Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on May 21, 2010 4:20:38 GMT -5
originally, i thought it would be cool if the first tied into this season, but i think the universe compelling buffy & angel to act is much greater than the first. and now with all that we know and only 5 issues left of storytelling, i don't think there is enough room to insert the first, as well as resolve the conflict(s) at hand. But that's the stupid thing about it, the first power lies in manipulations.. Buffy love significance is Angel so she would listen to him and expect his thoughts. Their always could be cliffhanger for season 9... The first spirit appear out of Angel...
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alex_krycek
Rogue Demon Hunter
keeper of the x-files
sorry, i just remembered seeing king ralph[Mo0:30]
Posts: 484
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Post by alex_krycek on May 21, 2010 8:52:54 GMT -5
i agree with you that the first is nothing but a master manipulator, and all of this could be his works. i'm just saying that throwing him in the mix now, with only five issues left, may be too much info to fit into five issues. and i don't see a cliffhanger ending in the mix. rather than that, i see a few threads of opportunity to develope on in season nine. but hey, i could be wrong.
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richie
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:1]
Posts: 170
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Post by richie on May 21, 2010 14:20:26 GMT -5
i really don't think that the frist will play out, in season 8.... i think, sadly, that its story ended in season 7. but since cel vogel(or something like that) seems to be working for a third party, maybe, thats the explanation for twangel... altought i think that's nothing more to explain........ FOR ME, angel was out of himself due the power of the twilight(tha's again, for me, its not just a place, its and event resulting in a place), some kinda of cosmic spell, or evolution.... and now he and buffy snapped out of it, we will see things get messy, before gets good...
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Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on May 22, 2010 7:30:57 GMT -5
i agree with you that the first is nothing but a master manipulator, and all of this could be his works. i'm just saying that throwing him in the mix now, with only five issues left, may be too much info to fit into five issues. and i don't see a cliffhanger ending in the mix. rather than that, i see a few threads of opportunity to develope on in season nine. but hey, i could be wrong. I agree, its not enough time for the first too appear, its like only 4 issue left or something so agree.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on May 22, 2010 18:33:19 GMT -5
But that's the stupid thing about it, the first power lies in manipulations.. Buffy love significance is Angel so she would listen to him and expect his thoughts. Their always could be cliffhanger for season 9... The first spirit appear out of Angel... Gotta ask. Why the love for The First? Like... this all encompassing love lol
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on May 22, 2010 19:28:11 GMT -5
But that's the stupid thing about it, the first power lies in manipulations.. Buffy love significance is Angel so she would listen to him and expect his thoughts. Their always could be cliffhanger for season 9... The first spirit appear out of Angel... Gotta ask. Why the love for The First? Like... this all encompassing love lol I know, it's a bit weird. And very unrealistc. I quite like the First (certainly more than most fans), it was a cool concept, but let's be honest... it was a one-dimensional villain. A plot device to have dead characters show up and deliver scary lines. Joss wasn't interested in the mythology behind it, he barely explained it's motives in season seven. I doubt very much he cares enough about it to bring it back in Season Eight, especially with all the other crap going on. The First has had it's time, let's move on people...
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Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on May 23, 2010 16:06:57 GMT -5
Gotta ask. Why the love for The First? Like... this all encompassing love lol I know, it's a bit weird. And very unrealistc. I quite like the First (certainly more than most fans), it was a cool concept, but let's be honest... it was a one-dimensional villain. A plot device to have dead characters show up and deliver scary lines. Joss wasn't interested in the mythology behind it, he barely explained it's motives in season seven. I doubt very much he cares enough about it to bring it back in Season Eight, especially with all the other crap going on. The First has had it's time, let's move on people... I care, I thought the first evil was like unstoppable with endless recourse and that every concept of evil is basically the first. Because the first is the sin and the Creator of evil. But it didn't show huge potential of the first in season 7.. I disagree the first is not a one-dimensional villain, the first is the creator of evil with endless resources, its just that joss portray it as a one dimensional villan because like you said Joss wasnt interested, but he might now. The first evil is the source and embodiment of all that is evil, true existence of sin..........
