Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
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Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 13, 2010 19:29:10 GMT -5
Maybe smoking cigars is symbolic of wealth and good fortune. My dad certainly seems to think so, since he recently started smoking them. Ah, Spike in Angel (the series). And they're both kinda sorta good guys. Make a perfect season perfecter, why dontcha, Joss?
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 14, 2010 13:53:23 GMT -5
UNLEASHED The Good; Especially love the gag of Nina asking Angel if he's Frankenstein and Angel self-consciously rubbing his forehead, Spike's taunting must be getting to him. Nice final scene with Angel making sure to anchor himself to the world once more by hanging out with his friends. The Hyperion has also not been forgotten and a sly dig at Scientology. The Bad; A little trite that they give the cryptozoologist to the cult to eat but then abolish the club? Best line; Nina; "Angel, he saves a lot of girls?" Fred; "Girls, guys, puppies, he's pretty much an equal opportunity saver" (presumably Fred has been told of Angel's Orpheus flashback) Jeez, how did they get away with that? Nasty scenes with Nina about to be eaten alive Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches In disguise; 8 DB get's his shirt off; 14, Cheap Angel; 7 Lorne remarks that hell has frozen over when Angel says their food is on him Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 14 Wes: 7 Gunn; 5 Lorne; 5 Fred; 3
Fang gang knocked out: Fred by the kidnappers Cordy: 15 Angel: 19 Wes: 7 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 2 Lorne; 6 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 3 Kills; Angel kills one werewolf. Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 45 vamps, 60 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Cordy: 4 Angel: 11 Fred; 2 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1
Characters killed: 2255 Recurring characters killed; 9; Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Spike noticeably absent from the gang at the beginning. Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,
Angel Investigations shot: Angel by the security guards Angel: 14 Wes; 2 Packing heat; Wes with a pistol and unusually Gunn with a shotgun Wes; 9 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 2
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn Groo; 1Cordy
Kinky dinky: Nina quite reasonably suspects Angel to be a psycho rapist. Well, not lately. Nina naked and chained (anyone else think she looks a little like Sharon Stone?). A fellow student calls and says he missed Nina in the life drawing class which implies she does nude modelling (she certainly has the figure for it). Captain Subtext; Wes not so subtly jealous of Knox whom Fred refers to as being 'Under me' and 'On top of'. The comparison of Angel to the werewolf is clear, he cut himself off from humanity to avoid temptation but ended up losing all value for people and lost his human side anyway, just as Angel might have if Doyle hadn't come along. Know the face, different character; 5 Parking garages; 8, Guantanamo Bay; Angel once again tortures ruthlessly Buffy characters on Angel; 16. It would have been nice if Caine the bounty hunter had shown up but as the actor had also played Sajhan maybe that was impractical. Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil What the fanficcers thought; Plenty of fic where Oz shows up in LA to help Nina out with what he's learned, if ever there was an ep for him to re-occur on Angel this was it.
