darthrosenberg9
Potential Slayer
"You haven?t seen my drawer of inappropriate starches?"[Mo0:37]
Posts: 107
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Post by darthrosenberg9 on Nov 4, 2009 14:12:57 GMT -5
Woah. I gotta say, I've read it twice and I'm STILL not sure what happens on the last panel. Did Buffy become a Goddess-sized giant? Or did she fall from the cliff she was on? Scott Allie refers to her in the Slay the Critics as "a really super-powered Buffy the Vampire Slayer".........so my vote is for Giantess? And I suppose now we have some reasoning behind Dawn's gigantism/giantism earlier this season? So strange. And I guess we finally get our answer about Riley. It was sort of a letdown, to be honest.....but at least it's settled. I was tired of having SO MANY mysteries unsolved and questions unanswered. It's issue freakin' thirty! I'm happy to see some resolution to this and to the Dawn storyline. And it looks like Bay and Riley will both survive.....but that lots of others won't. I'm thinking this battle was a huge downsize for the slayer army. "The devastation of the slayer army in this issue....because we finally realized that the ginormous cast was making it hard to adequately focus on the central characters." I guess it's sort of weird that I quote Scott Allie since he reads these threads. Sorry if it's weird, Scott! Here's hoping there's a lot of answers in the WILLOW one-shot.....
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Post by xavierzane on Nov 4, 2009 14:23:10 GMT -5
Idon't think she's a giant. I believe she's floating.
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Post by Wyndam on Nov 4, 2009 14:28:18 GMT -5
You guys don't need to use spoiler tags on the day the issue comes out. I just finished reading it but I have to mow the grass so I will have to post my thoughts later.
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darthrosenberg9
Potential Slayer
"You haven?t seen my drawer of inappropriate starches?"[Mo0:37]
Posts: 107
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Post by darthrosenberg9 on Nov 4, 2009 14:30:58 GMT -5
She could be floating. That makes more sense.....but how would she get that high above the temple so fast.....and aren't there MUCH better angles to show us any of these possibilties.......so we wouldn't have to all be questioning it?
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Post by Wyndam on Nov 4, 2009 14:41:35 GMT -5
I thought they made it pretty clear that she was floating up above the temple. She was in the snow, she closed her eyes, and in that time something caused her to float up into the air. I have a feeling Twilight is doing it, but we'll see. Kind of bummed they ended on a cliffhanger that we have to wait two months to see resolved, when the other arcs has had an ending. This isn't Season 2 of Lost.
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Sky
Innocent Bystander
Slayer[Mo0:15]
Posts: 17
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Post by Sky on Nov 4, 2009 15:54:05 GMT -5
Overall I've been disappointed by this arc. I like the plot point of them becoming human but it still feels like nothing was at stake or as dramatic as it was made out to be at SDCC. Despite her and Xander's hug and Xander still looking at her even after it was over she seemed pretty affectionate to Riley. I hope we get an explanation of Sam's whereabouts, alive or dead.
I think since the goddesses were powered up by slayer power when one picked up Buffy part of the power went back to her. At least way more than what a slayer has. Like when Willow was able to channel her power through Buffy at the end of TLWH AND AWBH. With her doing Willow's flying thing now it kind of also got me thinking of what would have happened if Buffy has accepted the Shadow Men's offer of more power back in S7.
If she can fly now she may have just enough power to stand against Twilight.
Even with the surprise ending and Jeanty's vastly improved pencils I still didn't like the arc. Hopefully the Willow one shot in December and issue 31 in January will pull me back in.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 4, 2009 16:24:00 GMT -5
Here's my guess: when Buffy physically touched one of the goddesses, her powers flowed back into her... along with some she didn't have (or couldn't unlock) before.
That's how she survived that long fall when the goddess dropped her (without serious injuries) and that's how she's flying.
She's now a Super Deluxe Slayer. Which may be what she needs to win the final battle.
