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Post by joxerlives on Jan 21, 2010 18:08:23 GMT -5
Yeah that sounds more Harm's style
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 23, 2010 5:17:55 GMT -5
DAMAGE The Good; Great breakout scene, very Halloween, Terminator 2. Andrew is funny as hell and wonderful final scene between Spike and Angel. The Bad; How does Lindsey know about these things to send Spike to? Best line; Angel (of Dana); "She's an innocent victim" Spike; "So were we, once upon a time" Makes me tear up every single time! Jeez, how did they get away with that? All the torture and murder scenes and of course Spike's arms being cut off! Can't watch any of the scenes with Dana being tortured or her family being killed, just too horrible Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 18, Cheap Angel; 8 Fang Gang in bondage: Spike chained up Cordy: 5 Angel: 14 Wes: 7 Gunn; 7 Lorne; 6 Fred; 4 Spike; 6
Fang gang knocked out: Spike Cordy: 15 Angel: 19 Wes: 8 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 3 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 5 Spike; 5 Kills; Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 45 vamps, 62 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 3 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Spike; 21 vamps, 7 demons+1 human+one parasite Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Cordy: 4 Angel: 11 Fred; 2 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: Dana cuts up the 2 poor orderlies at the hospital, the unfortunate security guard at the supermarket (someone should count all the security guards who get killed in Buffy/Angel over the years) and the tragic docker who tries to help her 2265 Recurring characters killed; 10 Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes,
Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 14 Wes; 2 Packing heat; Wes; 11 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 3
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony
Kinky dinky: Andrew refers to Fred as 'attractive slender woman'. Lorne calls his assistant to get the whip. Captain Subtext; Andrew says that Spike is beautiful and comments on his 'Viggo Mortenson' pecs. Spike calls Andrew a ponce. Know the face, different character; 5 Parking garages; 9, Guantanamo Bay; Andrew takes Dana into protective custody Buffy characters on Angel; 17 Andrew Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew. What the fanficcers thought;
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations; Note Dana marks herself just as the first Slayer did. Gunn of all people loves the system, very different from his first entry to WR&H in season 1. Note that some of Dana's drawing have the Shadowmen in it. When Dana speaks in Chinise Spike replies with the same words he said to the Chinise Slayer as he killed her. Wes is in touch with Giles (through his father if nothing else?). Spike jokes that Angel's worry is starting to make him look old, a comment in ageless vampire Angel starting to look a few years older. Irrelevant that Spike didn't torture Dana or kill her family because he did it to THOUSANDS of other people. Remember the little girl in the coal cellar? No one trusts Angel any more, he realises that he and Wes&co have cut themselves off from the other Scoobs. Buffy and Dawn are in Rome with Dawn going to an Italian school. The reason we saw so little Joyce in season 4 is that Kristine Sutherland was housesitting in Italy for a year in order to let her daughter go to school there and learn Italian. And now Joyce's daughters do the same which I suspect is a very clever inside joke. Andrew's remark of Buffy needing a break from California may be a reference to SMG needing a break from the character of Buffy. The various Scoobies are reassembling the Watcher's Council just as Wes' false dad said they were in Lineage. In 'Lies My Parent's Told Me' Spike goads Robin Wood that his mother never really loved him and put slaying first (in fairness to Spike Wood had just tried to kill him). Here we find that this wasn't true, she did love him, her last thought was her begging for Spike to spare her so that she could go back to her beloved son. In School Hard Spike tells Buffy that the last Slayer he killed begged for her life. In 'Fool for Love' he tells her how he killed her and she doesn't beg. Maybe she did beg, just not out loud? Dana dreams of previous Slayers just as Buffy did in the original movie. Spike and Angel both consider themselves to be monsters. They might be right. The scene between them is too wonderful for words. Love to see Dana in the comics some day, all cured. Episode 11, halfway through the final season.
Marks out of 10; 8/10, strong ep but hard to watch. The final scene between Angel and Spike raises it up.
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Randi Giles
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Post by Randi Giles on Jan 23, 2010 10:33:16 GMT -5
^^I know Angel and Spike are those two type of character that you love to see fight and not getting along, but also love them when their together. Especially with this last scene. Andrew on Angel? Who would have ever thought.
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Hellbound Hyperion
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 23, 2010 10:42:56 GMT -5
Teehee, probably one of the most talked-about Angel episodes in Buffy Season Eight discussions. Dana, Dana... so Dana-gerous.