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations; Lorne's reading not too good lately. Here's a good game for you, match the car to the AI member in the opening scene. The guys refer to being at WR&H for a month. Does Angel detect the werewolf by his scent? He's met one before, Oz in Phases. Spike still lies a lot. Different werewolf makeup than what we see in Buffy and thank god, much more impressive! Note though that Nina has amnesia for her first few transformations just as Oz had. Note it's Lorne who figures out how to find Nina. When Fred tells Nina that Angel was seeing someone does that mean CC or Buffy? Lorne makes an 'extra weight' remark of Angel, is that a joke on DB? Wes refers to the Initiative or whatever they call themselves nowadays. Marks out of 10; 7/10, enjoyable standalone ep, reminds you of the sort of thing they used to do in season 1
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 15, 2010 12:22:30 GMT -5
HELLBOUND
The Good; Great villain, some great Spike stuff and an all round great premise The Bad; ? Best line; Angel (to frozen in time Pavayne) "Don't worry I had them give you a window" Jeez, how did they get away with that? Gory as hell, how did this not get an 18 rating? Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 15, Naked Spike. Cheap Angel; 7 Subverting the cliche; Gunn and Wes always assumed Spike was going to hell Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 14 Wes: 7 Gunn; 5 Lorne; 5 Fred; 3
Fang gang knocked out: Cordy: 15 Angel: 19 Wes: 7 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 2 Lorne; 6 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 3 Kills; Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 45 vamps, 60 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Cordy: 4 Angel: 11 Fred; 2 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1
Characters killed: poor Claire 2256 Recurring characters killed; 9; Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, . Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,
Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 14 Wes; 2 Packing heat; Wes; 9 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 2
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn Groo; 1Cordy
Kinky dinky: Gunn likes Eve's lovely friend, Claire the mystic. Too bad she doesn't last long. Spike spies voyeuristically on Fred in the shower. Captain Subtext; Apparently Spike materialises beside Gunn in the toilet and makes remarks about his penis. What sort of remarks? Claire suggests that Fred and she hold hands if Fred is lonely. Pavayne describes Spike as a 'Little Nancy still crying for his mother', well he's got the last bit right as 'Lies My Parents Told Me Proved'. Know the face, different character; 5 Parking garages; 8, Guantanamo Bay; WR&H show some REAL inefinite detention Buffy characters on Angel; 16. Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil What the fanficcers thought;
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations; Of course the term Reaper is another supernatural series and he too sends souls to hell. Mercedes McNab guest-starred and at one point the devil goes 'Ooohhh Buffy' when handing Sam a stake to recapture an evil soul who thinks she's a vampire (because there are no vampires in the Reaperverse). Spike refers to the King's English as he's seen 2 Queens in his time (Victoria and Elizabeth 2nd) and 4 kings (Edward 7th, George 5th, Edward 8th, George 6th). Spike calls Angel 'Liam', he knows his backstory. Angel likes Spike's poems, did he continue to write AFTER he became a vampire? Spike suspects that it may be the First Evil tormenting him which seems logical. Spike also says he's been a ghost for months which gives us some timeframe. Love to have seen Lee or some of the other casualties from WR&H over the years as Reaper's puppets. In many ways I think they try to cast Fred as the team glamourpuss but she doesn't really cut the mustard in that regard, Amy Acker a beautiful woman but just doesn't compare to CC, Buffy, Faith etc. Very Christian idea of hell. Eve is actually quite heroic here. Very little Lorne, he's really sidelined this season even if he's now a regular. The fate of Pavayne is very reminiscent of the fate of the 'Family of Blood' in the Dr Who ep of the same name (possibly the best ep ever?), both it and Torchwood drawing a LOT from Buffy and Angel. So what happens to Pavayne AFTER the fall of WR&H at the end of the season? When Pavayne says that 'There's hope for you yet boy' when Spike has the choice of being human or rescuing Fred does he mean good Spike or evil Spike? Presumably Fred told Spike about Angel's Manilow obsession? Marks out of 10; 9/10 very strong ep, great villain, truly creepy and excellent performance from JM
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 15, 2010 12:29:17 GMT -5
If I was ever asked to characterize Spike in five episodes of Buffy/Angel or less, Hell Bound would be top of the list. Absolutely stunning.