I was struck by how... mortal Twilight seemed in this issue. He seemed genuinely taken aback by how things went, and that Riley wasn't loyal to him. Did you see how Amy casually pushed him away while she was arguing with Warren... and he just turned and walked away?
So the Slayers and Scoobies are now all/mostly prisoners, and it'll be up to Buffy to do something about that.
I wonder what Bay meant by "They shouldn't have come here... we gave them everything." That statement can have very different implications depending on whether she was referring to the Slayers, the goddesses, or Twilight and his men.
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barryshaft
Novice Witch
Sometimes I shouldn't say words...[Mo0:0]
Posts: 224
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Post by barryshaft on Nov 4, 2009 16:53:13 GMT -5
I sort of got the impression that Buffy was having an out of body experience. The art in the last few pages was just so sloppily done. I really don't think a cliffhanger can be justified as such just because the art is bad but here we are.
The issue was alright. It started out with some really great character moments. I especially liked how Buffy's first thoughts went straight to Xander. Kind of furthers her recent feelings for him. And Dawn's slight jealousy at the shared moment between Buffy and Xander was a nice touch as well. Other than that... meh. Espenson is really an awful comic book writer and this arc has easily been the worst of the series. It's just way too big and cartoony now and barely focuses on the characters anymore. Oz's return has been handled with little care, as was Riley's. None of us really believed he had turned over, but couldn't we have gotten some semblance of doubt installed in us? Hell, his reveal was over a year ago and he's probably been in five panels since then. I just don't really see any emotional attachment to anything going on at this point, hell it's been so long since the Twilight reveal has sparked any interest in me. They've kept it a secret for so long that I can hardly see how they've got enough left to actually flesh him out as a character once he's revealed (especially since it's still several issues away).
Jeanty's art has taken a serious slide since his return after Time of Your Life... But I felt he really stepped up his game again in this issue. For the most part the characters were drawn well, the action very nicely realized and the emotions where they needed to be. Until the last few pages of course when it's possible even he didn't have a clue what he was supposed to be drawing.
I don't really know what to make of this arc, let alone this issue. Why Espenson needed five issues to tell this story when all of the other arcs have received five I'm not exactly sure. I figured with the extra issue #30 would have at least added some meat to the story but now I don't know. And if the last few panels turn out to be "Buffy has new powers!", "Buffy's a giant!/Can Fly/Is a Goddess" I think for the first time ever I may be officially out of here.
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Post by vampiresaiyan on Nov 4, 2009 17:21:45 GMT -5
I think it was just that buffy was flying and if that's so without trying to guess at stuff I mean who else do we know that can fly and has super strength coughtwilightcough. Maybe she is closer related to twilight then we think...
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Nov 4, 2009 18:03:39 GMT -5
I am just so not sure what to make of this development.
I thought the issue was alright up until the last couple of pages. Then we proceeded into "what-the-frak" territory.
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Nov 4, 2009 18:18:48 GMT -5
Its probably not this but i thought it might be astral projection. Like an out of body experience but since we see her body go up in the air..sort of the astral thing would only work if in josses one shot he shows her astral form floating away from her body.
I think in terms of what we've seen in this arc so far this was the best possible ending, maybe not in general but just in terms of the issues prior to it. I do agree with most tho the overall arc could have been handled better but it definetly wasnt a complete failure.
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jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
Claimer of Funn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,174
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Post by jellymoff on Nov 4, 2009 18:56:28 GMT -5
This issue was OK, but I was not in love with the ending, for sure. I feel like nothing was really resolved, and this arc does not feel over at all. I guess every season there is a time when things get super bad right before the gang has to save the day. This must be that time.
I'm guessing, as other people have said, that when Buffy touched the goddess she got her powers back. It could be possible that she also has the powers of others like Willow, hence the ability to levitate.
It looks like Buffy will have to save the day by herself, which could set us up to go back to the days similar to season 1, when Buffy was the only one with power. Perhaps that's where Season 9 will take us; back to basics.