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 24, 2010 13:21:01 GMT -5
^^I know Angel and Spike are those two type of character that you love to see fight and not getting along, but also love them when their together. Especially with this last scene. Andrew on Angel? Who would have ever thought. There's is probably one of the most important relationships in the show YOU'RE WELCOME The Good; EVERYTHING! The Bad; NOTHING! Well actually, Spike has met Doyle during 'In the dark' so why doesn't he recognise the significance of the name? Best line; CC; "You're welcome" (Could it be anything else?) also like; Angel (of Lindsey's new superpowers from Nepal) "They sell that crap at the airport" and CC (grabbing Eve by the hair) "Let's go Lilah junior" plus CC (to Lindsey)"Dinner and a show. And you're both!" Jeez, how did they get away with that? Poor old Lorne has to get bled to make the spell work. Plus slaughtered nuns (once upon a time just Angelus' thing) Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 18, Cheap Angel; 8 Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 14 Wes: 7 Gunn; 7 Lorne; 6 Fred; 4 Spike; 6 Fang gang knocked out: Cordy: 15 Angel: 19 Wes: 8 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 3 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 5 Spike; 5 Kills; Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 45 vamps, 62 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 3 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Spike; 21 vamps, 7 demons+1 human+one parasite Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1 Alternate Fang Gang; Cordy: 4 Angel: 11 Fred; 2 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1 Characters killed: poor nuns 2270 Recurring characters killed; alas poor Cordy, we've had her from the very first episode of Buffy all the way through to the last season of Angel (8 years and over 100 eps) and now we must say goodbye. The shallow bitch queen of Sunnydale High became the girl we loved and lost 11 Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Spike now cut off from Lindsey/Doyle and drinking with the AI gang (as indeed is a lonely Harmony) Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 14 Wes; 2 Packing heat; Wes; 11 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 3 Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony Kinky dinky: Eve hints that Angel really rocked her world during their sex in 'Life of the Party'. Captain Subtext; Eve remarks that Angel is still the centre of Lindsey's universe. Hmmm? Know the face, different character; 5 Parking garages; 9, Guantanamo Bay; Harmony beats up Eve but doesn't get to bite her. Eve seems to give up Lindsey very easily. Once again we have the strangely ambivalent attitude to torture we see in a lot of TV and movies Buffy characters on Angel; 17 Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew. What the fanficcers thought; Read a lovely one where the last thing CC does is go to see Phantom Dennis, tells him she loves him and that it's time for them both to pass to the afterlife. And he does so they can be together forever. Another familar theme is that Xander's attempts to reason with Willow at the end of Grave fail and DarkWillow either destroys the world or takes it over in partnership with The First Evil. Then Cordy appears to her and convinces her to set things right because SHE rather than Xander is the real love of Willow's life. Missing scenes; Questions and observations; The critter in the tank is very reminiscent of the 4-5-6 we see in Torchwood; Children of Earth. Cordy joins Willow, Buffy, Giles, Angel, Spike, Dawn, Andrew and Riley as a Scooby bitten by a vampire. CC apologies to Wes for killing Lilah. Wes forgives her, possibly because of his own behaviour in 'Billy' and under Jasmine's influence. Nice joke on Hollywood that Conor Farrell (most overrated actor EVER?) is unknown to CC. We see Doyle again, all the more poignant as Glenn Quinn had died from a heroin overdose (with Andy Hallet also gone pretty soon they might start talking of the 'Curse of Angel') Episode 12 of season 5, only 10 eps of Angel left. Why not DB and CC on the commentary although Christian and Sarah do a great job. First appearance of Izzy the Devil who'll be more important later. Did Lindsey maybe bump into Oz during his travels in Nepal? He refers to Angel as Eurotrash, yeah pal, he's from where the history is from. Last scene is great and it's not suprise that the tears CC and DB cry are actually real, as were mine. The WB celebrate the 100th ep of Angel, a series that has run for 5 years and increased it's audience whilst slashing it's budget and has the 3rd bestselling DVDs in the US (Buffy no2, Band of Brothers no1). Then they cancel it. Then they go bust. Serves them right the morons! Marks out of 10; 10/10 (sob!)
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Hellbound Hyperion
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 24, 2010 14:02:28 GMT -5
Yeaah, about the WB... first Angel, then Veronica Mars. Two great shows canceled followed by two major overhauls of the company. You'd think they'd pick up on the fact that they were canceling their greatest assets. (On the other hand, at least both shows got good season runs *coughcoughFOXcoughcough*.) Yay You're Welcome! One of the best episodes of the show. Also, yay for retconning kisses into being important later on!
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 25, 2010 4:07:10 GMT -5
Into single figures!
