rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
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Post by rufio on Aug 5, 2009 12:17:59 GMT -5
omg oz has a baby! this means kelden is a werewolf as well, correct?
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Aug 5, 2009 13:34:34 GMT -5
Twilight knows buffy and spike...hmm.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Aug 5, 2009 14:15:42 GMT -5
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Aug 5, 2009 14:51:58 GMT -5
I know he didn't say it specificially. But when the guy with Glasses goes to Riley and says SPike and Riley has that reaction like he thought they were talking about the person not the rise in Magic. And then Twilight had the same reaction when the guy came to him. which would imply he knows of SPike if nothing else.
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fayth
Innocent Bystander
preparation, preparation, preparation[Mo0:16]
Posts: 32
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Post by fayth on Aug 5, 2009 14:58:39 GMT -5
Oz... baby... other woman...
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Post by hitnrun017 on Aug 5, 2009 15:25:42 GMT -5
Definitely a great issue, right on par with #26. There really isn't much to say because nothing extraordinary happens, but I enjoyed the slowed down pace, really got to see the characters interact more. It was nice catching up with Oz and those little moments between him and Willow were very bittersweet. Loved the Giles and the baby stuff, so hilarious. The best stuff came from Twilight and the other villians, loved that they finally played a big part in an issue. Jeanty's art was kind of hit and miss. There are some brilliant pages, and others that just fall VERY flat. So yeah, not a lot happened, but it was a nice change of pace.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Aug 5, 2009 16:38:49 GMT -5
I know he didn't say it specificially. But when the guy with Glasses goes to Riley and says SPike and Riley has that reaction like he thought they were talking about the person not the rise in Magic. And then Twilight had the same reaction when the guy came to him. which would imply he knows of SPike if nothing else. Ah, okay. I thought you meant he literally knows him, like "Hey, Spike!"/"Hey Twilight!" Yeah, the issue suggest he knows of him, definitely. I think anyone who is as aware of Buffy and what she's doing knows something of Spike. Riley's probably talked to him about the Spike situation too ahaha.
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Aug 5, 2009 16:52:54 GMT -5
The more it seems like we're getting closer to finding out who twilight is...the more we aren't lol.
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jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
Claimer of Funn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,174
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Post by jellymoff on Aug 5, 2009 16:58:15 GMT -5
That was an enjoyable issue, although I don't feel like we've gotten anywhere. That's the problem with comics I suppose, because you need issues like this to flesh things out a bit before jumping back in to the action. There can't be a big reveal every issue.
The writing flowed really well and I felt like I was watching the scoobies chatting it up again.
I'm curious about Twilight's other henchmen (like glasses guy) and how they connect to Riley. I'm trying to remember how much Riley and Warren interacted in the past. I don't think they ever met before, but I wonder what his thoughts about about their history together. He must know all that Warren did. So many questions....
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balesthebloody
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Angel's gettin' some! Good on you mate!"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 733
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Post by balesthebloody on Aug 5, 2009 17:00:08 GMT -5
This was a wonderful issue as others have said! I really loved the Oz back story! I think it was something we really need after his absence of four to five years! It was a surprise to see Willow so upset by Oz's new life, I didn't see that coming. It was also nice to see the big bads playing a larger role in an issue too. I hope that keeps happening.
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Post by Emmie on Aug 5, 2009 17:01:31 GMT -5
Don't be too curious about Glasses Guy - 'cause he's about to get axed if Twilight's orders are followed.
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 5, 2009 17:24:29 GMT -5
I really enjoyed this issue, a lot actually. It is rare to have an issue be completely dialogue driven (for the most part), and it really worked here. Oz's story was a great read and I am so happy we have finally gotten to his character again. It is nice that Oz found a life with Bay and his son, Keldan (who loves Giles, apparently).
Bay's werewolf form was HUGE. Definitely bigger than the wolves that attacked. Dawn and Xander were all over each other, once again. It's going to happen (I'm not against Dander happening, but I'd much, much prefer Bander).
Sadly, the Scoobies have brought a lot of attention to Tibet, and I doubt Oz's family will be intact for much longer (later Bay). The Twilight stuff in this issue was great. The "Spike?" from Riley and Twilight was excellent, as was Amy and Warren's further bickering. The guy in the glasses that discovered the spike brought up an interesting point. Twilight is trying to end magic, yet he is relying on magic to track Buffy through his alliance with Amy. Twilight is also most likely using magic himself (strength/flight), since he is someone we know, and no one that we know can do what he does.
I think it is pretty much official now that Riley is a triple agent. He is clearly helping the Scoobies in this issue by being outspoken about how skeptical he is about the spike and Buffy's location.
Just look at these lines, all revolving around his distrust of the spike:
Riley: Looks like random noise to me.
