The Riley one-shot

[wenxina]

Twilight already had the US military under his sway by the time of "TLWH". This is evidenced by the scar on General Voll's chest. So it would make sense that he already had a lot of resources at his disposal by then.
But Buffy didn't actually know about Twilight actually being a person until "A Beautiful Sunset", after he kinda pummeled her. So the maximum time frame that Buffy's request could take place in is between #11 and #16, during which Buffy was already secretly in contact with Riley. I'll probably have more thoughts after reading the issue, but as far as the rough details go, I don't see this happening before #11.

[AndrewCrossett]

What this all means is that Twilight must have appeared on the scene, established himself, gathered a tremendous amount of influence and power and resources, and revealed himself to Buffy, all in a very short period of time.

He must have had supernatural help in this... maybe the PTB's influencing minds of his behalf.

Well, I'm off to Cooperstown for the day. I look forward to being several pages behind on the discussion when I get back.

[Hellbound Hyperion]

What this all means is that Twilight must have appeared on the scene, established himself, gathered a tremendous amount of influence and power and resources, and revealed himself to Buffy, all in a very short period of time.

Well, judging from the one preview page we have of #36, there was already anti-Slayer paranoia going around (as we see Spike witnessing in the upper-right panel). Conditions like that, all you need is charisma to win the people over. See also: Hitler, Mussolini, Mao Zedong. I do agree that supernatural help may have played a role, but there's also the possibility, like with Jasmine, that the opportunities simply presented themselves at the right moments. It's not an impossible scenario, IMO.

(Although Jasmine also mystically enchanted the whole world so that everyone would love her, so her charisma was not so much. Ebony goddesses - whatcha gonna do?)

[Paul]

This was a good issue, I enjoyed the characterisation of Riley and Sam. Riley definitely needed some justification for being in S8 at all and this was it. I kind of felt like Angel stole his thunder a little, which is sad, but hopefully when the whole Twilight thing is satisfyingly explained (fingers crossed!) that won't be as much of a problem in retrospect.

Didn't really like this art this issue. Normally I love Moline but his work didn't wow me this time. Plus I kinda feel like, this being Riley's very own comic (with his own logo, yay, I love individual character logos! , they should have used a new artist to give it it's own visual identity and tone. Something a little rougher and more realistic might have suited the "spy thriller" vibe they were going for.

[AndrewCrossett]

Aug 20, 2010 12:16:44 GMT -5 Hellbound Hyperion said:

Well, judging from the one preview page we have of #36, there was already anti-Slayer paranoia going around (as we see Spike witnessing in the upper-right panel). Conditions like that, all you need is charisma to win the people over. See also: Hitler, Mussolini, Mao Zedong. I do agree that supernatural help may have played a role, but there's also the possibility, like with Jasmine, that the opportunities simply presented themselves at the right moments. It's not an impossible scenario, IMO.

I think it would be impossible for him to amass the sheer amount of power he had in that short a time, without supernatural help. I repeat, the government gave an unknown civilian with superpowers control of the U.S. military and nuclear arsenal... all to fight a bunch of teenage girls who had never killed any humans, never made any threats, and whose only "terrorist act" at that point was destroying Sunnydale, after making sure it was evacuated, in order to close a Hellmouth that was about to destroy the world. (And the government knows all about that Hellmouth, as per the Initiative.)

[Emmie]

Paul, how was Riley's presence justified by this issue?

We already knew he was a double agent through the main run. What happened that changed that or added to it?

Nothing changed in how much we know about Riley except we were given more details. Further, the complaint that Riley has been completely pointless as a double agent in this season still stands.

[drywallman]

Aug 20, 2010 18:56:15 GMT -5 Emmie said:

Paul, how was Riley's presence justified by this issue?

We already knew he was a double agent through the main run. What happened that changed that or added to it?

Nothing changed in how much we know about Riley except we were given more details. Further, the complaint that Riley has been completely pointless as a double agent in this season still stands.