WHY WE FIGHT The Good; Another wonderful Spike and Angel scene at the end, just as we saw in Damage. Once again past deeds come back to haunt us but this time it's what Angel did rather than what Angelus did. Also love Spike's 'Heil Hitler' salute to Angel and I think Eyal Podell does a great job as Lawson, he really looks like the naive all American poster boy (you could imagine him in Everwood or One Tree Hill or something) who is graphically confronted with the harsh realities of life. The Bad; Considering what badasses they're supposed to be Lawson overcomes AI very easily. Why do Spike and Lawson have to reach the shore before sunrise, can't they just hide underwater until night? Best line; Angel; "Spike's not in the SS, he just likes the coat" plus Spike; (of his fellow vamp prisoners) "Got to warn you, they're a bit stiff" also like; Nostroyev; (of Angelus) "You had quite the reputation back in the day but I haven't heard much of you lately" Angel; "I haven't heard much of you EVER!" Jeez, how did they get away with that? Gunn speculates that Lindsey is 'boiling in his own filth'? YUCK! Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 18, Cheap Angel; 8 Fang Gang in bondage: Wes, Fred and Gunn all trussed up. Not Lorne though, because losing his head wouldn't kill him? Angel chained to a mess of weights Cordy: 5 Angel: 15 Wes: 8 Gunn; 8 Lorne; 6 Fred; 5 Spike; 6
Fang gang knocked out: Wes, Fred and Gunn Cordy: 15 Angel: 19 Wes: 9 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 4 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 6 Spike; 5 Kills; 3 vamps for Angel several decades apart. Will he make the magic 150 total of kills by the end of the series? Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 48 vamps, 62 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 14 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 3 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 13 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Spike; 21 vamps, 7 demons+1 human+one parasite Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Cordy: 4 Angel: 11 Fred; 2 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: poor subs crew 2265 Recurring characters killed; 11 Total number of Angel Investigations; 6, from now on I really consider Spike to an inseperable part of the gang Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, Spike
Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 14 Wes; 2 Packing heat; Wes; 11 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 3
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony
Kinky dinky: Spike had been invited to a 'virgin bloodbath'... Captain Subtext; ...but when he got there the virgins all looked like Gobbels? Nostroyev was the lover of Rasputin. Hello sailor! Topical politcal comment on the War on Terror? This ep really deals with the moral compromises inherent in warfare, Lawson seems unable to accept that the US would do things like torture, use the supernatural for it's own ends and make alliances with evil people (like Stalin?) for the greater good. And yet here we do, Angel siring him to save the crew and help the war effort and then letting him and Spike go, responsible for the deaths of all they killed in the meantime. An obvious but powerful allegory to AI joining WR&H. It's a tribute to the power of the writing that there is no easy answer to all this, we don't know who's right or wrong, sometimes there are no easy options. When Fred complains that Knox messed up an experiment Wes emphatically agrees that Knox is unreliable. Know the face, different character; 6 Camden Toy who plays the Prince of Lies was also Gnarl and the Turok-Han on Buffy. Parking garages; 9, Guantanamo Bay; Need info? Torture a Nazi! See Captain subtext. Lawson comments that you win wars by not doing whatever it takes but by doing what's right. Tell that to the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki or all those folks in Eastern Europe we sold down the river to Stalin. Buffy characters on Angel; 17 Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew. What the fanficcers thought; . Plenty of stuff regarding Angel's missing years as indeed we also see in the comics with Angel during the Great War also travelling on a German U-boat and bumping into a Watcher called Colonel Wyndham-Pryce on the Western front.
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations; Maybe Buffy's theory about Rasputin wasn't so far off the mark after all? So if you get sired by a vampire with a soul you're still evil but you feel guilty about it? Does sound like a rough deal. Gunn begins to demonstrate his loss of his newly acquired abilities. Spike sings the contemporary British National Anthem 'God save the king' (which would be George the 6th). Good to see he and Angel are still patriots even if they are undead. It seems the Initiative have been around in one form or another for a long time (like Torchwood?). What a shame they couldn't have named some of the goverment men Mulder or called an agent who chainsmokes Morely cigarettes Spender, that would have been so cool. Like The Master and Khakistos the Prince of Lies seems to be gradually devolving into a Turok-Han, the older a vamp get's the more that seems to happen to them. Note when Spike is first captured by the Intiative in season 4 of Buffy he speculates that it's the Nazis who are behind it, stemming from his experience here. Note we have Angel still in his recluse phase (as we'll see in Have you now or ever have been?) and not yet a crusader against evil, he just wants to brood and only does the mission as he feels responsible for Spike. Spike's small boys delight in seeing a submarine once against casts him in the little brother role to Angel(us). No Harmony, who get's to clock off on time on a Friday night unlike the executives.
Marks out of 10; 8/10, a good ep, pretty much 'In the bottle' or should that be 'In the sub'. With Angel's reduced budget this year they tend to go for a lot eps just confined to the WR&H set (Harm's Way, Life of the Party) or other stuff that's lying around the studio.
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Hellbound Hyperion
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 25, 2010 9:45:39 GMT -5
I always liked Why We Fight's timing in the series - right after Angel regains his purpose via the Cordy episode (and as we learn later, also gets that nifty little prophecy), he hashes out the ethics of war with an old WW2 soldier. One of Angel's (the character's) better episodes considering what happens this season. I LOVE the ending to this episode too, with Angel and Spike. A shared moment of understanding between the two of them - rare thing until Shells and The Girl in Question.
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 26, 2010 5:56:22 GMT -5
Now here's a crowdpleaser!
