WTF & LOL; Are they serious-moments

[Skytteflickan88]

Are there any moments in Buffy or Angel where the characters are serious, but it just comes out wrong, intended by the writers or not? It could be because of bad acting or bad writing, silly character-syndrom-thingy, bad lightning, etc etc,

Like this Spike scene in All the way:

VAMP 1: What is your malfunction, man?!

SPIKE: It's Halloween, you nit! We take the night off. Those are the rules.

VAMP 1: Me and mine don't follow no stinkin' rules! We're rebels!

SPIKE: No. I'm a rebel. You're an idiot. (dusts the vamp) Give the lot of us a bad name.

I guess for the writers it was a way to show how much he's grown since season 2, (or to show how much of Buffy's lapdog he's become, take your pick) but it just sounded stupid. Was he suppose to sound cool? In case he tells someone to follow the rules, and not give vamps a bad reputation, doesn't that make him a anti-rebel?

Maybe he was suppose to sound silly, to seem Buffy-whipped.

Then there's of course Buffy's and Angel's "make them say 'huh' before they're dust"-jokes just before or after staking/killing that don't always work for me. Not just because it's stupid to waste your time on in a dangerous fight, from a fighting point of view, but also because the lines are just too silly? Of course, that's part of why I love Buffy as a character, her goofballness. I don't get why they had to make Angel a wise-cracking-before-slaying guy too. To make him more likeable?

I normally like Angel's humour, but sometimes it just seem like he likes the sound of his own voice too much. Maybe I would have liked it better if Buffy hadn't done it first.

[wenxina]

He's not telling the vampire to follow the rules, really. He just thinks that the guy is stupid, and the fact that he calls himself a rebel doesn't sit well with Spike, since Spike considers himself a rebel.

[Emmie]

Sky, he wasn't saying that the vampire wasn't a rebel for not following the rules. He was saying the vampire was an idiot and was making vampires look bad for being so blindingly stupid. Like hanging out a teenage necking spot somehow makes vampires cool and dangerous? Yeah, suuuuuuuure.

Even if you want to call him "Buffy-whipped", Spike is still rebelling against his nature and beating down all manner of vamps.

But still, he was mostly saying that the vampires weren't "rebels" but just a bunch of idiotic vampires who get easily slain for their stupidity. Spike lays claim to the "rebel" title for flaunting vampire customs, but for most of all, seeking out the company of Slayers (slaying two, dating one) when all other vampires run away from the Slayer.

[Skytteflickan88]

I guess that's another way of looking at it. I'll keep that version in mind when watching the scene next time, I hope it will work for me. But being a rebel means that you don't follow the rules.

I agree, that vampire was lame, and that must have been part of why Spike got annoyed, but it's pretty hard to denie that Mr Rebel here told someone else to follow the rules, or that not-in-love-with-Buffy Spike would have loved to go out and have fun on Halloween.

I think most vamps are lame, very often, including several Spike moments, but as far as rebel-vamps go, Spike is usually cool, (even when it seems like he's trying to be cool, which doesn't work for all people), which is why my interpretation of the scene makes me roll my eyes extra much.

[Emmie]

Interestingly, it was never set in stone but it was implied that the rule of vampires not going at on Halloween has something to do with not giving in to the cliche. They never really fleshed out the mythos there.

So those vampires going out on Halloween would be like the nouveau riche building their houses out of gold because they think that's what it means to be rich. Where as the old money scoffs at this kind of flagrant behavior, realizing it has little to do with the substance of what it means to truly be wealthy.

So those vamps who go out on Halloween are living the cliched expectations of humanity.

[gumgnome]

Nov 27, 2009 23:07:26 GMT -5 Emmie said:

Interestingly, it was never set in stone but it was implied that the rule of vampires not going at on Halloween has something to do with not giving in to the cliche. They never really fleshed out the mythos there.

So those vampires going out on Halloween would be like the nouveau riche building their houses out of gold because they think that's what it means to be rich. Where as the old money scoffs at this kind of flagrant behavior, realizing it has little to do with the substance of what it means to truly be wealthy.

So those vamps who go out on Halloween are living the cliched expectations of humanity.

Nice. Karma.

