Was it a good idea to take the story to Tibet?

[Mathieu]

Just curious to see what you all think.

I just read the last four issues of Buffy Season 8 last night and even though the storylines of Retreat are decent, I couldn't help but think that it was pretty pointless to take Buffy and her army to Tibet... just to make the slayers lose all their magical powers and then realize that... oh yeah they might need to get their strength back at some point!!

I mean, seriously, what happened there? Why did they take the story to this weird place where Buffy thinks for a second that they have a better shot at defeating Twilight if they all turn into an army of helpless soldiers?

[AndrewCrossett]

The losing-their-powers thing was a bad decision on Buffy's part. Willow, Kennedy and Satsu were completely right about it.

Taking the army to Tibet was just fine for the story, though. It made sense... once Buffy made her (bad) decision, she thought she'd need Oz's help to carry it through, and Oz is in Tibet.

It's really no worse than being in Scotland, or California, or anywhere else. The Slayers are a world organization now... they should go where they need to go.

If Tibet is where Joss wants to take the story, that's fine with me.

[wenxina]

Tibet is no better or worse than say, Australia. The reason for taking the story to Tibet is only now becoming evident. Emmie and I wrote a review for #30 HERE that may help put the whole Tibet thing into perspective. Furthermore, I wrote a review for #29 HERE that explored the possible significance of the goddesses. For now, I don't think one can in any good conscience cry foul about the decision for a little globetrotting. Buffy can fly. It also seems that she has crazy superpowers. But how that happened, we don't know for sure yet.
Criticizing Buffy's decision to depower her army is fair enough, but there have been arguments made to explain why she did it. It's not the first time she's made a bad decision. In fact, every season, she tends to make at least one rather large blunder before finally dealing with the problem. "Retreat" was her blunder. Now let's see what she does to make things right again.

[NightlySorrow]

Yeah you'd think at some point Buffy would wise up and mature mentally and stop making these absurd and bad decisions. Will she never learn from her past mistakes?

[wenxina]

Nov 24, 2009 21:12:02 GMT -5 NightlySorrow said:

Yeah you'd think at some point Buffy would wise up and mature mentally and stop making these absurd and bad decisions. Will she never learn from her past mistakes?

Do we ever? People fall in love with the same type repeatedly, despite having their hearts broken each time. Some of us procrastinate like crazy, even though we know that it's probably not gonna payoff. Many of us go 5 miles over the legal speed limit. People still use cellphones while driving. I don't expect Buffy to become less human, just because she's more superpowered.

[NightlySorrow]

wenxina, are you saying people never mature, learn from past mistakes, and grow? We are all trapped in a cycle? Buffy will never learn valuable lessons from poor past decisions?

[Hallow Thorn]

I am all for the story coming to Australia!, Yeah so far the best things to come out of it is Oz and powerless Slayers.

[wenxina]

Nov 24, 2009 22:14:01 GMT -5 NightlySorrow said:

wenxina, are you saying people never mature, learn from past mistakes, and grow? We are all trapped in a cycle? Buffy will never learn valuable lessons from poor past decisions?

In a way, yes, I am. Hindsight is always 20/20, but most of the time, we pretty much repeat ourselves. Bigots will condemn, the stupid will irritate, the narcissists will preen. Growing up and getting older is supposed to be about getting wiser, but all that means is that you are able to recognize your faults. Doesn't say anything about not repeating your mistakes.

[buffyfan21]

I voted yes, b/c at least we get to see Oz again. But seriously, that aside I don't see anything wrong with them going to Tibet. I mean, it makes since for the story. Not like it came out of nowhere. Buffy and the other slayers needed to suppress their magics, it's only natural that Oz would be the first person she thought of. Oz was in Tibet, so there they went. Now, the whole getting rid of magic thing is another story entirely. Definitely a bad idea!

[AndrewCrossett]

Considering Buffy has survived 12 years in a job with a life expectancy of... what, six months... I'd say she's doing a pretty good job. And she always learns from her mistakes.

A perfect character who always makes the right choices makes for one hell of a boring protagonist. I don't think too many of us would still be bothering to read such a story... Hey, the good guys win again! Ten out of ten!

Buffy does the best she can, and sometimes she makes mistakes. Because of who she is, those mistakes are often costly. But that's the way life goes.

Even Superman gets his ass kicked sometimes.

[Mathieu]

Sorry if I'm repeating arguments that have been discussed over and over in the past months, it's just that I missed out on everything since I didn't want to get spoiled before reading the last issues...

Again, I feel like Buffy's decision to depower everybody was a huge excuse to re-introduce Oz again. Which is nice. It's nice to see where he's at in his life. I guess they also assumed Tibet would make for some nice sceneries and stuff.