SMILE TIME The Good; It's all fabulous, a truly, truly great episode and I'm proud to say I do own a puppet Angel doll (unfortunately the one with him in vampface as all the rest were sold out). The Bad; ? Best line; Polo; "I'm going to tear you a new puppet-hole bitch!" (a line never before said on TV and in all probability never will be again) also like; Puppet Angel; "I'm made of felt. And my nose comes off!" (as above) Jeez, how did they get away with that? The bit where the puppets make their creator 'talk to the hand', euugghhh! Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches Subverting the Hollywood cliche; Cute children's puppets are EVIL! Also like the talk between Gunn and Lorne with Framkin where he correctly points out that actually the public would invariably support him if their case ever came to trial. Puppet Angel's Jerry Bruckheimer style 'power walk' also hilarious. In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 18, Cheap Angel; 8 Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 15 Wes: 8 Gunn; 8 Lorne; 6 Fred; 5 Spike; 6
Fang gang knocked out: Angel by the nest egg Cordy: 15 Angel: 20 Wes: 9 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 4 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 6 Spike; 5 Kills; 1 demon for Angel, 2 for Gunn and 1 for Wes Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 48 vamps, 63 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 15 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 3 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 2 demon, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Spike; 21 vamps, 7 demons+1 human+one parasite Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; puppet Angel Cordy: 4 Angel: 12 Fred; 2 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: 2265 Recurring characters killed; 11 Total number of Angel Investigations; 6, Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne, Wes, Spike
Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 14 Wes; 2 Packing heat; Fred uses one of Wes' 45s to good effect (maybe they've learned their lesson from Lineage?). She's a good shot but then she is from Texas. Wes; 11 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 4
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 1 possible, Justine Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony
Kinky dinky: Nina and Angel start to grow closer and closer. Naked Nina in her cell showing an awful lot of flesh after returning to human once more "Oh my god, I ate him!" Hmmmmm? Flora the puppet says she wants to get Gunn's 'Pretty eyes'. Fred thinks puppet Angel is cute. Nina seems to now enjoy being naked and locked in a cage. She thinks the whole vampire thing is kinda sexy although she admits that's a cliche for an art-school chick. Polo's line to the little kid 'Get over here and touch it' is a bit suspect especially the way he moans and groans when he's draining the lifeforce and talks about taking their innocence away. Captain Subtext; Angel has been utterly oblivious to Nina's growing attraction to him but it's perfectly plain to everyone else, even souless Harmony. He does however pick up on the Wes/Fred vibe. Know the face, different character; 7 David Fury, writer, producer, director and now actor. He previously played the goat-sacrificer in Epiphany and the mustard on his shirt guy in Once More with Feeling. Parking garages; 9, Guantanamo Bay; Buffy characters on Angel; 17 Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew. What the fanficcers thought; .
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations; Especially love the way that Horatio can convey whole sentences in just a few sounds, Chewbacca style. Also you note that Groofus is beginning to be more and more won over to humanity (a common theme in Buffy/Angel), actually caring about the quality of the show in addition to their soul-sucking. David Fury is pretty good in his role. Fred shoots down Knox whom as we'll see doesn't take rejection well. It's been 4 months since Unleashed. Puppet Angel does pretty well against Spike. The last few seasons of Happy Days are referenced where Fonzie famously 'jumped the shark' (a sly joke for the Angel audience and critics who might think Angel is past it's best? Or the WB executives?) In an otherwise extremely lightweight episode we have the beginning of the fall of Charles Gunn, the senior partners having given him these new abilities he revels in and then forcing him to make moral compromises when they start slipping away from him. Presumably the camera crews etc we see are actually the real Angel camera crews? Why no commentary? Marks out of 10; 10/10, it's eps like these that make Buffy and Angel so special.
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 27, 2010 4:49:47 GMT -5
A HOLE IN THE WORLD
The Good; Some very worthy stuff here, lovely Spike/Angel and Fred/Wes stuff. Gunn starts to realise the price he's paid for his mind upgrade. Especially love the moment when Fred sings and Lorne reacts, reading her future. The Bad; The White Room scene seems very unnecessary Best line; has to be; Fred; "Wesley, why can't I stay?" Jeez, how did they get away with that? Considering what happened to Glenn Quinn the Burkles remarks about 'Junkie movie stars' are a little tasteless. Also Wes kneecapping the guy who just wanted his fax. Needless to say, hard to watch Fred suffer. Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches Subverting the Hollywood cliche; Fred isn't concerned by the sword sticking through Angel but wants the specimen on it In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 18, Cheap Angel; 8 Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 15 Wes: 8 Gunn; 8 Lorne; 6 Fred; 5 Spike; 6
Fang gang knocked out: Fred passes out Cordy: 15 Angel: 20 Wes: 9 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 4 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 7 Spike; 5 Kills; going to let Fred go out with a bang and give her a dozen demon babies from the nest. Also one for Wes and one for Spike. 4 of Drogyn's demon guards each for Spike and Angel. Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 48 vamps, 67 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 3 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Fred to Illyria Cordy: 4 Angel: 12 Fred; 3 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: 2265 Recurring characters killed; goodbye Fred, liked you but never loved you as I did say Willow. Still, sad to see you go. 12 Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike
Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 14 Wes; 2 Packing heat; literally as here we have Fred as Ripley (before Alien3 ruined the series) packing a flamethrower whilst Wes has his shotgun and a 45 later Wes; 12 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 5
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Do Wes and Fred have sex? She implies he's never been there before, do they have sex? Maybe Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony
Kinky dinky: Fred hints she's had group sex with the varsity lacrosse team. She says she's joking but you know she was doing a lot of weed back then. Fred is in effect orally raped by the essence of Illyria which then gestates inside her, taking over her body (again, very like Aliens) Captain Subtext; Spike; "You think we should annoy other people?" Couple or what? Spike thinks James Bond's tux is poncey. Say that to his face? Angel doesn't know about Wes/Fred just as he didn't know about Fred/Gunn. Spike and Angel hold hands, hmmmm? They refer to St Petersberg where Anyanka and Halfyrek also hung out, wonder if it was at the same time? Know the face, different character; 7 Parking garages; 9, Guantanamo Bay; Lorne hits Eve. Didn't see that coming just as Lindsey won't in NFA Buffy characters on Angel; 17 Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew. What the fanficcers thought; .