Yes they would have been better off billing it as an Angel one-shot with special guest star Riley Finn.

[VampSlayer]

I really enjoyed this issue.

It was super neat to see Whistler again! And the Riley/Sam stuff was good. I did think it got a bit repetitive at times, with the whole "Do it... Do it, Riley. You know you want to." And I didn't think the art was too amazing this time around, sadly. I loved the ToYL art, though.

Like others above said, I think Angel stole most of Riley's spotlight. I was more interested in him.

Also, I like that we got some more info on why Riley joined Twilight, but... What did he do? Are we supposed to assume?

[BlueJay]

Aug 20, 2010 18:56:15 GMT -5 Emmie said:

Paul, how was Riley's presence justified by this issue?

We already knew he was a double agent through the main run. What happened that changed that or added to it?

Nothing changed in how much we know about Riley except we were given more details. Further, the complaint that Riley has been completely pointless as a double agent in this season still stands.

Emmie, I completely agree. I came out of reading this having learned nothing new other than Angel/Whistler. However, I guess it can be argued that this issue emphasized how much Buffy would depend/need Riley in this kind of situation. The issue also gives us a better understanding of Riley's and Sam's relationship.

[Paul]

Aug 20, 2010 18:56:15 GMT -5 Emmie said:

Paul, how was Riley's presence justified by this issue?

We already knew he was a double agent through the main run. What happened that changed that or added to it?

Nothing changed in how much we know about Riley except we were given more details. Further, the complaint that Riley has been completely pointless as a double agent in this season still stands.

I was talking about his being in the series, rather than his role as a double agent. Beforehand, he appeared in a few panels and said or did nothing. In this, he at least had some character development with regard to his current state of mind and relationship with Sam. I agree that his double agent role was pretty pointless, but I'm glad he popped up for some facetime in S8.

[Whedon Fan]

Nice issue. Loving the one shot issues in season 8.Willow and now Riley. . like others have said it was more of an ANGEL issue but meh not going to complain at taht. I was really needing a bit more insight into the champion good do'er suddenly killing slayers still a bit hazy on it but if the PTB have put him up for it then I can see why he was swayed. They have led him for years now with the visions trying to help people so he must have thought he was doing good.
His choices: Go to buffy and tell her everything and fight it- they both die
Put the mask on do what he has to do- for the world

Thats about it really, where is everyone placeing this issue? Inbetween Wolves at the gate and time of your life? Can't wait for issue 36. . 3-4 years of sticking by this comic, hope it has a good pay off. Hope its going to be big!

[leyki]

Why do some of us, assume that the PTB are there for a good cause?

I've never really liked "those guys", they never really helped in any major situation, just a few visions to save some innocents, nothing more.

There is something else going on here.
I don't know, maybe another player that wants to rule the world, maybe something else.
But certainly, not the good guys, not in any way....

[Whedon Fan]

The powers were always in a kind of grey area because they have that "we are always right, our way only and thats it" kind of thing about them but I wouldn't think that they would lead Angel astray down a dark path of kiling slayers and beaten up Buffy a ton of times behind the twilight mask. . .remember the oracles from angel season 1? They were in line with the powers and they turned back time to save Buffy and make Angel a vampire again, they helped him in killing Vocah, Doyle answered to them and he got the visions from the powers orignially.

[leyki]

No, they didn't turn back time to save Buffy's life,
they took a life for another life.

They took Angel's life in order to save Buffy's.

That's balance? Maybe, somebody could say that.

They never helped with Cordelia, just let her become a mappet, Jasmine's vessel, they've done nothing when Angel moved in W&H, nothing in the final battle, they didn't help in AtF, whenever they were really needed, they just weren't there.

And now, they come with the big plan, that every kind of future is cursed, unless Angel becomes Twilight and kills hundreds and basically betrays Buffy.

Sorry, don't bite it.

