|
Post by angeliclestat on Oct 27, 2009 16:31:33 GMT -5
Here we are at the 10th Anniversary of Angel - a great milestone. And its great to know that there will continue to be more stories told in the Angelverse!
So we know that we have -the Willingham run going on to at least issue 34 - the Hole in the World/Shells adap - 2 more Angelus stories by John Byrne - the Spike ongoing from Brian Lynch
So what are your hopes for 2010?What would you like to see more of, and what do you think will happen?
|
|
Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
|
Post by Hallow Thorn on Oct 27, 2009 17:36:27 GMT -5
I would love more adaptations of landmark episodes. "You're Welcome", "I Will Remember You", "Hero", Lullaby, "Birthday", "Waiting in the Wings" and "Power Play". Joss Whedon and/or David Greenwalt 'back' writing an arc or so, to make it you know .. more excepted Can-- as well as actors like with the Drusilla arc. premium1.uploadit.org/Flipsidephilly/emotes/nods.gif[/IMG] Angel set in the future with old age Connor and Gunn. Also the Resurrection/ ‘fall from grace’ of Cordelia chase. obsession I know....
|
|
jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
Claimer of Funn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,174
|
Post by jellymoff on Oct 27, 2009 18:47:13 GMT -5
Dare I say I am almost "Angeled Out" after 2009? Don't get me wrong, I love what IDW has done, and couldn't be happier that Angel is back in action. I just think there's been a few too many releases, and we are almost oversaturated. I hope that IDW really focuses on the main titles "Spike" and "Angel" while keeping the episode adaptations and mini-series to a minimum.
|
|
|
Post by hitnrun017 on Oct 27, 2009 19:11:11 GMT -5
Dare I say I am almost "Angeled Out" after 2009? Don't get me wrong, I love what IDW has done, and couldn't be happier that Angel is back in action. I just think there's been a few too many releases, and we are almost oversaturated. I hope that IDW really focuses on the main titles "Spike" and "Angel" while keeping the episode adaptations and mini-series to a minimum. This. I mean, they can keep doing the episode adaptations (why?) and John Byrne specials, those have no effect on the overall story and aren't required reading. But I'd rather them stop with the mini-series like Spike: AtF and Only Human. I know most readers love those, but for me it's just too much and the quality has slipped because of it. Focus on the two main stories and the main characters, and keep them together. Less about the money, and more about the story and quality please.
|
|
Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
|
Post by Hallow Thorn on Oct 27, 2009 19:25:08 GMT -5
I am with you about stopping the mini-series, I think that Only Human could have been part of the main title if they just had Angel and Connor part of it.
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Oct 27, 2009 19:46:35 GMT -5
Dare I say I am almost "Angeled Out" after 2009? Don't get me wrong, I love what IDW has done, and couldn't be happier that Angel is back in action. I just think there's been a few too many releases, and we are almost oversaturated. I hope that IDW really focuses on the main titles "Spike" and "Angel" while keeping the episode adaptations and mini-series to a minimum. Yes. I mean, they can keep doing the episode adaptations (why?) and John Byrne specials, those have no effect on the overall story and aren't required reading. But I'd rather them stop with the mini-series like Spike: AtF and Only Human. I know most readers love those, but for me it's just too much and the quality has slipped because of it. Focus on the two main stories and the main characters, and keep them together.
Less about the money, and more about the story and quality please. Yes. I've felt this way for a long time, only more that I was anticipating this when they kept announcing all this off-shoot stories. I again think this is the problem with not having one strong voice guiding this development. Whedon kinda held it together as the Papa Bear during After the Fall, but even then we had mini-series offshoots happening. Ever since Whedon's name has faded away (Not Fade Away, Whedon!), the spiralling of stories has only gotten worse. It just reinforces my belief that we're not doing canon here. Because there's no way that all these writers are coordinating their works together. Just like the flub with Armstrong not knowing the end of After the Fall and having Gunn in a car driving around - there's no way to keep the canon continuous with so many coinciding projects and frankly, I don't expect that much quality when they're throwing so much quantity at us.
|
|
|
Post by Wyndam on Oct 27, 2009 20:20:26 GMT -5
2009 was overall, quite fantastic. 5 craptastic months thanks to Aftermath, but the rest has been filled with everything I want from IDW: Great stories, writing and art. And the final 2 months of the year will bring us our final issues from Brian and Stephen (and according to Stephen, the best book he's ever worked on), and the start of Willingham's run. I just finished reading the first ten issues of Fables, and I am ecstatic about what Bill will bring to my favorite 'verse. As for the other stuff, if you don't want it, don't buy it. IDW will stop giving us more content if the sales drop. IDW isn't just doing this for the money, although they are a business and criticizing them for making money seems a bit extreme, especially when we have only gotten 5 truly horrible issues. Plus everyone that works on an Angel book is a fan of the series or Buffyverse. We haven't gotten a single Joe Schmoe that knew nothing about the series (Dave Ross maybe, but again, Aftermath). Only Human shoehorned into the main series would have been disastrous, and thanks to it being a mini-series with its own creative team, the quality has generally been good and well received. I doubt we will see any mini-series in 2010 though. We'll just have Angel and Spike, Bill and Brian, Denham and Urru. I couldn't be more optimistic and excited about what's coming.