Missing scenes; According to the commentary this show was very long so plenty of scenes to be restored on a DVD extra Questions and observations; For my money the astronauts win, they've everything the cavemen have plus science and technology. Lots of Aliens imagery, Fred with a flamethrower, the critters at the beginning, even the 'cow-pat' emblem on the sarcophagus looks a bit like a facehugger curled up. Lovely Wes and Gunn moment over Fred, Gunn almost has you going for a bit. Knox is also very believable. Is Fred mesmerised by the sarcophagus crystal as Buffy was in Helpless? Spike and Angel have never flown in a plane before and seem nervous about it. Their bonding on the plane is lovely. They speak of returning to the UK as the mother country, obviously a long time since they've been home. Spike didn't like Les Mis, neither did I, rather see Wicked again. Like Dianne Warren though and I think secretly Gunn does too. Marks out of 10; 8/10 good ep but hard to watch
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Hellbound Hyperion
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 27, 2010 9:37:19 GMT -5
Probably the best episode of Angel Joss ever wrote? I think so.
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 28, 2010 10:53:43 GMT -5
SHELLS
The Good; Great battles and some real heartbreak for Wes and Gunn. Also like the skeleton key gag. The Bad; Why do Wes and co keep attacking Illyria with swords etc when his axe just shatters off her head in the opening scene? Illyria mispronounces 'Offal'. The ending is perhaps a little overly maudlin compared to 'You're welcome'. Best line; Harmony; "Sorry boss, if I'd have stopped her in Gunn's office..." Angel; "Did you get chucked out a window?" Harmony; "No" Angel; "Then you're one up on me!" Jeez, how did they get away with that? Wes stabs Gunn Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches Subverting the Hollywood cliche; Illyria; "My last high priest was taller" plus Angel doing his 'save humanity' speech only for Wes to give Knox some Frank Castle style therapy with his Colt 45 (and I'm not talking about the beer!) In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 18, Cheap Angel; 8 Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 15 Wes: 8 Gunn; 8 Lorne; 6 Fred; 5 Spike; 6
Fang gang knocked out: Wes by Illyria Cordy: 15 Angel: 20 Wes: 10 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 4 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 7 Spike; 5 Kills; Wes kills Knox Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 48 vamps, 67 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Cordy: 4 Angel: 12 Fred; 3 Wes; 1 Gunn; 1 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: 2265 Recurring characters killed; 12 Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike
Angel Investigations shot: although it's a wonder, they run in front of their SWAT team's guns? Angel: 14 Wes; 2 Packing heat; Wes armed to the hilt this ep Wes; 13 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 5
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony
Kinky dinky: Knox's mum thought he was reading porn. Let this be a lesson to us all, let your children read porn otherwise they'll turn into the crazed acolyte of an ancient demon warrior-goddess who plots to destroy humanity. Illyria strips in front of Knox. Spike agrees Harmony has a degree in tearing things up, his back? Angel refers to Jasmine violating CC. Harmony fancied Knox. Captain Subtext; Harmony has great insight for a vamp, telling Wes the girl of his dreams loved him. She also comments that Knox's Rick Springfield screensaver opens a whole new bunch of questions. Know the face, different character; 7 Parking garages; 9, Guantanamo Bay; Everyone tortures everyone else, it's the Spanish inquisition! Love the way Wes is glad that Knox is tortured even before he knows Knox is a traitor. Buffy characters on Angel; 17 Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew. What the fanficcers thought; .
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations; Note the weapons lined up by Fred's bedside. Harmony talks of her 'pound of flesh', a term from The Merchant of Venice which also features a climactic courtroom scene. Lornes isolation gradually growing. Willow is in Tibet, looking up Oz? Wes comments "Never a witch around when you need one", his wife of course Alysson Hannigan. 'Old ones' very Babylon 5 term. Note with the exception of Harmony who isn't part of AI Angel is now an all-male production? Is Fred's soul actually destroyed? Is that possible? Knox comments that humans have conquered demons through opposable thumbs, fire, TV and sneakiness. Guess that settles the whole astronauts vs cavemen debate, the astronauts win out. Illyria know's WR&H of old? She could be a mine of info on them. Do you think she knew Glory too? She learns the hard way that the ravages of time wait for no man and can even bring a goddess to her knees. We see Wes pack away Fred's Roy Rogers commemorative plate which she mentioned to Knox about in an earlier ep. AI seems to rapidly be becoming the place for people with nowhere else to go. Harmony makes herself incredibly useful in this ep, even figuring out the cellphone messages. Marks out of 10; 8/10
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 28, 2010 17:08:36 GMT -5
Shells has possibly my favorite "TV pop music montage" ever. It's too beautiful. <3
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 29, 2010 7:10:17 GMT -5
UNDERNEATH
The Good; All the Lindsey stuff is great and love the appearance of Marcus and everyone's reaction to it. Love the Spike/Angel conference complete with beer. The Bad; How does Lindsey know Fred and Cordy are dead? Or is he referring to Doyle and Gunn? You can see the perspective gag when Marcus punches through the security guard. The background on the roof set which Wes and Illyria stand on is obviously fake. Best line; Angel; "Bad things always happen here, Spike" Spike; "Hate to break it to you mate but bad things happen everywhere" Jeez, how did they get away with that? Lindsey/Gunn have their own personal torture chamber. Spike just picks up the hearts with his bare hands. Apocalypses: 5 Spike and Angel have a discussion over what qualifies as an apocalypse. Lindsey informs them they're actually living in an apocalypse. Angel Cliches Subverting the Hollywood cliche; Marcus doesn't want to fight, just to get Eve to sign her contract. In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 19, Lorne takes the bullets out of Spike Cheap Angel; 8 Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 15 Wes: 8 Gunn; 8 Lorne; 6 Fred; 5 Spike; 6
Fang gang knocked out: Cordy: 15 Angel: 20 Wes: 10 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 4 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 7 Spike; 5 Kills; Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 48 vamps, 67 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; suburban Gunn Cordy: 4 Angel: 12 Fred; 3 Wes; 1 Gunn; 2 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: poor WR&H security guard 2265 Recurring characters killed; Eve realises that she's going to die just like Anya in Buffy. 12 Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike
Angel Investigations shot: Spike and Angel Angel: 15 Wes; 2 Spike; 1 Packing heat; not the gang but you've got to love a series with Uzi toting soccer moms! Wes; 13 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 5
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony
Kinky dinky: Spike talks about 'pounding the neighbours wife'. Captain Subtext; Angel and Lorne comment on how well dressed Marcus is. Lindsey's wife is very reminiscent of Darla, you wonder if Angel and Spike are thinking that when then they open the door. Gunn obviously wants to be punished. Illyria says 'We' are so weak? Know the face, different character; 7 Parking garages; oh yeah 10, Guantanamo Bay; Harmony has been told 'No torture' by Angel. Lorne is shocked when Angel reveals he left Gunn behind. The Wrath! Buffy characters on Angel; 17 Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew. What the fanficcers thought; .
