and Buffy actually). The final ulta-battle stuff went down in the penultimate episode rather than the finale. Read it, LOVED it. Have a guess to what that 'favorite scene' of yours may be but I'll hold off since I'm apparently the first one back from the store and onto here. The art was phenomenal. The character reactions to "That big thing" were great, especially Illyria. I do have one small bit to question but I dunno how to do the spoiler tag thing so...uh...yea. Yellow text? When 'you know who' gets revealed to Angel after the hospital scene....am I the only one to think that might've been the type of 'perfect happiness' that should lose Angel his soul? *shrugs*
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jan 21, 2009 15:04:33 GMT -5
Nah, don't think perfect happiness. With his best friend dead and his other close friend in the hospital, the happiness couldn't have been perfect. Huge, swelling (this sounds dirty), and tear jerking, yeah... but couldn't be perfect.
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BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Jan 21, 2009 15:10:31 GMT -5
Dude! Where do you get the issues the day they're released? My comic shop gets them like one month after they're already released.
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Post by Brian Lynch on Jan 21, 2009 15:20:58 GMT -5
Nah, don't think perfect happiness. With his best friend dead and his other close friend in the hospital, the happiness couldn't have been perfect. Huge, swelling (this sounds dirty), and tear jerking, yeah... but couldn't be perfect. Exactly. Gunn and (most definitely) Wes' situation prevented a moment of PURE happiness. I'm gonna go into more detail about stuff once more people have read it. But I hope everyone that reads it enjoys it. I've had a colored print-out of the splash page (you know the one, a few pages into the issue) on my wall for months now. I can't believe how beautiful it came out.
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Post by Emmie on Jan 21, 2009 15:46:08 GMT -5
My reaction: I've been a vocal critic of After the Fall recently. Or rather, when I wasn't squeeing over the parts I was in love with - Urru's return, Fabio Mantovani doing the art, everything in #15. But I went through something today that made me fully realize how much I love this series. I hate waiting. Waiting is evil. That's why purgatory is so feared - you're waiting for an eternity. Lynch - if W&H has completely shelved their Hell-A plan, they should give Purgatory-A a try. It's WAY more evil. Traffic jams are evil. Commercials, even the time it takes to fast-forward through the commercial, are evil. Radio commercials are even more evil, but that's also because they're made to be annoying. My own personal hell would be me stuck in a doctor's waiting room, forced to listen to annoying radio commercials while I wait for the music to come back, fast-forwarding through TV commericals where the show never plays. And also somehow stuck in traffic so that I'm forever waiting to get where I want to be. Waiting. *shivers* [The following involves a story related to a political figure - I'm not intending to stir the political waters. The events are true, but names have been altered to prevent a political massacre. I promise I have no political agenda. I'm trying to be funny. Sometimes I miss my mark. ]I also realized there was an unforeseen downside to who I voted for this past November. Oblamarama, you hit me where it hurt today. That's right, Oblamarama - one day into your term as President and you're spreading evil throughout America. I waited in line at my comic bookstore for over an hour, outside in the moderately cold (but let's pretend it was freezing so this story gets me more sympathy) weather. I waited alone, oh so alone (except I was talking on the phone and complaining the entire time). But you get the picture - EVIL. A personal hell created for an impatient person. So how is this Oblamarama's fault, you ask? The. Amazing. Spider-Man. Cameo. I went through purgatory today to get my After the Fall #16 and as soon as it was bought and paid for, I went to my car and read it. I simply refused to wait any longer. So here's my testament to the quality of this issue. Two simple words: Worth. It.
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Post by Brian Lynch on Jan 21, 2009 15:58:53 GMT -5
Thank you, Emmie!
I'm disappointed but not surprised some people are thinking it's a complete reset. I think it's exciting to have the characters, and a city, go through hell, and live to deal with their experiences there. The characters are all sorts of mixed up as a result of their experiences, but I do completely get the gut reaction being "hey, they went back to where it started, nothing's changed"...hopefully, upon re-reading it, the (so far, thankfully) minority that does think that now will be won over.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 21, 2009 16:24:15 GMT -5
Just a question. Is it 17 issues or is this the last one? Because I really though it was 17 but I'm getting other signals now.
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Post by Emmie on Jan 21, 2009 16:26:09 GMT -5
It's 17 issues, Sky. One more left. /
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jan 21, 2009 16:29:11 GMT -5
So excited we're getting both the "After the Fall" conclusion and "Aftermath" next month. Perhaps that means we'll be getting #17 a bit earlier in the month than Angel usually comes out.
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Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Jan 21, 2009 16:45:08 GMT -5
Anyone feel like giving a (big) spoiler with what happened in this issues? (waiting for the TPB are hell)
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watcher
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 211
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Post by watcher on Jan 21, 2009 17:16:28 GMT -5
Yeah someone spoil us already
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iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:10]
Posts: 684
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Post by iloveromy on Jan 21, 2009 17:30:10 GMT -5
The twist was kinda Donnie Darko. I had Mad World playing in my head.
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Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Jan 21, 2009 17:31:27 GMT -5
So is anyone that we thought died still alive ?
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jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
Claimer of Funn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,174
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Post by jellymoff on Jan 21, 2009 17:55:39 GMT -5
The verdict is still out for me. I need to read it again. I liked the storytelling, and how they got out of it all was pretty creative, but I am having a bit of a hard time with the "reset". I know that it is not a total reset, since everyone remembers what happened in hell, but my eyes feel a bit decieved having shed tears for Connor. No matter what, I still think that is was a fantastic series (with one more to go).