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 16, 2010 7:02:26 GMT -5
LIFE OF THE PARTY The Good; Great acting from Andy Hallet, really showing some range here. Love the characterisation of Sebassis, he's like a demonic Noel Coward. "Yes, yes, sycophants writhe before me, you disgust me!" The Bad; Why do Knox and co keep referring to last years party? I thought the Beast killed everyone except Lilah? Were they brought in from WR&H branches in other cities? Obviously this ep owes a lot to the Buffy ep Something Blue with the Lorne storyline thrown in. The monster Lorne just looks stupid, reminds me of Dr Jekyll from League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Best line; Harmony; (of Angel's leadership)"Good luck! Morale here stinks. Everyone thinks you suck!" Jeez, how did they get away with that? The Pee-Pee demon is SUCH a yucky concept. Equally Gunn staking his territory is eugghh! Personally I always found lack of sleep the worst torture imagineable. Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 17, naked Angelx2 Cheap Angel; 7 Subverting the cliche; Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 14 Wes: 7 Gunn; 5 Lorne; 5 Fred; 3
Fang gang knocked out: Lorne for about a month Cordy: 15 Angel: 19 Wes: 7 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 2 Lorne; 7 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 3 Kills; Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 45 vamps, 60 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Lorne's id monster Cordy: 4 Angel: 11 Fred; 2 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: 2256 Recurring characters killed; 9; Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, . Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,
Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 14 Wes; 2 Packing heat; Wes; 9 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 2
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Eve and Angel, wonder what Lindsey made of THAT! Got his job and his girl! Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn Groo; 1Cordy
Kinky dinky: Voyeur Eve spies on naked Angel in the shower. She wonder if Angel needs some 'hands on' gentlemen's time. Harmony dancing! MMMMMMmmmm! Mercedes sure can cut a rug! Spike refers to Harmony as Angel's chippy just as CC did with the Furies. Angel considers Eve's quite lovely dress to be 'banging it out to the cheap seats'. Eve and Angel get it on big time, even with Lorne and Spike still IN THE ROOM! Eve has had sex under the 'great roofie spirit' before (maybe she ran into RJ's brother or dad?) Captain Subtext; Eve comments that Angel takes a long shower 'for a guy'. Sebassis strokes the PP demon affectionately. Lorne talks about jacuzzi strategy sessions. Fred and Wes start coming together. Gunn stakes his territory on Angel's chair, does this mean he wants to replace him? Know the face, different character; 5 Parking garages; 8, Guantanamo Bay Buffy characters on Angel; 16. Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil What the fanficcers thought; Not a lot, Eve/Angel actually less popular a pairing than even Connor/Cordy
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations; Lorne now loves Harmony and vice versa. He refers to Angel as Top Cat. Note Spike is now included in the AI meetings. Harmony now plays the CC role of saying what's true but what no one wants to say. Angel is a hockey fan as is DB. Who's raggedy Anne? They certainly do celebrate Halloween in England although not to the same degree as in America (in fact it's more celebrated in America than anywhere else including Ireland where it originiates from). Fred appear to be a violent drunk, good thing she stuck with cannabis. Wes' dancing has got a lot better since She. Marks out of 10; 7/10 fun, nice to see Lorne get some decent screen time
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