Riley: Yeah, see, mountains make the signals bounce around. I wouldn't--
Riley: It's an artifact. It's not real.
Riley: She's looking for the source of your spike... (Making the spike a property of sorts of Glasses Guy, and setting him up incase the locator spell fails, which is exactly what happens)
Riley: I don't see anything.
Riley: I told you. There's interference. There just isn't enough data to be this precise.
Essentially, Riley helped eliminate Glasses Guy, who was more or less right throughout the entire issue. Riley showed doubt throughout, and got Twilight on his side in the end, which results in Glasses Guy's death.
So yeah...triple agent. ;D
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jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
Claimer of Funn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,174
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Post by jellymoff on Aug 5, 2009 17:36:20 GMT -5
omg oz has a baby! this means kelden is a werewolf as well, correct? I don't know if it works that way, as far as I can remember this has not been addressed. It seems logical because if you get bitten by a wolf you become one (saliva getting in to your blood stream), so it would make sense that if you share blood or DNA then you would be a wolf too. Then again, if it was that easy you would think Willow would have been turned since they swapped spit and also had sex. This makes me go hmmmmmm......
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Aug 5, 2009 17:49:41 GMT -5
Maybe willow and oz used hefty sized condoms lol.
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Post by wenxina on Aug 5, 2009 18:01:20 GMT -5
Part 2 of Jane Espenson's "Retreat" arc... pretty much what most second books in each arc is like: exposition. Nothing much really happens, beyond exposition and some build-up for the later parts of the arc, as well as the season. A few character moments here and there, but they're quiet small ones, not like the jeans of a Hannah Montana pre-teen with a Bedazzler.
Art: Fundamentally, this issue is all exposition, and this is true, even right down to the art. There are few close-ups of character faces, and those close-ups are usually of the secondary characters. Oz gets the most mug time, and Jeanty's pencils are pretty hit-or-miss here. There are panels where he nails the Oz-isms, but then you'll get the faraway shots that look like Andrew's been subbed in. Perhaps it's good that Oz and Andrew don't share face-time in this issue; the latter gets written off as the "womanly man" who's being made comfortable. Back to the point at hand: Most panels are busy, the curse of a large ensemble cast. There's just no way to detail everyone's faces to the liking of some fans, and Jeanty does his best by playing with perspective; characters closer get more detail than the ones set farther back. One note: Bay does bear a striking resemblance to Dichen Lachman... most panels of her are less detailed, but the one close-up of her smiling while narrating how she introduced Oz to the Bon religion is spot on.
Landscapes are amazing, and the detail is quite astounding. Madsen's colors add life to every page, reserving a warmer more vibrant palette for the Tibetan scenes, a sepia-tinged wash for the flashbacks, as well as a colder color scheme for the villains. Why she succeeds so well is because the colors don't fight for dominance with the pencils, but rather enhance them. Instead of aiming for photo-realism with the colors, Madsen's style meshes very well with Jeanty's more cartoony style, and results in what I find to be a more harmonious union.
Writing: The pace has slowed down some from the last issue, but Espenson keeps us moving along without too much slack. My only criticism of the writing is the placement of the scene where the guy points out the "spike". It's a single page, and it just broke the pace of Oz's exposition, since right after it, Oz continues. IMO, the scene in question should have been allowed to continue from the opening sequence, without losing any momentum. Since the scene ends with Twilight commanding the guy to "Pinpoint the location", opening the next scene with the location tag is still appropriate.
Other than that, Espenson's script delivers the funny without sacrificing plot. The introduction of Oz's baby was hilarious. Side note: The dog is extremely cute! Also, she manages to translate Oz's usually more taciturn character to page not so much by limiting his words (well, he's telling the story...) but by having Oz tell the story the way Oz would. Laid-back and unfazed, even when Giles is constantly pushing him to get to the point. And speaking of Oz, the Oz/Willow exchange was nicely handled, despite the space constraints, and the dialogue is about as Oz/Willow-ish as can be.
Couple of other things to note. 1. Twilight again references how well he knows Buffy. 2. While this is mere speculation, Riley seemed to play down the "spike". Trying to protect Buffy and Co. or genuine skepticism? Hmm... 3. Twilight's motives are actually called into question by "spike" guy when says "I don't like this. If we're against magic, it seems so wrong..." in response to Amy's bone-casting-magic-locating spell. 4. Speaking of "magic", anyone else notice the inconsistency of the spelling of the damn word? It's spelled "magic" in the little blurb on the inside of the front cover too. EDIT: It was spelled "magick" in #26. 5. Willow is apparently powerful enough to mask a HUGE spell with another spell... just as Buffy predicted in the previous issue.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 5, 2009 18:44:12 GMT -5
First thoughts, based on my initial read-through...
