martodd
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 36
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Post by martodd on Jan 8, 2010 14:07:04 GMT -5
I would ABSOLUTELY HATE IT if Twilight is future Angel or future Giles or anyone from the future. I want the villain to be from the now. And I really hope the issues to come would be great. As some of you have said – the covers could be fake or they could be true. I just hope that Angel would actually be in the issue, no matter if he is Twilight or not.
I wonder what the fan reactions would have been, if the covers had showed only half of what they did. Like if the cover had shown Buffy kissing Angel, without him being in this costume. Or if it had shown Buffy kissing someone in that costume, whose face we couldn’t really see.
Anyway, I agree with one of the posters – I am really, really hyped right now. I would never dare to imagine that they would let Buffy and Angel be together again… But if they do… God, how perfect would be if they do…
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jan 8, 2010 14:13:01 GMT -5
Still rooting for Buffy/Satsu, myself. Might as well go with the doomed relationship that appeals to me the most.
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Jan 8, 2010 14:13:08 GMT -5
Joss just can't pace comics for shit. Some would argue that he can't pace anything for shit anymore. The pacing of the first season of Dollhouse is partially blamed for why the show never took off. Perhaps he can't pace things... but I think it's symptomatic of today's "quick return" mindframe. I care about Joss' work and characters not because they fit in with the exciting times. Like his AXM run which I know you have previously said couldn't compete for attention with the "Messiah Complex" storyline taking over the X-Men universe at that point. True... it's not necessarily current, but his characters are so much more compelling. The decompressed method of storytelling he employs is dated... but so is Huckleberry Finn. Doesn't mean it's not good... just that it may not satisfy people the same way it did back in its heyday. I don't like Joss' stories for being topical either, but it's hard to sustain interest in something when it's dragged out for 2+ years. Season Eight is structured like a TV show, but it's taking much, much longer to come out. Just doesn't work. As for X-Men... off-topic, but I think Messiah Complex was just a better story all-round than anything Astonishing did. The plots in Astonishing were pretty dull, it was the characterization that stood out. But even that fell flat because Joss refused to work with the other writers. A year-long story of "is Emma evil?" doesn't work when she's appearing in 5 other books being very not-evil. If he wanted to write in a bubble, he should have made the series out-of-continuity, like All-Star Superman. It does not, however, explain why Buffy would be making out with a mass murderer. Is she really so pathetic that she'd fall into his arms just because it's Angel? It's a cover, and a variant one at that. The actual issue could be dark and heartbreaking, and the cover ironic fun. Wolverine and Emma did NOT kiss in the below issue. It was a tease.
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Post by henzINNIT on Jan 8, 2010 14:13:42 GMT -5
Doesn't matter if you're feeling hollow. Point is, you're invested enough to feel hollow. And you, like many others now want to know if it's true. I keep reading "I bet it's a hoax" or "I don't buy it for a second", only to nullify your confidence with the fatalistic statement of "I hope to god it isn't so!". Nothing in there says that you're going to stop reading. In fact, it sounds like you will be following in through. How does me being invested enough to care support the leaking of a cover as a promotional tool exactly? You're right, I want to know if it is true, because I want to know if DH has managed to drop the ball on a major spoiler for the second time in this run. Maybe I'd be following your thoughts if I had more faith in it being a gimmick. The disappointment that may compare to your examples isn't my beef right now (that may come later when it actually happens). When Oz left or Jenny died, I wasn't informed months in advance after it being built up for longer as a mystery.
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darthrosenberg9
Potential Slayer
"You haven?t seen my drawer of inappropriate starches?"[Mo0:37]
Posts: 107
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Post by darthrosenberg9 on Jan 8, 2010 14:36:55 GMT -5
As for the Astonishing cover, even though Wolverine and Emma didn't actually kiss, it's important to remember that the scene depicted DID HAPPEN in the book---it's just that it was Emma interfering with Scott's mind to make him look like Logan (because of his insecurities about Jean being in love with Logan before she died). SO maybe the scene on the Chen cover happens.....but we have no idea what kind of in-universe trick it might be. I say this because no matter how much I want these to be fake covers, I think it's highly unlikely that they actually are.....so instead of assuming it's an out-of-universe trick, I'm crossing my fingers for an in-universe one. And a completely silly observation: I was looking at my TLWH TPB last night and noticed that the Twilight symbol looks a lot like someone hand-writing the letter A (sloppily) as well as a slightly sqareish "alpha" symbol. Not saying it means anything...because that would just be stupid.....but I thought it was kind of funny.