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Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 16, 2010 15:02:51 GMT -5
Oh Life of the Party. Thank you for giving me a fake-drunk Wes and Fred. Brings tears of laughter to my eyes every single time.
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 17, 2010 5:31:00 GMT -5
Yeah, they make a great double act but really this is Lorne's ep and Andy Hallet conveys his growing instability rather brilliantly
THE CAUTIONARY TALE OF NUMERO CINCO The Good; Love the return of the brothers and love the idea of El Diablo Robotico, we MUST see that in the Angel comics some time. Love Angel's cadiallac and the ref to Holland Manners. The Bad; Angel seems very rough with No5 at his apartment, he could have killed him! Don't you think Angel's rather full of himself about being the hero. Best line; Angel; "Wes, did you ever hear about the devil building a robot?" Wes; "Ah, el diablo robotico!" Angel; "No one ever tells me anything" Jeez, how did they get away with that? Hearts cut from bodies Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 17, Cheap Angel; 7 Subverting the cliche; Angel's heart no good because it's 'dried up beef jerky'. No5 thinks Angel wants to drag him into the quest but actually just wants to give him some mail. After Angel's stirring speech No5 just jumps on the bus Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 14 Wes: 7 Gunn; 5 Lorne; 5 Fred; 3
Fang gang knocked out: Cordy: 15 Angel: 19 Wes: 7 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 2 Lorne; 7 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 3 Kills; Angel kills the demon with a little help from his friends (or should that be amigos?) Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 45 vamps, 61 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 humans Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Cordy: 4 Angel: 11 Fred; 2 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: 4+No5 victims, the security guards have to be the redshirts of the Buffyverse 2261 Recurring characters killed; No5 10 Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Spike however is now coming along for the ride on investigations. Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,
Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 14 Wes; 2 Packing heat; Wes with his shotgun (nice gag about the weapons check) Wes; 10 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 2
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn Groo; 1Cordy
Kinky dinky: Spike remarks he can't 'diddle his willy'. He again refers to Harmony as 'his old tumble' and is jealous that she's now Angel's pet. Captain Subtext; Angel remarks of 'the father will kill the son' to Wes who hasn't a clue what he's talking about. How much do the rest of the gang remember? Spike refers to Angel as a drama queen. Know the face, different character; 5 Parking garages; 8, Guantanamo Bay Buffy characters on Angel; 16. Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil What the fanficcers thought;
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations; Great ref where the man who recruits number 5 is Holland Manners from season 2. Can anyone tell me whom the aging starlet Lorne is referring to? Wonder Woman referenced, this is at a time when Joss was planning the movie which sadly didn't come off (love to have seen ED or CC in the role). Very clear that Gunn is the most comfortable at WR&H. Angel's photographic memory again. Angel appears to limp some of the time, because of the beatings he's recieved or because DB's knee is giving him trouble? Note Spike knows how to defeat the demon through his poetic soul. Angel enters No5's home without an invite but does No5 dragging him inside count as one? So what happens the medallion after the fall of WR&H? Love to see it and the creature turn up some time in Fray.