It is interesting to see how everyone reacts to them being back in the alley; everyone's all confused, and Illyria is acting particulary strange (by strange I mean human).
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Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Jan 21, 2009 17:59:04 GMT -5
So are Connor and Illyria Alive ?
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Jan 21, 2009 18:19:58 GMT -5
this is the whedon/lynch verse so alive...dead..its all relative
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Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Jan 21, 2009 18:27:04 GMT -5
this is the whedon/lynch verse so alive...dead..its all relative I guess one more issue left... and we will see if time doesn't go back.... and then there is aftermath.
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balesthebloody
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Angel's gettin' some! Good on you mate!"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 733
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Post by balesthebloody on Jan 21, 2009 18:51:10 GMT -5
This issue was just...WOW! Sure I saw it coming, but still it was done right. I will get into it more once more people have to time to read it.
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Post by dgryphon on Jan 21, 2009 18:56:04 GMT -5
Personally, I thought that this was a great way of resolving Hell-A. The rising action to the ultimate climax of the alley was absolutely incredible.
Okay, so we don't have a complete reset. It's sort of part-way, which I don't think takes away from the emotional growth and torment our characters have gone through. That being said, I have a healthy amount of hesitation at trusting this entirely. I feel like it can go forward into an amazing direction (see past 2 issues) or falter and become something very cheap. I have faith in Bryan, but I'm not well known for optimism.
The true question, I think, is if ATF ends on a completely different note than when it began. We've had this incredibly dark, emotional journey that CANNOT end with Angel simply becoming a celebrity and changing his life around LA. We need some sort of resolution to what happened with explanations for the characters. But that's just me.
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Post by Wyndam on Jan 21, 2009 19:00:07 GMT -5
First, WOW!
Second, WOW!
Third, this issue knocked my socks off. Angel: After the Fall #15 started a trend of perfection (both with the art and writing), and this issue just keeps on rolling. With the preview, I started to prepare myself for a reset of some kind. It seemed like that was the direction the story was going, and the "reset" we got in this issue was pretty damn brilliant.
Only it isn't a reset, not in the slightest. Just trying to wrap my head around what we find out in the last half of this issue is nearly impossible. The characters went through so much in Hell (half of them died), and now that they are all back, with a complete recollection about what happened, is great and just bleeds a tidal wave of future story potential.
So. Much. Happened. Angel and Gunn's chat/mauling was spectacular, epic and exciting, and then two pages later, L.A. is back to normal. Wesley's plan worked, and Wesley is gone. Again. Not sure how I feel about that, but it just wasn't possible for him to stick around. Wonder if Angel will try and retrieve his body again?
The dialogue in the alley as soon as L.A. returned to normal was superb, probably some of my favorite in the series. I was really happy to see Illyria again, and I think that out of all that happened, Hell-A had the most impact on her (although Gunn and Connor went through a ton as well). Just the fact that she feels remorse for her role in killing Fred made me tear up. One of my favorite moments of the series, easily.
Angel is a vampire again. I figured this is what would happen if Angel forced Wolfram & Hart to fix his timeline, and I am okay with it. I was also surprised when Angel stopped fighting to find Gunn. With all of the excitement of being back in the alley, I completely forgot that Gunn was even there, and human. With all of his Hell-A memories intact, I can't wait to see the effect this has on him (assuming he survives, which he better!).
All of this and I am not even to Connor yet, what a packed issue. Angel bursting into tears at the sight of Connor was amazing, and my favorite part of this issue. I can't wait for more interaction between the two of them, whether in After the Fall #17 or Aftermath, if Connor continues on in the series.
With Buffy: Season 8 #21 out recently, I noticed how much this issue really gels with what happened in #21. I was disapointed that there wasn't much of a reaction from the public when Harmony bit A. Dick but now it all makes sense. Whether this collaboration, of sorts, was intended - who knows. But it really, really works well, and I love it. The dialogue from the hospital staff and L.A. public was really awesome. Angel is a public hero now, how cool is that?
Brian said that After the Fall would have a definite ending, while leaving the story open to continue, and he was right. The sheer possibility of future stories is insane. Will Lorne, Groo, Nina, Gwen come and find Angel and Co.? There is some great potential for Connor and Gwen (yay Gwonnor), as well as some redemption on Gwen's part (Illyria and Gunn too). I am thrilled that we have more Angel to look forward to.
Before we got the After the Fall #16 preview, I think a lot of us were worried that Angel would be going into Aftermath alone (or at least with Spike in tow), but now that is certainly not the case. We have a lot to look forward to now, and I am so thrilled at all of the possibilities.
Going to bring this back to Wesley, as all this chatter about future possibilities is rather depressing on the "Wesley front." Is it possible for a character to have two perfect exits? His final words to Spike were heart wrenching, just like his final scene with Illyria in Not Fade Away. While I definitely can wish that there is more in store for Wesley, I just don't see it happening. The Wolfram & Hart L.A. branch is gone, so there is no need for a conduit or watchdog, which was Wesley's original purpose in Hell-A. I also have to wonder what effect this will have on Angel's future adventures. Despite their past, Wesley was Angel's closest friend. Angel relied on Wesley to figure out what to do. Hell, it was Wesley who figured out that Angel had to die in order to set things right. When Aftermath roles around, I am probably most interested in how Angel does without Wesley there to support him. Angel survived most of his life without Wesley's help, so I have faith he will be fine without him, but it does make me a little bummed that this could very well be the end of the Angel/Wesley relationship.
Boy did I babble, and I didn't even really talk about the art. I'll sum it up: perfect.
Angel: After the Fall: perfect.
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