I tend to agree with Sky that this scene comes off as lame rather than cool for me as well. So do some of Buffy's quips, but I think some of them are meant to be kinda lame, reflecting the amount of time she has to spend just stalking vamps on her own with nothing better to do than come up with lame quips.

[Skytteflickan88]

Nov 27, 2009 23:07:26 GMT -5 Emmie said:

Interestingly, it was never set in stone but it was implied that the rule of vampires not going at on Halloween has something to do with not giving in to the cliche. They never really fleshed out the mythos there.

So those vampires going out on Halloween would be like the nouveau riche building their houses out of gold because they think that's what it means to be rich. Where as the old money scoffs at this kind of flagrant behavior, realizing it has little to do with the substance of what it means to truly be wealthy.

So those vamps who go out on Halloween are living the cliched expectations of humanity.

I see. Spike is beyond superficial rebelness where one has to break rules just to look cool, to being too cool to care about breaking rules to keep his image up.

That thinking will help next time I watch the scene. I'll just block out the follow-the-rules part and focus on the rebel/idiot part and how cool he looks with a crossbow.

[gumgnome]

Nov 28, 2009 7:24:28 GMT -5 Skytteflickan88 said:

That thinking will help next time I watch the scene. I'll just block out the follow-the-rules part and focus on the rebel/idiot part and how cool he looks with a crossbow.

Funny - it's the crossbow that's always accentuated the lame-ness in that scene for me...

[Skytteflickan88]

I think he's usually cooler without weapons. I even find it weird seeing a vampire use a stake.

But if you block out the rest of the scene, the crossbow part is cool. Nothing compared to growling and punching, but still.

[CourtneyDax]

I think the biggest WTF moment was in "All The Way" with Willow and Tara's fight.

TARA: Willow, you are using too much magic. What do you want me to do, just, just sit back and keep my mouth shut?
WILLOW: Well, that'd be a good start.
TARA: If I didn't love you so damn much I would!

I remember the first time I saw that and I was like, "WHAT THE HECK WILL? That is SOOOO not like you!" That was the start of me getting rid of Willow as my favorite character. UGH! It was just so mean!

[Jaz ♀♀]

Dec 9, 2009 20:40:55 GMT -5 CourtneyDax said:

I think the biggest WTF moment was in "All The Way" with Willow and Tara's fight.

TARA: Willow, you are using too much magic. What do you want me to do, just, just sit back and keep my mouth shut?
WILLOW: Well, that'd be a good start.
TARA: If I didn't love you so damn much I would!

I remember the first time I saw that and I was like, "WHAT THE HECK WILL? That is SOOOO not like you!" That was the start of me getting rid of Willow as my favorite character. UGH! It was just so mean!

I too did not like that scene because it was definitely un-Willow-like the first time I saw it but I think that was mostly the writers fault for not showing the audience more of how bad Willow became with her being addicted to magic and them not showing us that she can't go a day (possibly hours?) without doing a spell. All we had previous was hearing the other Scoobies concerns with her constant use of magic and them not approving of it. And there was no scene where it showed us that using magic gave you a 'drug high' until 4 episodes later when she's clearly high in Racks place.

So yeah, I think the first time watching that scene, Willow-fans are gonna be 'WTF Willow!' (i did)....but for me when I re-watch it, I think that by "All the Way" ep she was already a magic-junkie and all junkies say or do things out of character because it's the magic/drug that's talking and not them.

Basically I blame that scene on the writers....or lack of scene that wasn't shown to us.

[buffyfan21]

Dec 9, 2009 20:40:55 GMT -5 CourtneyDax said:

I think the biggest WTF moment was in "All The Way" with Willow and Tara's fight.

TARA: Willow, you are using too much magic. What do you want me to do, just, just sit back and keep my mouth shut?
WILLOW: Well, that'd be a good start.
TARA: If I didn't love you so damn much I would!

I remember the first time I saw that and I was like, "WHAT THE HECK WILL? That is SOOOO not like you!" That was the start of me getting rid of Willow as my favorite character. UGH! It was just so mean!

Agreed. Definitely an OOC moment for Willow. Every time I watch this scene I get so angry at Willow and feel so bad for Tara. It just makes me want to yell obscenities at the TV.