Marks out of 10; 6/10, ok but not brilliant
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 17, 2010 16:14:10 GMT -5
Yeah, Cautionary Tale is definitely the weakest episode of S5, but it's still pretty funny having Mexican wrestlers in a show about vampires and demons and stuff.
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Jan 17, 2010 17:38:11 GMT -5
This is actuallly one of my favortie eps. Season 5 had alot of these one off episodes. The music though is what really got me in this one. The theme of the brothers mixed with angels own theme always makes me love this. That and the whole message of Heroism being reignited is very symbolic and beautiful for Angel"s character. The only sucky thing is when this aired. If they had showed this after soul purpose when Angel was already feeling bad it would have really showed a turn around in his spirit and demeanor.
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 18, 2010 13:08:39 GMT -5
LINEAGE
The Good; Hard boiled Wes in both terms of his negotiations and gunplay. All the scenes with Wes and his dad are excellent as is the assault on WR&H The Bad; We tolerate a lot of dramatic licence in terms of what AI can endure but Gunn being chucked against the staircase should kill him. If WR&H have this staff that controls Angel why not use it before? Best line; Wes (after Emil prattles on); "If I'd know this was a seminar I'd have worn a name-tag" Jeez, how did they get away with that? Hooks through the throat! Also Wes gropes around the cyborg's guts with his bare hands? Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 17, Cheap Angel; 7 Subverting the cliche; Fang Gang in bondage: Gunn chained Cordy: 5 Angel: 14 Wes: 7 Gunn; 6 Lorne; 5 Fred; 3
Fang gang knocked out: Fred passes out, Wes knocked out by his 'dad' Cordy: 15 Angel: 19 Wes: 8 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 2 Lorne; 7 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 4 Kills; Wes kills one of Emil's goons and 2 cyborgs. Angel kills a cyborg. Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 45 vamps, 61 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 3 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Cordy: 4 Angel: 11 Fred; 2 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: 2261 Recurring characters killed; 10 Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, here Spike saves Gunn Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,
Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 14 Wes; 2 Packing heat; Wes with his 45s, Fred with the sniper rifle. Presumably Wes uses the 13-shot model of the 45 as he fires 9 bullets when he shoots his 'father'. Wes; 11 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 3
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn Groo; 1Cordy
Kinky dinky: Emil is turned on by the sight of a woman handling a powerful weapon. Well who isn't? Worked for Ripley/Sarah Connor! Wes' dad describes his mum as 'sturdy'? Spike refers to him having sex with the Buffybot and his mum trying to 'shag' him. I know the Buffybot is true but is that really true about his mum? Not from my recollection. Captain Subtext; Lorne hints that Churchill and Richard Harris had a love child? Spike thinks Wes was grown in a school for dandies. Angel says he's not comfortable with hugging. Like CC in Spin the Bottle Spike makes great fun of Wesley being 'Head boy' (good thing he never let's on about his own relationship with his mother). Whereas the prophecy stated that the father will kill the son here we have the son killing the father (although neither turns out to be true). Angel wears a lot more grey than black this season perhaps illustrating his moral ambiguity? Know the face, different character; 5 Parking garages; 8, Guantanamo Bay Wes ruthlessly tortures the cyborg. Buffy characters on Angel; 16. Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil What the fanficcers thought;
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations; Emil is the guy who sold Wes his James Bond style weapons in Spin the Bottle. The ninjas are reminiscent of both the old Disney Star Wars clone The Black Hole and Snake-Eyes from Action Force/GI JOE. Note as soon as his dad shows up Wes returns to his klutzy season 1 self (just like Tara get's her stutter back in Family). Does Lorne say that Louis Gossett Jnr wants a phone party or foam party? Are the cyborgs Twilight? The Initiative? Or are they really from the Watcher's Council? Wes' dad and co stopped pre-soul Spike slaughtering an orphanage, you have to remember that the Watcher's Council were good guys who wanted to protect people. Nice ref to Lilah. Spike still fears Pavayne. Is it really Wes' dad? The imposter seems to know an awful lot about him, more so than any Watcher's files could say. Fathers as always poorly portrayed in the Buffyverse. Wes' 45. fires nine shots so presumably it's the 13 shot version rather than the standard? Angel and Spike recount the stories of killing their own parents. The story of little Wes trying to ressurect a dead bird speaks much of his humanity. Roy Dotrice holds the dubious distinction of being one of only three people ever killed onscreen in The A-Team (anyone name me the other 2? Or can you name all 7 members of the A-Team?). His daughter also married the late Edward Woodward.
Marks out of 10; 8/10, nice to have a Wesley centric ep
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 19, 2010 14:03:18 GMT -5
DESTINY
