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Post by ilovewillow on Aug 11, 2009 14:03:04 GMT -5
Wooo I got my issue finally from ebay I was so shocked to see that Oz has a kid!! As if. He's happy so I guess that's all that matters. Guess that rules out him and Willow getting back together? I also loved the scenes with Giles and the baby, made me laugh. As well as Dawn and Xander grossed out by the yak tea lol. It's a shame Willow seeing Oz so happy and settled has made her feel miserable. I hope there's some way to change her future. I don't want her to die :/ x x x
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Aug 11, 2009 20:46:51 GMT -5
See, the reason that I believe Dawn and Xander will now happen, is because in the Q&A, it was said that we need to look at what Xander is doing in the background. He is probably doing Dawn.
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Post by Rebecca on Aug 12, 2009 0:56:04 GMT -5
Hahaha. Very blunt.
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cutiepatootie
Common Vampire
lay waste to the world, and everything in it[Mo0:0]
Posts: 87
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Post by cutiepatootie on Aug 12, 2009 7:37:55 GMT -5
D'aww. I really liked Bay. And she's a HUGE werewolf! Woah. I enjoyed the way that she turned into the big bad wolf when Oz was in danger. It'd be pretty cool to be able to slip in and out of the wolf, which is what I presume they are able to do now.
I am also a fan of the new werewolf designs and the way Oz and the others pass the power through them back into the Earth. A nice simple explanation, very cleanly done by the writers.
But...how come Twilight killed the glasses dude who found the magical spike? Seems abit harsh to me haha.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 12, 2009 8:00:44 GMT -5
But...how come Twilight killed the glasses dude who found the magical spike? Seems abit harsh to me haha. Because he questioned why Mr. Anti-Magic Twilight uses so damn much magic all the time... and Twilight doesn't want suspicions about his motives starting to circulate among his minions.
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Post by Rebecca on Aug 12, 2009 12:07:12 GMT -5
I thought he killed the glasses dude because the spike "proved to be false" as the submarine was covered by dirt, and no sign of it was available to Twilight.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 12, 2009 12:29:28 GMT -5
I thought he killed the glasses dude because the spike "proved to be false" as the submarine was covered by dirt, and no sign of it was available to Twilight. Twilight and his goons actually teleported to Mongolia, not to Tibet, so they were nowhere near Buffy. Amy's spell must have gone wrong... either because Willow and her Wiccans messed it up with misdirection magic, or because Riley sabotaged it somehow. If glasses guy was executed for making a mistake, it's odd that Amy wasn't criticized at all for compounding that mistake.
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Post by Rebecca on Aug 12, 2009 12:52:25 GMT -5
Oh, I didn't realize it was Mongolia. I figured the sub was covered since Oz talked about it.
Then yes, I agree, it was Amy's mistake, though would they have even known at that point she made the mistake? It seems that Twilight would have assumed Amy did her spell right and it was Mr. Spike Glasses Dude who was wrong. Being a new, and curiously observant red shirt, he was offed.
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Post by buffyfan21 on Aug 12, 2009 14:28:15 GMT -5
I'm still struggling with why Willow was so distraught by seeing Oz and Bay's baby. Like she and Kennedy don't have a future because they cannot reproduce in the same manner a heterosexual couple can? Is this something homosexuals typically grieve over? Or is it speaking to Willow's state of mind in particular? I don't think it really has anything to do with Willow's sexuality. Same sex couples can and do have families all the time. I think Willow's jealousy stems from seeing that Oz is in a stable place in life, whereas Willow herself is not. In my opinion, she sees the loving relationship that Bay and Oz have, and realizes that she does not have the kind of future or stability with Kennedy. Oz and Bay seem happy and content, as opposed to Willow's relationship with Kennedy, which has been rocky at best. This is just speculation on my part, but perhaps Willow has finally opened her eyes to the fact that Kennedy isn't exactly settle down and start a family material. I think their relationship has just been a fling and a crutch for Willow. Nothing like what she and Tara had, or even what she and Oz had. Hopefully, Willow is finally realizing that if she stays with Kennedy, she will continue to sacrifice her greatest needs and wants in life.