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Oct 27, 2009 21:07:02 GMT -5
As for the other stuff, if you don't want it, don't buy it. IDW will stop giving us more content if the sales drop. IDW isn't just doing this for the money, although they are a business and criticizing them for making money seems a bit extreme, especially when we have only gotten 5 truly horrible issues. While I agree that criticizing IDW for running a business seems a tad harsh, criticizing IDW for the lack of direction is legitimate. It's not so much the 5 horrible issues from the arc that shall not be named, rather just the sheer stagnancy of the franchise since "AtF". Just about every book that has come out since then feels the need to keep going back to "AtF". Instead of stepping forward, we keep stepping backwards. While this might be a wee bit unfair, I have mused that it kinda seems like IDW keeps going back to the moment (literally) that they had Joss' involvement, and were able to flaunt the "canon" card. I'm going to attempt a quick rundown of what's happened since "AtF": 1. The epilogue after the epilogue to patch-up a continuity error. Which brings us to... 2. The Gunn/Illyria spin-off that pretty much spun out of said epilogue after the epilogue. 3. The arc that shall not be named. 4. A two-parter that sends us back to the events surrounding "AtF". 5. The whole Angel at a Con deal, which again pretty much goes right back to the events "AtF". *Note that I've not counted Byrne's "Blood and Trenches", or any of the episode adaptations. Other than #3, everything else seems to be mired in "AtF"-ness (and even then, I'm under the impression that #3 didn't really do that much, which I guess was expected, since the writer herself prefaced her work by telling fans to not expect anything much... which I find utterly ridiculous, since it's essentially saying that she was just brought on-board to buy time before the real talent steps in). I enjoyed "AtF", but I also want to see the franchise move on beyond that one shining moment. Self-reference isn't bad, that's not the argument I'm making. I'm arguing that it all just seems overly indulgent at the moment, and I think the whole "fans making things for fans" argument is a double-edged sword here. While it's true that fans may understand what it is that fans like, they may not be the best judges in terms of what the franchise needs. I would contend that is the case here. Streamlining and focus shouldn't have to be bought by a boycott. The story should always come first. Otherwise, be prepared for criticism.
|
|
|
Post by AndrewCrossett on Oct 27, 2009 21:55:08 GMT -5
I'd like to see the franchise focused down to the two main titles... the Angel ongoing and the Spike ongoing. Like what Willingham already does with "Fables" and "Jack of Fables." There could be the occasional one-shot special, and as much crossover between the two titles as desired... but they can leave off with the episode adaptations and the increasingly bizarre miniseries.
|
|
Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
|
Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Oct 27, 2009 22:27:02 GMT -5
Minus the criticisms of Only Human, I'm on board with what's been said here so far. I do hope Willingham sticks around for a while and builds a good story for us to read; it sounds like he already has, what with the Eddie Hope back-up stories (which is just more excuses for me to fanboy over David Messina anyway ) and his plan to eventually incorporate the character into the series proper at some undisclosed point. I do hope there are more good character arcs in store for Gunn and Illyria; I've really fallen in love with Gunn after the events of AtF, he's grown so much since Season Five of the show. And as long as they can avoid gruesomely destroying the character of Fred, I think Illyria can develop as a unique character, separate from the whole "this is Fred's body and these are her memories" thing. Only Human is just a taste of the types of stories we can wring out of her. Finally, I hope the Spike stories are good. He's not my favorite character in the 'verse, but he's a damn good character; it'd be a shame if he finally got his own comic book and it sucked. (Yes, I'm pressuring you Brian Lynch - feel the heat yet? )
|
|
|
Post by kaleidoscope on Oct 28, 2009 3:57:32 GMT -5
I think that 2010 is going to be a great year for the Angel franchise.
I'm looking forward to Bill Willingham's take on the remaining Angelverse characters. My main hope is that he can rebuild a team dynamic. I know we can't replace Fred, Cordy and Wes - they were all too wonderful, but I'd certainly like to start missing them a little less.
I'm really looking forward to Brian's Spike series. I re-read his Spike stories quite a bit and I'm of the opinion that he's one of the best writers we've ever had for Spike along with Joss and Jane. I love his take on Spike as a lead character and especially enjoy the inner narration/thoughts he gives to Spike which show his deep understanding of the character. I'm pleased that he's including story elements that would have been used in the Spike dvd movie.I'm glad that the ideas that Joss and Tim had for it haven't been completely lost in the ether and will be used here.