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Post by Emmie on Nov 4, 2009 18:56:48 GMT -5
I believe it was Buffy flying and it's absolutely brilliant. Because Buffy's eventual ability to fly has been foreshadowed by Whedon this entire season. First, when she flies with Willow in Anywhere But Here and is too afraid to open her eyes. Next with Twilight in A Beautiful Sunset where she grits her teeth, bearing it because she must. Then we have her jumping off of flying cars in Time of Your Life. It's moments like these where I'm struck with why I love Whedon so much. Because it was all right there, laid out in front of us - the story had been building up to this point for a long time, but it still came as a complete shock to me.
And yes, I do believe this is part of how Buffy will be able to face Twilight. And it's such an awesome metaphor that only in giving away power, can one truly know power. It's like that saying, if you love someone, set them free. If they return to you, then your love is true. You cannot be caged by your love or your power - through being open, you can be connected to true power.
There were definitely some iffy moments in this issue, but the ending is so gobsmackingly brilliant in how it was laid out that I don't care. It's moments like this where Whedon just reminds me "This - this is why I love Buffy."
There's a thread of transitive power underneath this entire season and I'm only now just understanding how to tease it out. That perhaps the message after you've been given power isn't that you clutch at it so tightly (that you steal for it, you kill for it, you destroy worlds for it), but that you set it free so it may choose to return to you. If it's truly yours, it will return to you.
And isn't that very Tibetan-style - only in letting go of everything can you truly know yourself and fully actualize.
Hughes cover makes so much sense to me now. When Buffy was Chosen, Excalibur was forced into her hand. It was a burden to carry the sword or in Buffy's case, the shining stake. But in Retreat, after an entire season of robbing, cheating, stealing and killing to keep her power, in finally learning to let it go she takes an even firmer hold on what's truly hers.
This is just really beautiful to me. There are some technical moments in the issue that I find were poorly executed, but as is always the case with Buffy - the meaning has just blown me away. Wow.
Excalibur, indeed.
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Post by Wyndam on Nov 4, 2009 19:23:01 GMT -5
The issue overall was an improvement over #29 (which got worse upon re-reads, but was still OK), and overall I really enjoyed this arc. Buffy checking to make sure Xander was okay was just awesome. Buffy developing feelings for Xander is by far my favorite development so far in Season 8 and I am glad each issue since #27 has touched on this development a bit. I can't wait to see it explored even further.
I agree with Emmie, I'm all for this new development. It's going to be controversial (people have already been iffy about Willow flying all season), Scott knew that ahead of time, and I was definitely surprised when I got to that last page. Upon first reading it I thought she was just floating, but the panels before the reveal in the end clearly show the "flying" motion pretty well, although I can understand the confusement.
I am excited to see where the story goes next. Everyone has been captured by Twilight's army, and Buffy is out on her own with new, untested abilities.
The cover from Hughes is even more perfect in person, it's probably my favorite cover yet.
Like I mentioned earlier, I don't want to wait two months to catch up with Buffy again, but I understand why it's happening.
Also, I hope the final fight between Buffy and Twilight doesn't turn into the final fight from Matrix Revolutions where Neo and Smith are flying around like maniacs, but we'll see how it plays out.