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cutiepatootie
Common Vampire
lay waste to the world, and everything in it[Mo0:0]
Posts: 87
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Post by cutiepatootie on Aug 12, 2009 17:11:01 GMT -5
I'm still struggling with why Willow was so distraught by seeing Oz and Bay's baby. Like she and Kennedy don't have a future because they cannot reproduce in the same manner a heterosexual couple can? Is this something homosexuals typically grieve over? Or is it speaking to Willow's state of mind in particular? I kinda sympathise with Willow here....I get what she means that she'll never really have a kid and a family.
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Post by Rebecca on Aug 12, 2009 23:00:24 GMT -5
Yeah, I didn't want to stir up anything, it's just I'm hetero and wondering if GBLTs grieve that they can't reproduce the same way as heteros. I know they can have surrogate or adopted children, common knowledge there. Just a question She seemed way more distraught than I would be.
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cutiepatootie
Common Vampire
lay waste to the world, and everything in it[Mo0:0]
Posts: 87
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Post by cutiepatootie on Aug 13, 2009 5:26:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I didn't want to stir up anything, it's just I'm hetero and wondering if GBLTs grieve that they can't reproduce the same way as heteros. I know they can have surrogate or adopted children, common knowledge there. Just a question She seemed way more distraught than I would be. Ahaha no worries But yeah, I feel that if I do end up with a guy, there's a very small chance that I'll ever have kids...so I feel for Willow here. But then again, I don't think the writers intentionally made it so Willow is greiving over the baby because she's a lesbian, I think they just made it so she is jealous of the whole lifestyle Oz has now, the baby being the icing on the cake.
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Larissa
Innocent Bystander
Power: I have it, they don't
Every Slayer has a death wish...even you.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 14
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Post by Larissa on Aug 13, 2009 10:55:10 GMT -5
I was really suprised how settled down Oz is because no one else is. Lol
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Post by CowboyGuy on Aug 13, 2009 11:12:36 GMT -5
I was really suprised how settled down Oz is because no one else is. Lol It's actually a nice contrast and something that never really crossed my mind throughout the series. Sure, Buffy whined about wanting a normal life despite her slayerdom...but now we have Oz who actually left the group, went out and got what he wanted. Peace, and a solution to his lycanthropy. It's cool to see that characters can find happiness, even though Joss might end it now that we've gotten a glimpse haha. Also, I do sympathize with Willow...gay or straight, it pulls at your heart when an ex has more things going for him than you do. Not that Will is a total failure, but many terrible things have happened to her since Oz left the picture.
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darkwitch6869
Innocent Bystander
"I am a she-witch, a very powerful she-witch - or witch, as is more accurate. I am not to be trifled
Posts: 23
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Post by darkwitch6869 on Aug 13, 2009 19:38:43 GMT -5
I'm still struggling with why Willow was so distraught by seeing Oz and Bay's baby. Like she and Kennedy don't have a future because they cannot reproduce in the same manner a heterosexual couple can? Is this something homosexuals typically grieve over? Or is it speaking to Willow's state of mind in particular? I don't think it really has anything to do with Willow's sexuality. Same sex couples can and do have families all the time. I think Willow's jealousy stems from seeing that Oz is in a stable place in life, whereas Willow herself is not. In my opinion, she sees the loving relationship that Bay and Oz have, and realizes that she does not have the kind of future or stability with Kennedy. Oz and Bay seem happy and content, as opposed to Willow's relationship with Kennedy, which has been rocky at best. This is just speculation on my part, but perhaps Willow has finally opened her eyes to the fact that Kennedy isn't exactly settle down and start a family material. I think their relationship has just been a fling and a crutch for Willow. Nothing like what she and Tara had, or even what she and Oz had. Hopefully, Willow is finally realizing that if she stays with Kennedy, she will continue to sacrifice her greatest needs and wants in life. Amen that was awesomely said and well pointed out. I think its cause hes found someone he truely loves and he doesnt have to worry about her being killed because of his connection with Buffy. He has a family the thing she wanted with Tara ( When Buffy died her family was Dawn and Tara ) now buffys back and dawn has a sister-mom and tara is dead. Kennedy is just a girlfriend not a life partner like Tara was to her , a true soul mate. She mises it and what she had with tara she sees Oz has it and it just brings back all these bad memories.