John Byrne's Angel tales from the past are likewise an enjoyable addtion to the Franchise and I shall look forward to those.
|
|
|
Post by angeliclestat on Oct 28, 2009 7:05:29 GMT -5
I understand why some people have problems with the additional mini-series and episode adaptations. But I don't:)
The adaptations are great fun, and I really cannot understand why people criticise them. Some people seem to actually get angry about them ...which really baffles me. They don't affect the main story line...and it seems that the only problem that people have with them is that they think IDW are trying to milk money from the fans. But what is forgotton is that IDW has paid for the rights to use the episodes, have to pay a writer to adapt them, pay an artist to draw them and pay printers to print them. So the same costs come into it, so it's not as if they make any more money from the adaptations as opposed to the normal monthly comics.
As for the mini-series spinoffs. I remember when a lot of the Buffy/Angel fans first started with Season 8 and After the Fall a lot were not regular comic book readers (myself included). They found it hard to adjust from a 40minute episode a week to a 22 page comic a month. "Not enough!" they cried! And now that IDW is giving more Angel stories every month some people are crying 'Too much!'. You can't please everyone:)
And as for the story still revolving round the events of AtF...well ya! It was a huge event. If IDW just carried on and ignored it people wouild be complaining too. Angel is famous now - it has to be dealt with, al the changes to our characters have to be referenced and worked through. And what Angel did best as a show was to really give a sense of continuity. What happened 24 episodes ago, will come up again and if you don't remember it then you gotta do your homework. Thngs like Skip being introduced in episode 2 of Season 3. When he pops up again in episode 17 of season 4....ya gotta know where he was coming from.
So for me I love being able to buy multiple Angel comics every month. So far the continuity has been in check (yes the odd one gets by....but that never happened on the show?) and the story has built up really well. I havn't liked everything that has been done so far - not a total PollyAnna:) - but I gotta say I am very happy with the quality and quantity of what's been released.
As for my wishlist
- more episode adaps, maybe from earlier seasons - more historical issues, including the fanged four - crossovers with Spike - new characters for our gang to interact with (Eddie Hope looks like he's going to be interesting)
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Oct 28, 2009 7:25:24 GMT -5
I understand why some people have problems with the additional mini-series and episode adaptations. But I don't:) The adaptations are great fun, and I really cannot understand why people criticise them. My problem with the adaptations is that I feel that IDW squandered talent on them instead of using them for a more worthwhile project, like "Aftermath" (crap, I said the name!). It just makes me wonder about priorities. But quite honestly, I don't really care either way. I don't buy the adaptations, and I couldn't finish that arc. As for the mini-series spinoffs. I remember when a lot of the Buffy/Angel fans first started with Season 8 and After the Fall a lot were not regular comic book readers (myself included). They found it hard to adjust from a 40minute episode a week to a 22 page comic a month. "Not enough!" they cried! And now that IDW is giving more Angel stories every month some people are crying 'Too much!'. You can't please everyone:) I think that you'll find that the camps are pretty consistent. I believe that less is more, if less means that things are streamlined, and the story quality kept high. And as for the story still revolving round the events of AtF...well ya! It was a huge event. If IDW just carried on and ignored it people wouild be complaining too. Angel is famous now - it has to be dealt with, al the changes to our characters have to be referenced and worked through. And what Angel did best as a show was to really give a sense of continuity. What happened 24 episodes ago, will come up again and if you don't remember it then you gotta do your homework. Thngs like Skip being introduced in episode 2 of Season 3. When he pops up again in episode 17 of season 4....ya gotta know where he was coming from. Again, not opposed to referring to the past, or continuity. Those things are expected in the Buffyverse, and the continuity flubs of S8 have kinda annoyed me. BUT, as I said, it's beginning to feel really indulgent to have to keep dealing with events that unfold based on "AtF". And I guess I mean things like the Dru two-parter more than anything else. I mean, other than the epilogue after the epilogue and "Aftermath" (drat!), and now the Angel at the Comic Con stories, the ANGEL story hasn't moved at all. How many months has it been? People complain about S8 moving slowly all the time, but I'd offer this whole stagnancy issue here for perspective. It becomes apparent that perhaps it's not so much that the S8 story is moving too slowly for others, but that there are less distractions to appease them in the mean time. IMO, of course.
|
|
|
Post by angeliclestat on Oct 28, 2009 7:37:02 GMT -5
I agree with the Drusilla thing. That was dissapointing - I personally could have done without it. But then again I remember reading posts from people who loved it so at least some people enjoyed it.