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations; Spike refers to Knightrider, he shouldn't have teased the Geeks! Spike asks what the collective name for the Angel gang is, we never quite decided, like AI and the Fang Gang personally. It's actually Spike who comes up with the idea of talking to Eve. Harmony in the title sequence, how great, MM in the show right from the pilot, now a regular. They talked about the Lorne Green idea before in Happy Anniverasry. Am I missing something about Wes' joke? The world without shrimp is referenced again, this time the world with it. Eve is the child of the senior partners but doesn't even know who or what they are? But surely Illyria does? Are all the inhabitants in the holding dimension prisoners? Do we ever see Gunn in his suit again? And he's shaved his head. Surely he must wear a suit for court? The partners obviously think a lot of Lindsey, keeping him alive to decide if he'll still be useful. What does 'blocking' mean? It's been 4 months since 'You're welcome'. Gunn actually comes across really well as the family man. Does Marcus represent the WB suits who cancelled Angel? Marks out of 10; 8/10 for the holding dimension stuff alone
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 29, 2010 14:15:58 GMT -5
Yeah Gunn! This episode features my favorite Angel/Gunn moment too, in the hospital. That holding dimension is so freaky, though.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
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"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jan 30, 2010 4:38:49 GMT -5
Probably the best episode of Angel Joss ever wrote? I think so. Since he only wrote 7 in 5 years, there's a pretty short list to choose from (and I could be wrong, but I think he only wrote 3 solo, with the other 4 being co-writes). My vote would still go to "Spin the Bottle" for his best one, tho. The background on the roof set which Wes and Illyria stand on is obviously fake. OMG, that background is horrible! I literally can't even watch this scene whenever I get back to this ep... but it's such a good scene otherwise that I can hardly skip it. So I just close my eyes, listen to it, and picture them on a real rooftop somewhere... In what context? I don't remember it being mentioned in the episode itself, so do you mean in behind-the-scenes director-speak? I think it refers to where the camera is placed in respect to the actors in the shot. In hindsight he could certainly be viewed that way, but the cancellation actually came down as they were filming this episode. Meaning that they'd already written the script for not only this ep, but at least one or two more further on, so the idea for Hamilton came way before they got cancelled. And if you believe him, Joss says he was completely stunned by the cancellation when it happened--right up 'til then, apparently he was absolutely positive that they were going to get renewed for S6...
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 30, 2010 9:25:18 GMT -5
Ah so that's what blocking means. Yeah, Spin the Bottle is better than this one but it's still a good ep.
ORIGIN The Good; Great final confrontation and like the way that Spike is so possessive of his clipboard. Powerful performance from Wes who grows ever more derranged as he suspects Angel has betrayed them. The Bad; ? Best line; Connor; (eying Illyria) "Sorry, always had a thing for older women" Angel; (muttering) "They were supposed to fix that" Connor; "What?" Angel; "Nothing" Jeez, how did they get away with that? Gunn has his heart ripped out on a daily basis. Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches Subverting the Hollywood cliche; In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 19, Cheap Angel; 8 Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 15 Wes: 8 Gunn; 8 Lorne; 6 Fred; 5 Spike; 6
Fang gang knocked out: Cordy: 15 Angel: 20 Wes: 10 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 4 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 7 Spike; 5 Kills; Angel kills at least 5 demons, Connor kills 2 Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 48 vamps, 72 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 demons, Jasmine Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Cordy: 4 Angel: 12 Fred; 3 Wes; 1 Gunn; 2 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: 2265 Recurring characters killed; 12 Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Wes refers to them running out of people. Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike
Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 15 Wes; 2 Spike; 1 Packing heat; Wes; 13 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 5
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony
Kinky dinky: Spike refers to Illyria as a 'filthy harlot'. Connor fancies her, once again a thing for older women, a teenage boy's lust so powerful even magic can't change it. Illyria wants to keep Spike as her pet. Captain Subtext; Marcus tells Angel he and Angel won't be having sex on the couch 'anytime soon'. But doesn't rule it out entirely? Angel's 'Do I look 500?' joke perhaps a comment on immortal Angel looking noticeably older. Check out the little look Illyria gives Harmony as she walks out of Wes' office. Hmmmm? Connor wonders if Sajhan wants to kiss him? Know the face, different character; 7 Parking garages; 10, Guantanamo Bay; Buffy characters on Angel; 17 Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew. What the fanficcers thought; . A few nice fics regarding what would happen is Connor and Dawn hitched up. What would the children of the son of 2 vampires and The Key be like?