The Good; The fight, the race, the flashbacks, all great! And the great ending. The Fred/Eve hurt/comfort scene is also very powerful The Bad; As they point out in the commentary the Alice Cooper eyeshadow. Also the idea that Lorne would just lock himself in his office, I mean this is the guy who went to fight the Beast. Best line; Spike; "Mountan Dew!" Jeez, how did they get away with that? Gunn throttling Eve is horrible, reminds you of Lilah/Gavin. Spike and Angelus crashing the wedding. Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 17, Cheap Angel; 7 Subverting the cliche; Mountain Dew! Also when Fred tries to sympathise with Eve and Eve rejects her concern. Fang Gang in bondage: Gunn chained to the bed Cordy: 5 Angel: 14 Wes: 7 Gunn; 7 Lorne; 5 Fred; 3
Fang gang knocked out: Gunn doped up Cordy: 15 Angel: 19 Wes: 8 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 3 Lorne; 7 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 4 Kills; Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 45 vamps, 61 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 3 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Fang Gang go evil: Gunn big time Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Cordy: 4 Angel: 11 Fred; 2 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: 2261 Recurring characters killed; 10 Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,
Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 14 Wes; 2 Packing heat; Wes; 11 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 3
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Spike get's 'solid' again and jumps on top of a willing Harmony like the dumb tramp she is Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony
Kinky dinky: Spike and Harmony on the desk. Unromantic but having been denied the touch of a woman (or anything else) for so long hardly suprising Spike jumps on the first (room temperature) body he can get? Angelus and Dru, much to Spike's dismay. Dru refers to Spike as 'sweet willy'. Darla still devoted to her Master much to Angelus's disgust. Spike let's slip about the circumstances of him killing his mother, Harmony comments how it explains a lot. Fred knows what the term 'nooner' means. Love Eve's dress and the sexy striptease she does at the end. Gunn cautions Eve 'Don't be touching the robots'. Spike describes sex with Buffy as 'putting it to her'. Gunn says that Fred might want to tie him down again, does he mean when he went crazy or when they were dating? Captain Subtext; Angelus comments that he's sick of the company of just women and asks Spike if he thinks he's 'deviant'? Angel asks the newly corporeal Spike to stop touching him. Angelus bids Spike to be 'Home before sunrise' again casting the Fanged Four as a sort of family with him as the father and Spike as the son. Eve calls Fred 'princess' and 'sweetie', Spike calls Angel a ponce. Spike is happy to voyeuristically watch Angelus having sex until he realises it's with Dru. As with Lover's Walk, souled Angel still knows how to push Spike's buttons. Once again Spike and Dru seem to retain some aspect of humanity which other vamps lack, Angelus saying that vamps can't know true love ('Nothing is yours')and Spike and Dru intent on trying anyway. Spike also hugs Gunn and asks him to go drinking with him at the end of the ep. Even Joss comments upon the homo-eroticism of the Spike/Angel scenes. Know the face, different character; 5 Parking garages; 8, Guantanamo Bay Buffy characters on Angel; 16. Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil What the fanficcers thought; A great gift for Spangelers
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations; No Wes who's on a leave of abscence, possibly heading home to visit his folks after the events of Lineage (Alexis Dennisof in real life marrying Alysson Hannigan the lucky bugger). I'm sure the idea of everyone being sent mad by a phonecall was a Stephen King book? Eve quotes The Music Man. Hell of a tumble MM's stuntwoman takes when Spike hits her. Instead of racing Spike why doesn't Angel use his helicopter? Presumably Angel and Spike reach the opera house at the same time because Angel already knows where it is? DB apparently loves doing his Irish accent. Has he ever heard it? Gunn sees the howling abyss but obviously the budget won't stretch that far so the rest of us don't get to. Spike is right of course, he IS better than Angel because he fought to get his soul back. He blames Angel(us) not for making him a vampire but for making him the evil monster of a vampire he was, that it was Angelus' influence that made him worse than all the rest. Spike comments that Dru still has a bit of a child in her, like him she still retains some humanity. Or he retains some humanity BECAUSE she was his sire. Angel asks Spike does he want the destiny because it's his or because it's something to take away from Angel? You could make the same argument for Buffy, did Spike love her for his own sake or because she was Angel's and he wanted her for himself? As revenge for Angelus/Dru? And of course, Spike beats Angel in a fair fight! I guess that's one question answered. Does the title Destiny refer to Angel and Spike or might it actually refer to Lindsey who thinks his destiny is to run WR&H? Marks out of 10; 9/10 for the Angel(us)/Spike scenes alone
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Randi Giles
Wise-cracking Sidekick
I Want to Believe
Moon Eyes in disguise.[Mo0:34]
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Randi Giles on Jan 19, 2010 19:22:22 GMT -5
I just have to say that I LOVE this episode. I love any flashback episode. Angel, Spike and Dru were awesome and I loved seeing how it began. 10/10 for me. To answer one of your questions I never got the vibe that Spike wanted Buffy cause Angel had her. I think it was just part of his weird obsession with slayers. If you can't kill them...bed them. I also have to mention that Angel and Spike's fight was one of the best fights of both series. This and Faith/Buffy Graduation day fight are classics. It did however suck we didn't have Wes, but still great episode.