1. I was actually quite relieved by the Twilight stuff in this issue (I probably shouldn't be) because it clearly proves that Twilight is NOT Giles or Oz. (At least, not the versions we know).
He was acting far more super-villainy here than we've seen before, actually ordering minions executed for making mistakes.
I'm not sure what he meant by this comment:
AMY: "It's like looking for specific fleas on an infested dog."
TWILIGHT: "Find them before I decide it's easier to search a dead dog."
What the hell? Is he claiming the power to kill the whole world? And the willingness to do so? Seems kind of silly and melodramatic to me.
His arrogance and self-important manner would work well for Ethan, but he seems to be claiming to know Buffy better than Ethan would. Harth Fray might be more likely... he's got the personality, and he'd know Buffy pretty well through the Slayer dreams.
2. Yeah, Dawn and Xander are an item. Obvious now.
3. Is Willow saying she doesn't think she has a life or a future with Kennedy?
4. I think a Werewolf War raging through the hills of Tibet is the coolest thing ever.
5. Is Oz's son The Prince?
6. Yes, I think Riley's subtle misdirection of Twilight and Glasses Guy are evidence that he's working for Buffy. Also, he looks about 12 years old in this issue.
7. I think it's more evident than ever that Twilight has no intention of ending magic. Notice how the one guy to question his hypocritical use of magic is about to get offed at his orders?
8. During Oz's speech on the last page about suppressing magic, Faith and Willow looked distinctly unhappy.
9. Whoever the "Raki" is who wrote in to the lettercolumn needs a good hard smack.
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Post by CowboyGuy on Aug 5, 2009 18:58:34 GMT -5
First thoughts, based on my initial read-through... 1. I was actually quite relieved by the Twilight stuff in this issue (I probably shouldn't be) because it clearly proves that Twilight is NOT Giles or Oz. (At least, not the versions we know). He was acting far more super-villainy here than we've seen before, actually ordering minions executed for making mistakes. I'm not sure what he meant by this comment: AMY: "It's like looking for specific fleas on an infested dog." TWILIGHT: "Find them before I decide it's easier to search a dead dog." What the hell? Is he claiming the power to kill the whole world? And the willingness to do so? Seems kind of silly and melodramatic to me. His arrogance and self-important manner would work well for Ethan, but he seems to be claiming to know Buffy better than Ethan would. Harth Fray might be more likely... he's got the personality, and he'd know Buffy pretty well through the Slayer dreams. 2. Yeah, Dawn and Xander are an item. Obvious now. 3. Is Willow saying she doesn't think she has a life or a future with Kennedy? 4. I think a Werewolf War raging through the hills of Tibet is the coolest thing ever. 5. Is Oz's son The Prince? 6. Yes, I think Riley's subtle misdirection of Twilight and Glasses Guy are evidence that he's working for Buffy. Also, he looks about 12 years old in this issue. 7. I think it's more evident than ever that Twilight has no intention of ending magic. Notice how the one guy to question his hypocritical use of magic is about to get offed at his orders? 8. During Oz's speech on the last page about suppressing magic, Faith and Willow looked distinctly unhappy. 9. Whoever the "Raki" is who wrote in to the lettercolumn needs a good hard smack. Aw Crossett...I always seem to agree with every single thing you say. I loved this issue, very much. I like exposition...seems like I'm watching the show when we get these issues. I agree with all things said, especially the part about Riley being a triple agent! Maybe that's why Buffy has been keeping this secret from the group, she doesn't know who to trust. So she says nothing to anyone. He did look about 12 as well haha! Hmm interesting note about Faith and Willow not looking too happy. One last thing is that although the cast is big, I am so happy to see everyone here again. Oz, Faith and Giles were sorely missed in my opinion. Feels alot more balanced now. I can't wait to see what happens next, my mind is racing!!
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Aug 5, 2009 19:10:50 GMT -5
I like the harth fray thought but didn't twilight fight buffy in visible sunlight in "Anywhere but here"? unless i am wrong or if his suit is Necrotempered like the glass at wolfram and hart.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 5, 2009 21:29:03 GMT -5
I like the harth fray thought but didn't twilight fight buffy in visible sunlight in "Anywhere but here"? unless i am wrong or if his suit is Necrotempered like the glass at wolfram and hart. Yes... one of my earliest suspicions (back when I thought Twilight might be Angel or Spike) was that the suit and mask act as a protection against sunlight. It might also provide his super strength and ability to fly. Just more reasons why there's no way Twilight wants to get rid of magic.
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Post by wenxina on Aug 5, 2009 21:36:10 GMT -5
Just more reasons why there's no way Twilight wants to get rid of magic. And it's finally called out in an issue. Too bad the guy doesn't stick around...
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