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations; Never liked Connor but much like Riley in 'As You Were' he's much easier to accept in small doses. Anne Rice bashed. Good! Was it Cyrus Vail that made Sajhan incorporeal? What courage Gunn shows although you'd have liked to have heard what Marcus was going to offer him? You forget that Sajhan never met adult Connor so has no idea who he is. Does everyone now remember about Connor or just Illyria, Connor and Wes?
Marks out of 10; 8/10 here begins the rehabilitation of Connor for me frankly
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Post by joxerlives on Jan 31, 2010 5:29:43 GMT -5
TIME BOMB The Good; Great performance from mad Wes and lovely scenes between him and Gunn making up The Bad; In any show featuring time travel it's always a bit of a cheat to kill characters knowing you can just click your fingers and bring them back. Best line; Marcus; "Curing cancer Mr Pryce?" Wes; "Wouldn't be cost effective. I'm sure we make a lot of money from cancer" Marcus; "True, the patent holder is a client" Jeez, how did they get away with that? The Breathren want to feed their baby messiah consecrated urine and panda meat. I'm not sure which is worse? Apocalypses: 5 Angel Cliches Subverting the Hollywood cliche; evil demon Fell Breathren all paternal (and rather camp?) about the coming baby. They also like organic cola. In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 19, Cheap Angel; 8 Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 15 Wes: 8 Gunn; 8 Lorne; 6 Fred; 5 Spike; 6
Fang gang knocked out: Cordy: 15 Angel: 20 Wes: 10 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 4 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 7 Spike; 5 Kills; Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 48 vamps, 72 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 demons, Jasmine Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Cordy: 4 Angel: 12 Fred; 3 Wes; 1 Gunn; 2 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: 2265 Recurring characters killed; everyone but then they come back 12 Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike
Angel Investigations shot: Angel: 15 Wes; 2 Spike; 1 Packing heat; Wes; 13 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 5
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony
Kinky dinky: Gunn suggests they keep Illyria in a leash. Spike refers to 'Dear Penthouse'. Captain Subtext; Illyria says that adaptation is compromise and Spike teases her about learning and the Internet. Again, we see why humans rule the world and demons don't. Know the face, different character; 7 Parking garages; 10, Guantanamo Bay; Suspicion of each other has started to pull AI apart, they don't trust each other anymore? Buffy characters on Angel; 17 Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew. What the fanficcers thought; . Angel travelling in time used by many fanficcers to rescue characters from all sorts of trouble.
Missing scenes;
Questions and observations; Wes suggests they keep Illyria as an asset and he's to be proven correct. Jamie Bergman of course is Mrs Boreanaz and a Playboy Playmate. Has she turned up in Bones yet? Anyone else worry that Wes is slowly becoming Illyria's high priest? Marcus suggests that Angel has gone from front runner in the earning stakes to back of the pack, a hint of Angel's history at the WB? When did the 1000 year war begin? Anyone else think that Illyria reminds you of Lady Gaga? Jim Jones was a religious cult leader who led his followers into mass suicide in the South American jungle. Here Angel get's the idea for the story arc in the last few eps. Marks out of 10; 7/10 I think the Illyria storyline drags on too long
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
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Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Jan 31, 2010 13:59:33 GMT -5
Ahhh Illyria! This episode is amazing, I love re-watching it. If the show had gone on another season this episode would have had so much more impact.