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 20, 2010 14:17:12 GMT -5
HARM'S WAY
The Good; All things Harmony, love the demon summit stuff and Fred and Harm bonding. Great bitchfight between Harmony and her rival. The WR&H corporate video is also great they should have got Troy McClure to do the voiceover. The Bad; It's lightweight and inconsequential but it's meant to be. Best line; Fred; "I'm sure Angel can help you" Harmony; "Angel's not a helper, he's a chopper" (as her friend Eli found out) Jeez, how did they get away with that? You feel so sorry for poor lonely Harm, just because she's evil doesn't means she doesn't have feelings. Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 17, Cheap Angel; 8 he refuses to give Spike any travelling cash but will lend him a car if it gets him out of town "Typical, you cheap sod". Subverting the cliche; Fang Gang in bondage: Lorne and Fred tied up Cordy: 5 Angel: 14 Wes: 7 Gunn; 7 Lorne; 6 Fred; 4
Fang gang knocked out: Fred and Lorne knocked out by Harmony Cordy: 15 Angel: 19 Wes: 8 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 3 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 5 Kills; one demon for Angel Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 45 vamps, 62 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 3 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Cordy: 4 Angel: 11 Fred; 2 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: poor Toby 2261 Recurring characters killed; 10 Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,
Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 14 Wes; 2 Packing heat; Wes; 11 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 3
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony
Kinky dinky: Harmony 'sluts it up' and beds a guy she picks up in a bar. She comments that Fred doesn't have 'a lot up front', sad but true and something she's a little self-conscious about to judge by Spin the Bottle. Fred actually knows that Wes and Knox are after her, you think back to her remark at the end of Waiting in the Wings. She thinks both are hot. Harmony offers to show Angel her abs. The demons refer to Angel as a 'filthy man whore'. Captain Subtext; The girls doubt Wesley could be interested in Fred because 'Everyone knows he's...muffins'. Vamps consider live people to be 'straight'. Despite implying that a male vamp would have to be gay to bite another man Harmony eyes up the necks of the office girls and has bitten Willow in the past. Fred and Harmony's night out resembles a date Know the face, different character; 5 Parking garages; yep, where Harm dumps the body 9, Guantanamo Bay Buffy characters on Angel; 16. Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil What the fanficcers thought;
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations; Always thought that Harmony's rival looked familar, finally recognised her as Karen, one of John Lithgow's students from 3rd Rock from the Sun. Angel and Spike are still bashed up from Destiny. We knew Spike and Fred were chummy but he seems to be on good terms with Lorne too. Was Harm ever really popular or did she just ride on CC's coatails? WR&H 'own' the LAPD which must have been news to Kate. It strikes me that if you really are an astronaut it must be a useless pickup line as no one actually believes you. Spike comes back to Harm in the end, shows his sensitive side and appears to finally give up any hope of ever being with Buffy
Marks out of 10;7/10 a lot of folks loathe this ep but I rather like it
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 20, 2010 14:38:38 GMT -5
Yay Harmony! I actually really like this episode too - it's like Angel's version of The Zeppo. Great episode.
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Post by lightandmagic on Jan 20, 2010 16:31:26 GMT -5
I loveee Harm's Way. I think it's one of the funniest episodes of the whole Buffyverse. Plus I think I'm one of the few who actually likes Harmony, and find this episode, while funny, incredibly sad, cause Harmony is just so damn lonely.
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 20, 2010 18:14:11 GMT -5
A tribute to the power of the writing that we can actually feel sorry for evil characters, especially Glory and Spike not to mention the great humanity shown by the Mayor
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Randi Giles
Wise-cracking Sidekick
I Want to Believe
Moon Eyes in disguise.[Mo0:34]
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Randi Giles on Jan 20, 2010 21:21:06 GMT -5
Alot of people loathe this episode? Why? It's awesome. How can you not adore Harmony?
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 21, 2010 4:31:32 GMT -5
SOUL PURPOSE The Good; Brilliant dream sequences, especially like Honky Tonk, Fred's surgery and the apocalypse fantasy. Interesting to see Spike and Lindsey setting themselves up like a proto Angel and Doyle. The Bad; Stupid looking creature and I don't buy the whole earrings idea. What's Lindsey's plan, he doesn't want to kill Angel as he sends Spike to rescue him? Just want to dishearten him so he gives up? Afraid that killing him would incur the wrath of the Senior Partners? Best line; Wes; "You're overlooking the merits of assassination" (words to make James Bond proud!) Jeez, how did they get away with that? Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 18, yep and his chest opened. Cheap Angel; 8 Subverting the cliche; Spike tells off the woman he rescued for walking down dark alleys in high heels. Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 14 Wes: 7 Gunn; 7 Lorne; 6 Fred; 4