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Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
"I picked up a hitchhiker. You've got to when you hit them."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,536
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Post by Billie Erin on Jan 8, 2010 14:39:11 GMT -5
I honestly can't believe that this is happening- are they playing some daft game or do they just have no clue how to handle spoilers? I feel a little (ok a lot) annoyed actually- many of the people on this site have spent hours posting lengthy well-thought-out possibilities on the Twilight Speculation thread just to have it all ruined by somebody somewhere clicking send on two image files? There are pretty much only three ways DH can appease me now: a) "It's a hoax, sorry" (I'd be irritated but relieved) b) "It was a mistake, we didn't mean to release it, sorry" (I'd forgive them- they're only human) c) "It's all part of a clever teasing plan that we planned a very long time ago" (I'd apologise for ever doubting them)
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Post by wenxina on Jan 8, 2010 14:40:35 GMT -5
How does me being invested enough to care support the leaking of a cover as a promotional tool exactly? You're right, I want to know if it is true, because I want to know if DH has managed to drop the ball on a major spoiler for the second time in this run. Maybe I'd be following your thoughts if I had more faith in it being a gimmick. You being invested doesn't support the leaking of a cover as a promotional tool. The leaking of the cover, and the reaction you had indicates your investment, and possibly renews it, thus making the marketing move a shrewd one. I'm just being rational here... not exactly one to start hollering and crying foul over something that may not happen the way I think it does. If it does, then I'll be writing a scathing review. If it doesn't, I'm spared the embarrassment (in my case, embarrassment would be what I'd feel) of having a public meltdown over a red herring. My first reaction when I saw the cover images was laughter. I thought it was hilarious that someone gaffed that badly and leaked the covers. Then I considered the other rational options... and I was placated. Then I read all the hysterics, and I laughed again. Hysteria makes me laugh... especially hysteria without all the facts.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jan 8, 2010 15:52:26 GMT -5
And a completely silly observation: I was looking at my TLWH TPB last night and noticed that the Twilight symbol looks a lot like someone hand-writing the letter A (sloppily) as well as a slightly sqareish "alpha" symbol. Not saying it means anything...because that would just be stupid.....but I thought it was kind of funny. That's it! Twilight is Alpha, from Dollhouse. Which would actually make more sense than it being Angel.
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cant
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 32
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Post by cant on Jan 8, 2010 16:11:46 GMT -5
Behind Buffy's Twilight Reveal just check that comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=24354Sure, last month Dark Horse Comics pulled a tongue-in-cheek fakeout as to the identity of "Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season 8" villain Twilight when the publisher teased the Big Bad's true identity would hit in March's issue #33 before revealing a mock cover showing President Obama as Twilight. But when today's April Dark Horse solicitations landed on CBR, a different identity was floated for the black-clad bad guy, and this time it's all too real. Twilight is none other than Buffy's former love, the vampire known as Angel. "We knew from the get go. It was back in January of four years ago when I found out that Angel was Twilight," "Buffy" editor Scott Allie explained to CBR in an exclusive first interview. "It sounds funny saying that. I've kept that secret for four years, so it feels funny saying out loud to a reporter from CBR that Angel is Twilight. I've tried so hard not to let those words slip!" And while one day in the reveal certainly has Buffy fans worked up across message boards and on Twitter under the hashtag #twilightisangel, Allie is more than happy to breath a sigh of relief that he doesn't have to sit on the secret any longer. "At the Baltimore convention this past year, I had driven there overnight and hadn't slept in like 36 hours. Then I did a panel with [artists] Jo [Chen] and Georges [Jeanty,] and somebody asked a question about Twilight. I replied by saying, 'Yeah, well An...' and then I caught myself! Instead of saying 'Angel' I said 'Another' and just started vamping and trying to come up with a sentence to cover the fact that I just spilled that Angel was Twilight. But I covered and was able to conceal the secret. Georges looked at me like he was going to kill me. That was the closest I came to blowing it." Though the editor was quick to note that while the secret was out there, plenty more twists and turns lie ahead for superstar novelist and comic writer Brad Meltzer's superhero-centric arc on the series (starting in February's #32) and right on into Buffy creator Joss Whedon's return to the series after that. In fact, Allie stressed that assuming a flat out battle between Buffy and Angel was the next step in the story would be wrong. "'The Big Bad' is a phrase that originated from Joss in 'Buffy' – this idea that in a season you might have a whole lot of people to fight, but there's one Big Bad, one major villain that you have to defeat at the end. But this is not like that," he explained. "Right now it feels to everybody on