[Dorotea]

Riley's one shot is an interesting story in itself, but what makes it even more intriguing (and thus more difficult to review), is the fact that it contains two stories wrapped in one, with two seemingly distinctive and even contrasting messages. Yet when looking closer , one cannot but realize that in fact there is only one message , and is spelled right away in the subtitle.

"Commitment through Distance. Virtue through Sin."

The message is almost too straightforward and aimed to dispel any doubt at what this issue is all about. (Yet I already saw many readers who choose to disregard it, even after being hit with it straight between the eyes, figuratively speaking.)

It is important to point out that Riley's one shot is also a long-awaited exposition, and the life preserver thrown by the writers to the desperately stranded faction of the readers who were still seeking sense in ‘Angel as Twilight’ plot - with majority of the readership already firmly in the 'Angel has finally turned evil for good' camp. Being one of the few who never believed that Angel has turned into a self-obsessed, egotistic maniac ,( or a brain-washed pawn of some dark force), I am relieved. Although I might say this time Joss underestimated the desire of certain sections of the fandom to believe in what they want to believe, and almost overestimated the steadfastness and patience of other factions.

Note on the side - trust in Joss is not something the Whedon fans are accustomed to. Joss is famous for his love of bloody sports with the characters. So, guys out there writing/editing the comic scripts - keep this in mind next time you decide to play this game. Be prepared to dispel the readers mistrust in what message you are delivering in the story with your best arguments ( after you are done toying with us) - for we are all scarred and toughened bunch of almost religious believers in our own vision of your story. My point is - just telling 'he is really the good guy' - while employing subtle hints and trust in the readers' common sense would not be enough. We would need to know all the 'why's and 'how's.

But back to my review. What actually happens in this issue? In a nutshell , Riley and Sam are led by their noses (by way of deciphering the coordinates of the target of one weirdly behaving ballistic missile) to the secret location in the middle of some tropical paradise archipelago - where they discover the cave with Twilight secret base, swarming with what looks like a small army of human soldiers . As the couple makes they way to their destination they talk, and we learn many intriguing facts about their personal situation and about two mysterious calls that Riley Finn had received almost simultaneously : one was from Buffy, the other from the leader of an anti-magic cult aiming to eliminate the Slayer army. Riley told each party he will think about it. It is not clear if the calls were received after Mr. and Ms. Finn arrived at the farm in Iowa, but likely this is not very important.

In process of finding the Twilight base, Riley and Sam encounter many matreshka-doll similar (personality-wise) army generals, who seem to be in unlimited supply in Twilight organization. Apparently, many a senior officer in the Pentagon is actively involved in the conspiracy - and their access to the US weapons - even strategic nuclear ballistic missiles - is unlimited and unrestricted. Looks like the government itself might be actually in control of the whole operation - but prefers to keep it undercover - sort of like relegating running of the security operations to Blackwater Inc. ('We are the government baby, that's what we do.')

For the record - Riley and Sam Finn appear to be the super couple - sort of like Ms. and Mr. Smith - as the guys in the ‘pentacle building’ swear by their names. It is interesting that agents Finn have built themselves such a reputation by hunting demons in various exotic locations. It also probably means that US government is deeply involved with the whole demons/magical creatures business, and is well aware of everything that is going on in the covert war between the Slayers and the demons. Finns apparently are very good at compartmentalizing - they both are on Buffy's side , and Sam is actually quite vocal in her support of the Slayers. Yet they work for the secret services ( although Riley's decision to retire makes me believe he realizes how deeply Twilight and Co are embedded with the armed forces). Sam, however, is willing to go back to work if she ever receives a certain phone call. Hopefully she would not have to make a choice to work against Riley at some point in the future!
Moving on. I don't really believe that the military who called agents Finn to the silo were not in the Twilight conspiracy. Technically that means that Riley and Sam were tracked down to Riley's parents’ farm - after he refused to commit to the Twilight's first recruitment call. Then there was a call from the Pentagon (another embedded Twilight agent ?) to the guy 'in charge' of the missile located close to Riley's parents farm, suggesting that they call the Finns to the 'rescue'. The target coordinated were uploaded in to the missile’s computer remotely. From there on it was all technical details - but organizing the flight, the parachute jump, the boat , and another missile with multiple warheads that ‘circled’ the appropriate islet was neatly done - and in the end the Finns were led to a welcoming party inside a very dark cave.