Fang gang knocked out: Cordy: 15 Angel: 19 Wes: 8 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 3 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 5 Kills; Spike kills 5 vamps (2 offscreen) plus the parasite. Does Lindsey hire these guys and set them up to be killed or does Spike just patrol and run into them? Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 45 vamps, 62 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 3 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Spike; 21 vamps, 7 demons+1 human+one parasite Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Cordy: 4 Angel: 11 Fred; 2 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: 2261 Recurring characters killed; 10 Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,
Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 14 Wes; 2 Packing heat; Wes; 11 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 3
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony
Kinky dinky: As the writer states, the way to endear yourself to a film crew is to set a scene in a strip club (and a HUGE number of shows seem to end up there eventually), lots of lovely ladies wearing very little flexing themselves around poles. Angel gives Fred a pearl necklace, a pornographic slang term you either understand or you don't so I'm certainly not going to explain it here. Captain Subtext; Lindsey almost seems to trying a gay pickup on Spike who refers to him as Mary and Butch. He says he doesn't want to be Lindsey's 'kept boy'. Fred retrieves a pearl necklace from Angel's stomach? Angel imagines himself in bed with Buffy AND Spike (in the comics Buffy fantasises about the same except they're all in chains and she's dressed as a sexy nurse). Note however there are also female clients in the strip club. Spike refers to himself as a 'working class lad'. Rubbish, his 'mockney' accent is all a sham as Lies My Parents Told Me proved. He's upper class. This may be some form of class guilt from Angel who was middle class (The Prodigal) and feels bad about all the luxury he know enjoys. Get Gunn together and they could do the Class sketch from the David Frost show (funniest sketch EVER!) Know the face, different character; 5 Parking garages; 9, Guantanamo Bay; "Sold their children to the devil, KILL THEM ALL!" Angel has his Xena moment. Buffy characters on Angel; 16. Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil What the fanficcers thought; Remember reading an interesting one once where the stripper called Sunshine who Spike is watching is actually Kate Lochley earning money to fund her law degree (so that she can change her identity and become a DA in New York). Also not a few from Spikettes where Spike is the hero and takes over WR&H from Angel.
Missing scenes; Apparently for an April Fools Day gag there was a trailer for Dollhouse where Echo and Ballard get in the lift and ask the bear from this ep to hit the floor button for them. Anyone seen it?
Questions and observations; What does Harmony's remark about Machiavelli mean? Interesting that Spike used to do good deeds in order to impress his love Buffy. Now he does them because he has a conscience and it's the right thing to do. Eve is already wearing her earrings in the Honky Tonk scene. You can't help but think Wes and Gunn would make a good pair if they were ever to remake Miami Vice (certainly better than Fox and Farrell). Spike reads Wes and Gunn perfectly, once more showing his insight, the points he makes are all very true as Gunn is loathe to admit. Harmony remarks of Angel "Act like we care", Harm's Way obviously still rankles. What's the significance of the stone, is it just a plain red herring? The critter is very Aliens/Bad Eggs/The Hidden. Great to have DB's commentary but wish he'd talk less about cameras and more about the series as a whole. Eve says that Spike has yet to have a big red S on his shirt, may be coincidence but of course JM appears on Smallville. Once again Spike quotes Star Wars despite his mocking the Geeks for doing so in Sunnydale. The bear may be a reference to Hoopy Bear, a demonic teddy bear from the Buffy comics that turns into a real bear and acts out it's owners inner desires Something Blue style. Problem is the demon acolytes accidentally give it to Dawn rather than Buffy who's in the asylum at the time. Read it if you can, very cute story with a lovely ending of Dawn, Hank and Joyce happy together and a dejected Hoopy Bear down and out drinking beer behind the 7-11. Does Spike have any money stashed? He seemed to constantly be broke in Sunnydale. Shame SMG couldn't do a cameo, do we know the name of her double? She could go into the list of actresses who played Buffy along with SMG, Kristy Swanson, Eliza Dushku and the 2 little Buffy's we see in 'Weight of the World' and 'Killed by Death'.
Marks out of 10; 8/10
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 21, 2010 9:30:48 GMT -5
David Boreanaz is a great director, and he really seems to love it (see: Bones). Soul Purpose is also a very neat episode, sort of Restless-ish. Fun ride. LOVE Fred's scenes.
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Post by winterdreamer on Jan 21, 2010 11:59:13 GMT -5
I think she is confusing Machiavelli with Prince Matchabelli perfume, a fairly high-end perfume line that does not, (thank you Harm) come in a can.=P
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