the outside like, 'Oh, the cat's out of the bag! Twilight is Angel!' but the question [of how the end game rolls out that] all the fans are asking is not really the right question. If this was any other book and Twilight was any other villain, that would be the question to ask. But the question right now is 'How does Buffy react to the fact that Twilight is Angel?' It's not as simple anymore as 'Now we've got to deal with the bad guy.' Jo Chen's cover to "Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season 8" #34, which revealed Angel as Twilight. "In the early days of my working with Joss, there was something he said to me about working in this field, and that is 'It's all about relationships.' I remembered that, and it's been a guiding principal in my career. That line jumped back at me this morning thinking about this spoiler being out there. Because it is all about relationships – if it was any other villain, it'd just be a question of who kills who, but it's a much bigger question than that. Who's going to ally themselves with Angel and Twilight? There are still some big surprises in store. It's not as clear as it appears to be with those covers slipped out." One immediate concern fans may have over the news that Angel and Twilight are one and the same is exactly what that means for the character's own canonical comic book series, which just recently wrapped its "After The Fall" continuation of his spinoff TV series for IDW Publishing. While IDW continue to tell stories with the character under the pen of writer Bill Willingham, Allie promised that Whedon had plans to reconcile both versions to make a cohesive Buffyverse. "I talked to Chris [Ryall] at IDW last night, and I'm going to talk to him today to reassure him that it all connects and it's all going to jibe. That's one thing we wanted to reassure him of and to make clear. This isn't going to be some big conflict with the IDW continuity. It's all going to be made to work." And "making it work" appears to have become the theme for Dark Horse and the entire "Buffy Season 8" project as the continued story of the vampire slayer, her gathering of pals and her new army of slayers has changed and adapted in many ways while still retaining Whedon's master plan. "There was a lot of pliability. As I've said before, when 'Season 8' first got handed to me, for years Joss and I had already been talking about doing 'Season 8' and what we would do. The big question was who was going to write it, or how it was going to be managed. We never, ever imagined that he'd be involved as he wound up being. We thought we'd give Jane Espenson an outline, and she'd go to town with it, or we'd get someone like her to run the project. Then what happened is one day Joss just e-mailed me a script for 'Buffy' #1 and said, 'We're going to do Season 8. I'm going to write the first four. We'll see what happens after that.'" Georges Jeanty's romantic alternate cover for "Buffy" #34. Four years ago, Whedon wrote out a "Buffy Manifesto" which included the identity of Twilight and was circulated under strictest confidence to Dark Horse editorial and the various comic and TV writers who would be contributing to the series. Still, the outline didn't specify exactly how each piece of the story would roll out, much like Whedon runs a TV series. "There was a lot of room for the writers to do their own thing and contribute their own ideas, but it was always being managed by Joss to keep it steered towards the ultimate goal," Allie said. "He knew all the major points and all the major bits, but he wanted to give each writer some individual freedom on their arcs. Like, when Drew Goddard wrote the third arc, Joss would say, 'Here are the big things we're going to hit, but what do you feel like doing?' And Drew said, 'I'd love to do Japan, and I like Godzilla.' So the fact that Buffy went to Japan in the third arc was Drew's idea, but the major points in the story were from Joss' outline. Then they'd get together and figure out how to use Japan to further the story of Twilight and the building of the Slayer army and all of that." The final pieces of the Angel as Twilight reveal came into play as writer Jane Espenson broke out her "Retreat" arc while Whedon decided what pieces would carry over to Meltzer's own story. "At the end of Jane's arc, Buffy gets superpowers. That was set up to play to Brad's strengths as a big superhero buff. When it came time for him to start writing, Brad said, 'I really want to play with this Superman stuff, and I can do that through Xander who's also a superhero buff.' And it was through their initial conversations we knew how much of focus we were going to place on Buffy as a superhero," Allie revealed. "We never had everything about it planned out too far in advance, and until a couple of weeks ago, there were questions about how far Brad's arc would go. Because this reveal of Twilight as Angel is a pretty big shift in what's going on, but what that means and what happens next readers still don't know. And there's a bunch of landmarks and reveals between his revelation and the end of the series. Up until a week ago, we weren't sure how many of those would be in Brad's arc and what would be left for Joss. But now we're pretty clear on what happens in Brad's final issue."
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Post by butters on Jan 8, 2010 16:16:52 GMT -5
um...wow!
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Post by butters on Jan 8, 2010 16:17:44 GMT -5
I cant get over the trade paperback image of Buffy and Angel! I Love it!
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Post by hitnrun017 on Jan 8, 2010 16:20:35 GMT -5
Woah indeed. This should be interesting.