As Riley and Sam take their time to arrive at their destinations, we are also treated to a few intriguing scenes with a different cast of characters. I dare to assume that the church and the crypt inside the church are located in Edinburgh. The scenery is generic enough , but it has the 'feel'. So it can be assumed that this particular sequence of events happens on the night before The Beautiful Sunset in one of the Edinburgh 's many cathedrals.

The almost forgotten balance demon from the beginning of times ( sigh) takes the center stage again. It is almost ultimate knowledge by now that Scott Allie ( my favorite guy at the DH) is responsible for Whistler's reappearance in S8. Kudos to Mr. Allie - the choice was wise and sensible. Whistler was the first known to us agent of the PtBs. He was also the once responsible for bringing Angel out of whatever NY gutter the first ever souled vamp was inhabiting in 1996, cleaning him up ( possibly - with scrubbing bubbles), and bringing him to see Buffy in LA in her junior high school year. It makes a lot of sense to send Whistler back to Angel - this time to convince the heroic and famous champion of good Angel to go back to the gutter and taste the rat again, figuratively speaking. Or, to be more serious, to convince Angel that in order to save the world he needs to ( once again) sacrifice his principles, good name, and reputation and become (and remain for awhile ) the ultimate laughing stock of the verse as well as everybody's favorite punching bag - the hated masked villain also known as Twilight.

The dialog between the two co-conspirators is very humorous - thanks Jane Esperson! - and also very 'in character'. As Angel whines and tries to shirk this new burden, Whistler in a very funny inverted repetition of their original relationship conveys the message that is, on top of being rather depressing to Angel, is also very scary.

"There's this prophecy, the biggest one the powers have ever seen, so that's messing with the math and killing off time-lines."

Which immediately brought to my mind two major still unresolved puzzles : (1) the latest version of the Shanshu prophecy as it was seen at the end of the AtF, and (2) Dark Willow's elaborate scheme of suicide by Buffy that had NOT resulted in the destruction of the Fray time-line. I dare to speculate here that Whistler speaks of the many possible futures being reduced to exactly two major probabilities - two tines of the fork - it is either the bloody end of everything with Angel, the VIP, standing alone over the pile of demonic and human corpses; or the banishing of all demons to an alternative dimension and creation of the Fray future verse in the process.

It looks like Whistler is convinced that the only way for this world to survive the current crisis is for Angel to follow the course he had been following - i.e. to assume the mask and to remain the masked entity while continuing to push Buffy towards her ascension. (If we assume that the original message was delivered by the PtB's 'voices' - as was seen in the preview for the issue 36.) Of course, the question arises if the PtBs indeed know what they are doing, and why the opening of Twilight plane instead of preventing the world's end caused the gates to the demons dimension to open? This is a strange twist indeed - one that caused many to speculate that Whistler might be the bad guy , or that the PtBs themselves are ultimately corrupt and bent on abusing the world in their care.

Somehow I doubt such an explanation though. If only because the moment when the Twilight was opened was followed by a few flash forward frames , in one of which Fray was holding the scythe. So, the opening of the plane had also caused Fray future become reality. My speculation is that the opening of the demon portals was inevitable from some point on, and that Buffy's ascension only caused this to happen earlier rather than later - and when it happened she was there to meet the host with all her glowing superpowers. Which probably means that her refusal to stay on the Twilight plane was also part of the 'master plan'. Or , rather, that that was a gamble on PtB's part, and the ultimate test that Buffy passed with flying colors. Why not tell her? Well, there is always this tricky 'balance' part, the free will clause and the attempt to be fair and not favor one side (Chaos) over the other (Order). Leaving the final and ultimate choice to the selected champion.