[Miss. Rogueh]

When Buffy breaks down in Tara's lap is kind of a *alright writers I know you had to develop some kind of relation between them but seriously?* It always annoys me when i see it... and then the confrantarion in the hallway. UGH

[buffyfan21]

Dec 13, 2009 16:28:08 GMT -5 Miss. Rogueh said:

When Buffy breaks down in Tara's lap is kind of a *alright writers I know you had to develop some kind of relation between them but seriously?* It always annoys me when i see it... and then the confrantarion in the hallway. UGH

Really? I actually love that moment between them.

[Miss. Rogueh]

to me it felt way to forced of a situation... like oh yeah we forgot how are we going to link tara to buffy...

[Jaz ♀♀]

Dec 15, 2009 20:28:08 GMT -5 Miss. Rogueh said:

to me it felt way to forced of a situation... like oh yeah we forgot how are we going to link tara to buffy...

I don't think they were going for that, I believe that Tara and Buffy already had their first real one-on-one moment in season 5 when Joyce died and they were in the hospital and Tara was trying to comfort her....I loved that scene, it did show some awkwardness between the two because they didn't really know each other but i think it was that scene that broke down the awkward barrier between them and after that there was no reason for the writers to make a link for Buffy and Tara. I think this scene just reinforced their quiet friendship because Buffy knows Tara would be their for her when she needs someone to hear her secret with understanding and compassion.

[Beaumonde]

I don't really like the way Tara speaks most of the time. I dunno if it's the character or just the way Amber Benson delivers the line. I'm guessing it's Benson, cos there are some Tara lines I love (japanese commercials, bad spelling online, insect reflection).

She annoys me in The Body with:
WILLOW: It doesn't matter. We should get there.
TARA: Yes.
YES?! SHUT UP TARA

Shot of the bloody hand as Xander flexes his fingers. Pan up to Tara's face.
TARA: It hurts.
ughhhhhhhhhhh

[CourtneyDax]

Dec 15, 2009 21:46:50 GMT -5 Beaumonde said:

Shot of the bloody hand as Xander flexes his fingers. Pan up to Tara's face.
TARA: It hurts.
ughhhhhhhhhhh

But in that scene, she wasn't literally talking about Xander's hand hurting. She was talking about the pain and anger he feels now that Joyce is gone. Xander was exhibiting one of the many ways people deal with grief.
If you're talking about just plain line delivery, then I guess that's your prerogative. I thought it was always kinda awesome that Tara was the understanding one for them all. She never really had a role besides being Willow's gf, and this kinda became her thing.

[Darth Rosie]

Dec 9, 2009 20:40:55 GMT -5 CourtneyDax said:

I think the biggest WTF moment was in "All The Way" with Willow and Tara's fight.

TARA: Willow, you are using too much magic. What do you want me to do, just, just sit back and keep my mouth shut?
WILLOW: Well, that'd be a good start.
TARA: If I didn't love you so damn much I would!

I remember the first time I saw that and I was like, "WHAT THE HECK WILL? That is SOOOO not like you!" That was the start of me getting rid of Willow as my favorite character. UGH! It was just so mean!

That's interesting ... for me, Willow was not OOC in this moment. We had already had that "conversation" with Giles in Flooded when she told him he had better not piss her off cause she's so powerful. I found that moment between Willow and Tara particularly well done and also important for Willow's arc in season 6. This is what she was heading at: tolerating no dissent, not wanting anybody to hinder her in her ways. The way Willow blasted out that line "that would be a good start" made me shiver and I was quite happy that the writers were so bold to take this route with such a beloved character.

[Skytteflickan88]

Dec 15, 2009 20:28:08 GMT -5 Miss. Rogueh said:

to me it felt way to forced of a situation... like oh yeah we forgot how are we going to link tara to buffy...

I never thought of it that way.

I just assumed the writers wanted to show how much Buffy was hurting over being back and diffferent, and speaking with someone she loathed. It made sense to me they let her break down with someone she knew, but wasn't close with.

She turned to Tara not because they were friends, but because they were just kinde friends and because she couldn't turn to anyone else. Which made it sadder for me, that she couldn't turn to the people closest to her heart.

I see how you're thinking tough, about it being weird that Buffy feels so comfortable around Tara, but I kinda see it the other way, that's they're not super-close, and that's what makes it work.