But seriously how could Buffy ever believe that losing all their powers would be the key to their success? What about feminism too? She made these girls strong for a reason. Now she's telling them "you're still going to have to kick bad guys' butts, only you are weak again. Good luck!". It's Helpless all over again. Like a giant Helpless episode. It's almost criminal on Buffy's part. She knows the girls are constantly in danger.

[AndrewCrossett]

Nov 25, 2009 11:55:03 GMT -5 Mathieu said:

But seriously how could Buffy ever believe that losing all their powers would be the key to their success?

She thought it would be the key to their survival... "success" wasn't really an option at that point. She knew Twilight had the ability to track them through their magic, so she knew (correctly) it was only a matter of time before they were all captured or killed. By suppressing their powers and running to one of the remotest places on earth, she thought she'd buy enough time to figure out what to do next. It didn't work out that way.

Nov 25, 2009 11:55:03 GMT -5 Mathieu said:

What about feminism too? She made these girls strong for a reason. Now she's telling them "you're still going to have to kick bad guys' butts, only you are weak again. Good luck!". It's Helpless all over again. Like a giant Helpless episode. It's almost criminal on Buffy's part. She knows the girls are constantly in danger.

Is it really "feminism" though, when their strength comes from an outside source rather than from within themselves? While the Slayers still had a lot of work to do, their power came from a magical spell cast from a magical weapon. Maybe what Joss is doing here is taking away the training wheels, and letting the girls be strong through their own efforts and courage, without the crutch. Finally, it will really be "are you ready to be strong?" rather than "are you ready to sit back and let this magic spell make you strong?"

[henzINNIT]

Going to Tibet isn't the end of the world. It's just another somewhat unnecessary globe-trotting season 8 adventure.

[Mathieu]

Nov 25, 2009 12:21:01 GMT -5 AndrewCrossett said:

Is it really "feminism" though, when their strength comes from an outside source rather than from within themselves? While the Slayers still had a lot of work to do, their power came from a magical spell cast from a magical weapon. Maybe what Joss is doing here is taking away the training wheels, and letting the girls be strong through their own efforts and courage, without the crutch. Finally, it will really be "are you ready to be strong?" rather than "are you ready to sit back and let this magic spell make you strong?"

I see what you're saying here, and I kind of agree with you. But remember this Helpless episode when Buffy was trapped in the house with a monster without any of her powers!! Everybody thought it was sheer madness and criminal.

These girls have the most dangerous mission on Earth, that of kicking demons and vampires' butt. You can take their powers away for the sake of being "naturally strong" and not "magically strong" but let's face it, you also take away all their chances of ever winning the fight. They already drop like flies when empowered, so just imagine what it's going to be like now!!

The Slayer was empowered for a reason, and in my view, it's craziness to take that away from her.

[AndrewCrossett]

Nov 25, 2009 12:41:39 GMT -5 Mathieu said:

These girls have the most dangerous mission on Earth, that of kicking demons and vampires' butt. You can take their powers away for the sake of being "naturally strong" and not "magically strong" but let's face it, you also take away all their chances of ever winning the fight. They already drop like flies when empowered, so just imagine what it's going to be like now!!

I think it's going to be Buffy's fight from here on out... she's the star, after all. She now has power equal to Twilight's, so it looks like a one-on-one showdown between them.

[wenxina]

I'm placing my money on Blondie... just a gut feeling that she'll totally spank Twilight with some very cute shoes.

[Emmie]

Nov 25, 2009 11:55:03 GMT -5 Mathieu said:

Again, I feel like Buffy's decision to depower everybody was a huge excuse to re-introduce Oz again.

Wow, really disagree. The entire season has been moving towards a moment of the Slayers being depowered. I don't think Oz had anything to do with the decision to take the story into this direction, not as an excuse. Now I think they are both closely related, but if anything it's Oz's character who serves the "Slayers are depowered" storyline. That's been going on all season, that was the threat of Wolves at the Gate and the question raised by Twilight about the Chosen spell.

As for Helpless, what Buffy does without her powers is perhaps the most brilliant display of feminist text. And that's in a good way. Because stripped of her supernatural powers, she's just a girl who uses her brains to defeat a psychotic vampire to save her mother. And she does it alone. That is the definition of BADASS.

[wenxina]

Nevermind simply using her brains... she actually defied her natural instinct to run away from something that was way stronger than her at that point. "Courageous" is probably the word I'd use instead of "powerless".

[Max]

I think it was cool to put the story in Tibet,'cause we can see Oz and his new life .
And the fact that they are in Tibet,allowed them to fight a hudge army and some giant Goddesses,i don't think it would have been possible in a big city ,or even in Scotland .