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on May 23, 2010 18:49:51 GMT -5
I know, it's a bit weird. And very unrealistc. I quite like the First (certainly more than most fans), it was a cool concept, but let's be honest... it was a one-dimensional villain. A plot device to have dead characters show up and deliver scary lines. Joss wasn't interested in the mythology behind it, he barely explained it's motives in season seven. I doubt very much he cares enough about it to bring it back in Season Eight, especially with all the other crap going on. The First has had it's time, let's move on people... I care, I thought the first evil was like unstoppable with endless recourse and that every concept of evil is basically the first. Because the first is the sin and the Creator of evil. But it didn't show huge potential of the first in season 7.. I disagree the first is not a one-dimensional villain, the first is the creator of evil with endless resources, its just that joss portray it as a one dimensional villan because like you said Joss wasnt interested, but he might now. The first evil is the source and embodiment of all that is evil, true existence of sin.......... For me, this quote from "Amends" sums up Joss' attitude towards the First and villains in general: The First: Hmm. You think you can fight me? I'm not a demon, little girl. I am something that you can't even conceive. The First Evil. Beyond sin, beyond death. I am the thing the darkness fears. You'll never see me, but I am everywhere. Every being, every thought, every drop of hate. Buffy: Alright, I get it. You're evil. Do we have to chat about it all day? Buffy isn't interested in the First, it's motivations, and the mythology behind it. Buffy is interested in the human story, the emotional journey of the characters. The First is just a plot device for them to fight against. The Buffyverse is full of disposable villains, and half-baked fantasy concepts like the Old Ones and the PTB. That doesn't mean they're not cool or intriquing, but they're not what the series is about. Notice how all the recurring villains are those with some level of humanity... Spike, Darla, Faith, Lilah, Warren. The First lacks that, and is therefore unlikely to be explored in any depth. Which is kind of a shame, because it is a cool concept.
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terryb
Innocent Bystander
"Oh, god, no." "Please no."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 17
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Post by terryb on May 23, 2010 23:48:20 GMT -5
LOVELOVELOVE the cover!! Can't get enough of that face! Can't wait to have James Marsters scrawl his name across the front of it!!! I actually didn't care for Jeanty's depiction of Spike - it's too retro Spike. We've moved on from that period in time. More Season 7 Buffy/5th season Angel is appropriate. Can't wait for this issue to drop - however - it won't be in time for all the lazy comic readers to read their copy before Dragon Con. We couldn't have any conversation about Xander and Dawn's relationship last year because half the audience hadn't read their copy of the book. If you can - please read before Dragon Con!!!
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on May 24, 2010 0:50:45 GMT -5
I actually didn't care for Jeanty's depiction of Spike - it's too retro Spike. We've moved on from that period in time. More Season 7 Buffy/5th season Angel is appropriate. How would he be able to look more Season/Season5-ish? I don't see the retro.
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on May 24, 2010 1:14:05 GMT -5
I guess the retro comes from his red shirt and jewellry. Season 7/5 Spike is sans that
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Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on May 24, 2010 5:20:25 GMT -5
I care, I thought the first evil was like unstoppable with endless recourse and that every concept of evil is basically the first. Because the first is the sin and the Creator of evil. But it didn't show huge potential of the first in season 7.. I disagree the first is not a one-dimensional villain, the first is the creator of evil with endless resources, its just that joss portray it as a one dimensional villan because like you said Joss wasnt interested, but he might now. The first evil is the source and embodiment of all that is evil, true existence of sin.......... For me, this quote from "Amends" sums up Joss' attitude towards the First and villains in general: The First: Hmm. You think you can fight me? I'm not a demon, little girl. I am something that you can't even conceive. The First Evil. Beyond sin, beyond death. I am the thing the darkness fears. You'll never see me, but I am everywhere. Every being, every thought, every drop of hate. Buffy: Alright, I get it. You're evil. Do we have to chat about it all day? Buffy isn't interested in the First, it's motivations, and the mythology behind it. Buffy is interested in the human story, the emotional journey of the characters. The First is just a plot device for them to fight against. The Buffyverse is full of disposable villains, and half-baked fantasy concepts like the Old Ones and the PTB. That doesn't mean they're not cool or intriquing, but they're not what the series is about. Notice how all the recurring villains are those with some level of humanity... Spike, Darla, Faith, Lilah, Warren. The First lacks that, and is therefore unlikely to be explored in any depth. Which is kind of a shame, because it is a cool concept. The first is a very cool concept. But the first motivations are about human stories, the emotional journey of the characters. That why I love the whole concept of the first because its an expert at psychological manipulation, so their can ride people emotion and manipulate them. Faith Lucky me. I'm a player. Man, look at that. My hand's shaking. Demons, vampires, women in the penitentiary system—none of that freaks me out. ROBIN That's exactly what the First does—finds your Achilles' heel. And Faith knew it was a trick but the first overwhelmed her. I love the whole concept of the first i which Joss was interested.