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Post by Emmie on Nov 4, 2009 19:44:20 GMT -5
I've also gotta say that this new power is something I'm not sure will be unwelcome or perhaps gladly received. Buffy's been saying this arc how she's tired of standing over people. Well, now she's flying over them. It's an ever greater price to pay for great power, the disconnect between her and humanity. I initially thought Buffy would hate flying, but we've seen her gradually building up to it. And in the circumstances she hated, it was her clutching for dear life to Willow. And also another instance of her flying was as a fish at the beginning of Retreat. Flying in past was shown to leave her as a helpless pawn. Now, instead of her in another's power, she has her own power returned. And this gives Buffy something she's always wanted - freedom. That's what flying symbolizes to me. Physical strength symbolizes to me power. But flying has always seemed to strongly represent freedom. And this is what Buffy's wanted ever since her character was first introduced. Buffy enjoys having power, but she's always wanted freedom. Being able to fly is perhaps a way for her to have a more balanced give and take with her powers. Because while flying does involve distance, there's also the joy of this perspective and the freedom and thrill of it. And wow, if anyone here has been reading "Thought You Should Know," I actually [url=I've also gotta say that this new power is something I'm not sure will be unwelcome or perhaps gladly received. Buffy's been saying this arc how she's tired of standing over people. Well, now she's flying over them. It's an ever greater price to pay for great power, the disconnect between her and humanity. I initially thought Buffy would hate flying, but we've seen her gradually building up to it. And in the circumstances she hated, it was her clutching for dear life to Willow. And also another instance of her flying was as a fish at the beginning of Retreat. Flying in past was shown to leave her as a helpless pawn. Now, instead of her in another's power, she has her own power returned. And this gives Buffy something she's always wanted - freedom. That's what flying symbolizes to me. Physical strength symbolizes to me power. But flying has always seemed to strongly represent freedom. And this is what Buffy's wanted ever since her character was first introduced. Buffy enjoys having power, but she's always wanted freedom. Being able to fly is perhaps a way for her to have a more balanced give and take with her powers. Because while flying does involve distance, there's also the joy of this perspective and the freedom and thrill of it. And wow, if anyone here has been reading "Thought You Should Know," I actually wrote a chapter[/u][/url] that has Buffy musing about flying and how she's both loved it and hated it depending on her emotional state at the time.
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Post by CowboyGuy on Nov 4, 2009 20:04:19 GMT -5
Buffy is Superman.
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Post by Emmie on Nov 4, 2009 20:07:52 GMT -5
Just wanted to remind everyone that the Scott Allie Q&A is open and the first few questions have already been answered!
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Post by hitnrun017 on Nov 4, 2009 21:42:37 GMT -5
I actually really enjoyed this issue a lot more than I was expecting. The first pages were pretty shaky on the battlefield, but as soon as the battle halted, we got some great character moments, art, story developments and questions.
Loved the quick part between Buffy and Xander. It sealed the fact that they still deeply care about each other and are great friends, but is it something more? Happy we finally got some Riley development, and that he was working with Buffy the whole time, that would be so anti-Riley if he wasn't. The page between those two was amazing. Buffy's speech at the end was great, shows that they are still the good guys, and makes all the death in #29 seem a little less out of character. Yay for a confusing ending! So cool that we don't know exactly what is it happening and makes us question, that hasn't happened enough.
Overall, I thought Retreat was a good arc, but pretty disappointing as to what I was expecting. For five issues, it felt rushed. Not enough time focused on the conflict or story, but got some great character development. And Emmie, thanks for pointing out the whole Buffy flying thing, that is pretty extraordinary.
Oh, and actually holding Hughes' cover sealed the deal, it's my favorite Season 8 cover.
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Post by krazyxxxdj on Nov 5, 2009 2:17:01 GMT -5
Wow - i actually got this on THE day it came out - which is not the norm here.
The ending WAS a WTH moment, but I don't understand why it would make any of us "really freaked out and angry".... more confused than anything.
My take of it was that Buffy fell into this Goddess's hand, and it picked her up -- Buffy was scared it was going to EAT her, but it had actually picked her up for a reason -- knowing that she was the original slayer and the reason behind ALL the power (Buffy's and the other slayers'). So it actually DID know who had fed it, and dumped ALL of the slayer power into Buffy. Not just Buffy's, but ALL of it. So now we have UBER Buffy.
UBER Buffy has so much power that -- just by pointing her head up-- she lifted herself up and flew without even knowing it.
That's just my take of it, I'm probably wrong.
I don't really know how I like this change yet -- half of me is going "well that's cool" and the other half is going "this is getting silly".
But it should definitely put her on par with Twilight now.
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emanuele
Common Vampire
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 57
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Post by emanuele on Nov 5, 2009 3:21:53 GMT -5
Nah, UBER Buffy was in Primeval, now it's Super Uber Buffy, or Buffy 9000 or Dragonball Z Buffy
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