I know what you mean about the story not going anywhere - without including Aftermath, your right. But apart from that it has only been 5 issues of non movement. But I would hav gladly sacrificed the Drusilla issues to be a bit further on than where we are. But December changes that and we are back to an arc again. I suppose it's the equivalent of stand alone eps on the show in between story arcs....those were kinda annoying too - but in retrospect there are good ones to watch again when you are in the humour for a story with no overall plot relevance. The stories since Aftermath are like that I think.
|
|
|
Post by angeliclestat on Oct 28, 2009 13:38:27 GMT -5
It just reinforces my belief that we're not doing canon here. Because there's no way that all these writers are coordinating their works together. Just like the flub with Armstrong not knowing the end of After the Fall and having Gunn in a car driving around - there's no way to keep the canon continuous with so many coinciding projects and frankly, I don't expect that much quality when they're throwing so much quantity at us. Yes but we are the ones that know things like that...cos we are massive nerds (said with proud affection:)). The general reader on the street would not know these things. The example you give about Gunn and Illyria in the car. I agree with you that that is a massive flub - but it was caught, and fixed and led to the wonderful #23 and the excellent 'Only Human'. If I was just reading the comic without going on websites or chatting to the authors on boards I would be none the wiser and would accept it as part of the story. Also the new Angel editor Mariah Huener has stated that they have an 'Angel bible' for all new writers, and that she is the one who will keep things checking over. So apart from that there have been no flubs in continuity have there? And at least IDW dealt with it and made something good come out of it.Unlike the (much much bigger) Warren flub, which was brushed off with a 'I forgot'. As for quality (apart from Aftermath) I think we are going to have to agree to disagree:) Anyway....maybe better to get this thread back on topic i.e. what people are looking forward to next year.
|
|
Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
|
Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Oct 28, 2009 15:02:28 GMT -5
Personally, I could do with more Betta George. I do think we will see some unification of vision over the next year, and Wililngham seems to have a good idea of what he's doing with the main title. I will trust the new creative teams for now.
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Oct 28, 2009 17:39:07 GMT -5
Anyway....maybe better to get this thread back on topic i.e. what people are looking forward to next year. Well, for me, my wishes hopes and thoughts are about doing the opposite of what's been done in terms of the strategy of offshooting stories to capitalize on profit. So it might not be the fluffy hopes and dreams, but yes it is a hope. So not so off-topic to me. I hope they do the opposite of what they've done and find a central focus.
|
|
|
Post by Wyndam on Oct 28, 2009 18:45:31 GMT -5
I hope Mooney will provide a few covers, if Messina or Frison take time off.
|
|
|
Post by angeliclestat on Oct 28, 2009 18:47:52 GMT -5
Anyway....maybe better to get this thread back on topic i.e. what people are looking forward to next year. Well, for me, my wishes hopes and thoughts are about doing the opposite of what's been done in terms of the strategy of offshooting stories to capitalize on profit. So it might not be the fluffy hopes and dreams, but yes it is a hope. So not so off-topic to me. I hope they do the opposite of what they've done and find a central focus. Fair enough:)
|
|
Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
|
Post by Paul on Oct 28, 2009 22:56:08 GMT -5
My biggest hope for the Angel books is that we get a long, consistant run from Willingham. What annoys me in comic books, and Angel has been guilty of it, is how they jump from creator to creator, often with huge changes in quality. The main Angel title has been pretty fractured and directionless for a while, so I'm hoping Willingham brings it some long-term vision. Same with Spike; I hope Brian Lynch stays with that for a good while, since he's indicated that this is his last Buffyverse project. I'd hate for him to only do 10 or so issues and then hand it to someone else.
I think there's a happy medium when it comes to spin-offs. IDW are kind of whores, publishing every idea that comes into their head, whether it's necessary or not. Spike is justified, and you can't really fault the Byrne stuff, but the episode adaptations are creatively pointless cash-ins. If people like them, fine, but they do oversaturate the franchise. On the other hand, Season Eight could do with a lot more spin-offs. Dark Horse missed a great opportunity not doing Faith, especially since the character is being totally wasted in Buffy right now. Also, given the global scale of the series, some kind of anthology mini-series focusing on other Slayers and supporting characters would have been great. It might have kept the main book more streamlined to, as we wouldn't have had "P&P"-style one-shots dragging down the pace. Imagine Buffy focusing only on the Scoobies, with spin-offs exploring the peripheral characters, and you have a well-organised franchise. And where's the Fray ongoing? If we wait for Joss to write it, we'll all be in our 80s...
It seems like both Dark Hose and IDW should take lessons from each other. Buffy has the long-term vision, but is slow-paced and flabby in the meantime, while Angel has the instant-gratification, but is scattered all over the place.
|
|