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Post by joxerlives on Feb 1, 2010 7:02:20 GMT -5
THE GIRL IN QUESTION The Good; Personally I think it's worth it just to see 50s Spike and Dru in their chic Fellini phase. Also stunning to see Amy Acker switch from Fred to Illyria and back in the blink of an eye. Love the slow-motion fight in the nightclub. The Bad; DB's Irish accent, thankfully the last time we'll hear it. Best line; Ilona; "The gypsies are a filthy people and we shall talk of them no more!" (the line that stays with you from this ep) Jeez, how did they get away with that? Mucho racism against gypsies! And against Americans (which of course neither Spike or Angel are) and some great cliches about Italians both negative (feckless, excitable, untrustworthy) and positive (cultured, stylish, charming). Also it's a little bad taste for Spike to have kept Nicky's jacket all these years, especially when Robin Wood was around. Apocalypses: 5 Spike queries that defeating the Mayor or Jasmine really counts as saving the world? Angel Cliches Subverting the Hollywood cliche; our cool heroes Spike and Angel are defeated and humiliated by the infinitely cooler Immortal. In disguise; 8 DB/JM get's his shirt off; 20 shirtless Spike but oddly not Angelus? Cheap Angel; 8 Fang Gang in bondage: Cordy: 5 Angel: 15 Wes: 8 Gunn; 8 Lorne; 6 Fred; 5 Spike; 6
Fang gang knocked out: Cordy: 15 Angel: 20 Wes: 10 Doyle; 1 Gunn; 4 Lorne; 8 Groo; 1 Connor; 1 Faith; 1 Fred; 7 Spike; 5 Kills; Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons Angel; 48 vamps, 72 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg Doyle; 1 vamp Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 humans, 2 cyborgs Kate; 3 vamps Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans. Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human. Groo; 1 demon Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 demons, Jasmine Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite Fang Gang go evil: Cordy: 3 Angel: 3 Gunn; 1 Wes; 1
Alternate Fang Gang; Cordy: 4 Angel: 12 Fred; 3 Wes; 1 Gunn; 2 Connor; 1 Lorne; 1
Characters killed: Angelus kills one of the Immortal's lackeys. 2265 Recurring characters killed; 12 Total number of Angel Investigations; 5, Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike
Angel Investigations shot: no but Spike and Angel get blown up Angel: 15 Wes; 2 Spike; 1 Packing heat; Spike says they'll need lots of guns which may be a Matrix ref. Wes; 13 Doyle; 1 Angel; 4 Gunn; 3 Fred; 5
Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Angel describes himself as 'Seeing Nina' but denies she's his girlfriend. The Immortal of course is an eternal being who may or may not be evil, just as Buffy likes them. Spike says he knows he hasn't a shot with Buffy but still loves her. The bartender comments that the Immortal's girlfriends come and go. So this makes Buffy's track record; Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 4 possible, Dracula+RJ+Shadowmen's demon and The Immortal(?) almost certain that Buffy and the Immortal have sex but we've never see it so unconfirmed, all we're told is that they snuggle. But then she's done that with Scott Hope, Owen and Jeffery. Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen. Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes Groo; 1Cordy Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony
Kinky dinky: Spike tells Angel to 'Wank off!' The Immortal seems to have enjoyed a threesome with Darla and Dru which the pair are reluctant to do with Spike and Angelus. The Immortal didn't hurt Darla until she asked him to and describes him as insatiable and their sex as really great fornification. Dru refers to playing 'Pony'. Angelus once again declares that nuns are 'his thing'. The bartender describes Buffy as a 'girl gone wild'. Spike thinks that sex makes a relationship if you do it enough. Trish Burkle seems very fond of Wes. WR&H Rome CEO is a knockout. Literally, I think her amazing breasts would knock you out if you got too close (but what a way to be rendered unconscious!). She also seems like a past amour of The Immortal and considers their dealings 'most satisfactory'. Angel refers to The Immortal eating Buffy's cookie dough. Andrew appears to be going on a date with a pair of beautiful Italian girls, has he become a Casanova or.....? Captain Subtext; ....are they his 'fag hags' to quote Will and Grace? Loads of Spike and Angel bonding despite Angel commenting it's not 'About us' and referring to themselves as 'Partners'. Angelus' threat to shove the henchmen's arrows 'slowly up their arses' is rife with not so subtle gay innuendo as is the use of the phrase 'had us tossed'. Dru and Darla enjoy a threesome with the Immortal and then like to bathe together. Dru likes Darla to hold her underwater? Spike calls the Immortal a ponce. When they're on the scooter Spike tell Angel not to hold so tight. The male demon admits he's in love with the Immortal. Know the face, different character; 7 Parking garages; 10, Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 17 Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew. What the fanficcers thought; . Lot's of fic where the Immortal saves everyone from every possible fate that has befallen them. Lot's more slashfic when we see him with Spike and Angelus and sometimes both at once. Also a lovely one where Dawn has The Talk with The Immortal just as Joyce had with Angel, telling him that if he loves Buffy he must let her go.
Missing scenes; Rumour has it that SMG was willing to appear in this ep but Joss declined as he thought that the ep should be about the Angel characters alone and she would steal the show. Also rumoured that the Immortal would be played by Freddie Prinze aka Mr SMG or Christian Slater meaning that Buffy had fufilled her ambitions in the movie of graduate, go to Europe, marry Christain Slater and die. Then again maybe the Immortal is more of a Hugh Hefner/Errol Flynn sort of character and Buffy is just his latest Girl of the Immortal's Mansion? (RJ aside she always did have a thing for older men)
Questions and observations; We never see Gunn in his suit again. Lorne seems to be drinking a lot, we hardly ever see him now without a glass in his hand. Did Wes never tell Fred's family what happened to her? So is this really Buffy? According to the comics this is actually a decoy she set up because she's actually in Scotland but maybe that's AFTER this episode? Surely Spike and Angel would be able to tell her by her scent alone? Sadly the last time we'll see Darla, Dru and Andrew. What does 'Ragazza' mean? The chase scene may be a homage to The Pink Panther. Spike refers to 'shemps' from the 3 stooges. Illyria appears to be developing human feelings. Personally I agree with Wes, as long as Illyria can always keep up the pretence it's kinder to the Burkles to have them think that Fred is still alive. I think a lot of people dislike this ep as we see our cool heroes humiliated by the much cooler Immortal but I think it's great. Andrew says that Buffy loves both Angel and Spike which the comics bear out. Personally I think Buffy/human Angel with resouled/human Dru as the girl for Spike, Spike in all honesty knowing he's not the guy. You must remember that the Immortal is not the long term guy as he doesn't age and Buffy does, as the bartender and Andrew point out they can't be together for long. Marks out of 10; 8/10
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