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Post by wytchcroft on Aug 13, 2009 20:45:19 GMT -5
Emmie - doesn't this arc just completely win your argument for you regarding Giles dialogue in ish 24? In Retreat there's a vast improvement - and with a lot less words!
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Post by Emmie on Aug 13, 2009 20:53:35 GMT -5
Emmie - doesn't this arc just completely win your argument for you regarding Giles dialogue in ish 24? In Retreat there's a vast improvement - and with a lot less words! *high fives* then *karmas*
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Post by Jsebold87 on Aug 13, 2009 22:46:47 GMT -5
I kind of have mixed feelings on this issue. I don't really like that Oz has a kid, I'm not sure if we the fans were ready for that. I do think Oz deserves some happiness in his life, but it was a bit blunt to just have that in our faces right now. I don't know about you all, but I'm a Willow/Oz shipper, and I'm also a Willow/Tara shipper. I do have some feelings when it comes to Willow's sexuality. I don't believe Willow is 100% gay like they try to make her in the show. Them saying that just belittles her relationship with Oz, and the one she had with Xander for a brief time. I believe that Willow is bi, not completely gay.
Having said that, if she is supposedly completely gay, then what was her relationship with Oz? She loved him (and still loves him), I really think they are meant to be.
Another note on Willow's sexuality. I believe that Tara was the only girl for Willow, Tara was special, and I really don't think Willow could have fallen for any other girl at that time except for Tara. It was the person Willow fell in love with, it didn't matter that she was a girl. And having Willow go to Kennedy after Tara died was kinda a slap in the face considering Tara was supposed to be 'special' in Willow's eyes. I think the only person left for her after Tara died was Oz. No question in my mind about that.
Onto a new topic. I think Xander & Dawn are definitely going to get together. It's been a bit obvious in some of these last issues. That's pretty much the only thing I really liked about this issue, was their little bits.
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Post by wytchcroft on Aug 14, 2009 19:17:42 GMT -5
Emmie - thanks! and i karma-ed you up some too (belatedly). Jsebold87 - while i agree that everyone you mention has been, hell, IS important in Willow's life... i think you have outlined some of the potential limitations of shippage; characters have to be played down and marginalised (ie Kennedy*) and others kept in a fixed (and somewhat unlikely) space (oz). 'course in the fan fic universe, hell you can do what what you want! and have all kinds of whacky fun:) I think it's a mistake to put parameters on Wilow's sexuality while her character is still evolving... but WillowXander (IMHO?) was all about the discovering of a real and powerful filial love (e.g. Grave). Mistaking this for something else (in S3) was, well, ghastly. *and i am a big fan of tara and of oz too - but even so. It's like, Angel or Spike, i may prefer both of them over Riley - but i won't deny Riley his importance in the arc of Buffy's life.
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dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
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Post by dane5by5 on Aug 15, 2009 11:44:48 GMT -5
I thought this issue was a nice "catch up" issue with Oz, and although it didn't have the private Oz/Willow scene to tug at the heartstrings, I'm still holding out for a moment with just these two over the next three issues. Like others have noted, it's surprising that Willow was affected by seeing Oz's new life, and his child. Has Willow ever indicated any desire to have a family or child? Or was this just Willow's moment of realisation, that she has no opportunity to have any kind of future, other than fighting an ongoing war.
I thought the introduction of Bay and Kelden was handled well, although I found Bay quite similar in personality to Kennedy, and was not sure if this was intentional, this could be a source of tension between the two couples.
The pacing of this issue was skillful, considering it consisted of mostly exposition, this was indicative of Jane Espenson's improving grasp of writing for the medium.
The art was quite good, although the likeness was very hit and miss, which I've come to expect from Georges Jeanty.
There was only one page that felt wrong, in terms of writing, art and layout, which was page 8 with the flashback to 'New Moon Rising' then Oz returning to Tibet. The monologue was jarring and the art, Oz with a tale in his mouth was confusing and then Buffy musing "Just give in." felt slightly out of character.
All the scenes with Twilight were very interesting and Riley sounded perfect, it does appear like he was deliberately trying to steer them away from Tibet, so it would not be shocking if he was genuinely Buffy's "inside man". The story of how Oz and Bay met was a nice highlight of the issue, and the Monroe/warewolf subplot seems to have great potential.
This arc looks like it will play an important part in the overall story of Season Eight.
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