But I'm pissed. Revealing who it was is just ridiculous. Mistake or not.
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Post by butters on Jan 8, 2010 16:21:22 GMT -5
Atlest we all now know...now we can just sit back and see how it plays out.
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parabola
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 131
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Post by parabola on Jan 8, 2010 16:35:51 GMT -5
I've kept that secret for four years, so it feels funny saying out loud to a reporter from CBR that Angel is Twilight. I've tried so hard not to let those words slip! Nowhere in the CBR article does it mention that releasing the covers was a huge mistake, as reported by Buffyfest!! I find that to be an important angle to this whole story. Allie's next sentence should have been "we made it four years keeping that secret, but not quite long enough." At least we can end the speculation now, move on to digesting the news, then see how it all plays out! Definitely lots of interesting questions raised by this.
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Post by butters on Jan 8, 2010 16:41:04 GMT -5
I just think this shows the person behind the mask hasnt been as important as we were making it. Shoot this is great, its the first time i have been excited for season 8 since no future for you!
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parabola
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 131
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Post by parabola on Jan 8, 2010 16:53:33 GMT -5
I just think this shows the person behind the mask hasnt been as important as we were making it. I'm thinking this is the spin DH will put on it. After the covers were revealed yesterday, they could have just kept things low-key and said "wait". Then they could have admitted the mistake, but at least it would keep people guessing until #33 arrived. Now it appears they've just owned up to the truth, and letting CBR spoil the news on their front page (heck, there's even a twitter hash that spoils it that Scott Allie used!).
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Post by Jonography on Jan 8, 2010 16:55:01 GMT -5
To be honest, I really don't think this exactly shows that Twilight is Angel. Sure, it's a cover for the issue right after Twilight's identity is revealed, but that doesn't mean it's showing who it is. I really don't think they'd release who it is by cover art before the issue was released. It pretty much makes it pointless to read that issue.
Chance is, the Scoobies run into Angel.
EDIT: So I only just now saw Georges' cover. Maybe I'm wrong... lol
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Jan 8, 2010 16:59:00 GMT -5
Cool. That interview gave me renewed hope that this will turn out for the good, and not be a case of "WTF, let's make him Angel!" The fact that they're in contact with IDW to make it all work in the bigger picture is particularly reassuring (also scores minor points for the " Angel is canon" brigade). Glad it's not a fakeout. As for spoilage by releasing the covers online... whatever. It was cool way to do the reveal, who cares whether it was in the actual story or not. I don't mind spoilers, it's nice to be surprised but I knew all the major things that happened in the TV show before I saw it and I still loved it. Sometimes it helps to be prepared. I do wonder why they did it though... publicity stunt to gain media attention and boost falling sales? As for the Astonishing cover, even though Wolverine and Emma didn't actually kiss, it's important to remember that the scene depicted DID HAPPEN in the book---it's just that it was Emma interfering with Scott's mind to make him look like Logan (because of his insecurities about Jean being in love with Logan before she died). You're right I should have clarified that. It's possible there's some in-universe fanwank which makes Buffy and Angel kiss, but my point is that covers are often deliberately misleading. Don't fall for them and their naughty lies.
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Post by butters on Jan 8, 2010 17:02:34 GMT -5
I think this might be good for DH to have done this anyway, as there would be lots looking to find out who Twilight is but now that people know its Angel there are going to be more saying WTF i gotta read this and see why! I think even more will pick it up.
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Post by Wyndam on Jan 8, 2010 17:03:40 GMT -5
One immediate concern fans may have over the news that Angel and Twilight are one and the same is exactly what that means for the character's own canonical comic book series, which just recently wrapped its "After The Fall" continuation of his spinoff TV series for IDW Publishing. While IDW continue to tell stories with the character under the pen of writer Bill Willingham, Allie promised that Whedon had plans to reconcile both versions to make a cohesive Buffyverse. "I talked to Chris [Ryall] at IDW last night, and I'm going to talk to him today to reassure him that it all connects and it's all going to jibe. That's one thing we wanted to reassure him of and to make clear. This isn't going to be some big conflict with the IDW continuity. It's all going to be made to work."
That was very surprising and also very cool to read. I'd been expecting Angel to be revealed as Twilight for a while now, and I'd always be thinking about this in the back of my mind: how would this work with IDW. Very cool that they are in contact and it will be interesting to see how this reveal effects both series and Angel as a character. Angel being a villain again raises some very serious concerns about the character, and this is something that could potentially screw a character up. I have faith though and am only excited about what lays ahead.
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