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alex_krycek
Rogue Demon Hunter
keeper of the x-files
sorry, i just remembered seeing king ralph[Mo0:30]
Posts: 484
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Post by alex_krycek on May 24, 2010 11:51:52 GMT -5
despite spike's return, something tells me there's another big reveal with the military general that we'll find out.
my gut instinct tells me the general is ethan rayne and he helped orchestrate all of the whole twilight mojo on buffy and angel. sending buffy and angel to twilight brought chaos to the universe. and we all know ethan loves chaos. and what better way for him to get his rocks off then to bring about chaos and snake his way into the fold of the scoobies?
i know we saw ethan executed by the military, but something tells me there is a mysterio-like scheme here with a possible apocolyptic outcome.
woo-hoo, it's my 300th post!
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on May 24, 2010 12:50:59 GMT -5
I guess the retro comes from his red shirt and jewellry. Season 7/5 Spike is sans that I can't see any jewellry on either cover. Am I blind? And the Jeanty cover doesn't show if he has a red shirt or not, so I don't think that's what terryb meant.
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jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
Claimer of Funn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,174
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Post by jellymoff on May 24, 2010 13:26:41 GMT -5
I guess the retro comes from his red shirt and jewellry. Season 7/5 Spike is sans that I can't see any jewellry on either cover. Am I blind? And the Jeanty cover doesn't show if he has a red shirt or not, so I don't think that's what terryb meant. I'm pretty sure they are referring to Spike's appearance in #35 regarding the retro look. It has caused some to speculate that the Spike in season 8 is Spike from the past.
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Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on May 26, 2010 15:20:47 GMT -5
I forgot to mention, the cover is amazing.
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cutiepatootie
Common Vampire
lay waste to the world, and everything in it[Mo0:0]
Posts: 87
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Post by cutiepatootie on May 26, 2010 15:51:20 GMT -5
Gotta ask. Why the love for The First? Like... this all encompassing love lol Haha! I've noticed this too. Always with The First!
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Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on May 27, 2010 5:32:58 GMT -5
Because the first is bad ass in the mythology but not in season 7.
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rogue11
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 197
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Post by rogue11 on May 31, 2010 13:28:11 GMT -5
Oh my gosh! Why do they have to bring Spike back? He played a huge role in both the final seasons of Buffy and Angel, wasn't that enough attention considering that he wasn't the title charatcer in either shows? This could have been a chance for Buffy and Angel, well if the series goes the same direction as New Moon did, then buffy will choose Angel over Spike.
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Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
"I picked up a hitchhiker. You've got to when you hit them."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,536
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Post by Billie Erin on May 31, 2010 14:13:56 GMT -5
Being a Spuffy-shipper I am very concerned about how the Bangel relationship is going to overshadow Buffy's with Spike, this storyline almost seems too epic- how are we going to get a grand finale and all the emotional conflict that these characters deserve in just 5 or 6 issues? It just seems like some things are going to be left out.
As a side-note does anybody know WHY they've put the release date back so far? I'd like to think it's a necessity as a result of them getting behind because they want to do these issues justice, and not just some market ploy to get the hype up (I know I'm kinda cynical but still)
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