Returning back to the plot of the current issue. I can go on describing in detail the setting of the scenes and the exact content of the Angel and Whistler dialog - but you can find plenty of review doing this exactly. What I am interested instead is the analysis of what is being said and how it is setting the mood for the final scene of the episode.

It is important to point out that in my opinion Angel is not siding with Whistler against Buffy. The whole issue he struggles with the idea of continuing with the masked villain plan, and begs to be allowed to find a different path - and the entire subtitle of this issue '

Commitment through Distance , Virtue through Sin' is played out in the final part of the chapter. Whistler insists that the only way Buffy and Angel can save the world together is by being apart at this point in time. Thus the title - and the message appears to be about both couples - Riley and Sam and Angel and Buffy. Even as Riley struggles with idea of coming out of his 'retirement' to help Buffy and save the world by assuming the position of the double agent - Angel struggles with the idea of not telling Buffy the 'whole truth' and remaining the masked villain. (Assuming he later this same morning decides to go see her anyway but finds strength to fight with her instead of confessing everything - Whistler's intervention was very timely indeed.)

The chapter ends on a very sentimental and powerful note too - being played as a counterpoint to the subtitle - Angel is replaying Whistler's words in his mind over Riley's laying on the floor after receiving his ritual scarring of Twilight symbol, even as Sam watches and gives him her moral support. "You have to decide where your loyalty lies... with the girl or with the world". The message seems controversial until one stops and thinks about it. Buffy's life goal has always been saving the world - this is what the Chosen One is supposed to do. Thus there is no controversy. Being loyal to the world means being loyal to this particular girl - who is present in the chapter even when absent - by always being in the minds of the men who love her . And as the subtitle implies loyalty to her lies in accepting Distance and Sin as a sacrifice required to prove Commitment and achieve Virtue.

[Hellbound Hyperion]

Finally read the issue. Been a bit tough - my LCS is moving to a new location across town, so the shop is kind of in disrepair at the moment.

The line about "killing timelines" is so Crisis on Infinite Earths, man. I think I finally understand what the heck Joss is getting at with this story.

Overall, I agree with what's kinda passing for general consensus - Jane's writing was top-notch, Karl's art was not so much - kinda middle-notch. Hardly comparable to his drop-dead-gorgeous Fray stuff.

[buffyfan21]

I really enjoyed this issue. Thanks to Jane's top-notch writing, I heard the voices of Riley and Sam coming through loud and clear. Moline's excellent artistic depictions of the characters was an added bonus in contributing to the "realism" of this story. I really felt for Riley and Sam here. Riley, wanting to leave his military, demon-hunting life behind, settle down with Sam and start a family - a nice quiet life. Sam, who pretends to want the same things Riley does (and deep down does), but at the same time she is not ready to give up the mission. Gee, sound like anybody else we know? And the funny thing is, they both secretly want the same thing. The fact is, both are on the same page and they don't even realize it; both reluctant to give up the "big picture."

And of course Riley decides to help Buffy in the end, because even though he loves Sam and I believe is happy with her, a part of him will always care deeply for Buffy. Sam sees this and she accepts it. Speaking of Sam, have to say I'm really glad she didn't bite the big one, which is honestly what I was expecting. Throughout the issue I really found myself rooting for these two and wanting to see them make it work and be happy.

I gotta say it was a surprise to see Whistler, that I wasn't expecting. Though I am still confused about the details of all that. Will definitely take a couple more reads I think, but all and all a great way to bring "Buffy" back after such a looong (and unbearable) hiatus. - Superb writing, superb art, etc. Overall, I have always liked Riley's character, so I think it's great that he gets his chance to "shine" in the verse.

Now can't wait for the final arc to kick off in just a few short days.

[wenxina]

Still haven't read this, but I must say that I'm glad to hear (figuratively speaking) that Sam didn't get relegated to yet another woman in the refrigerator. Nice that there are motivations more mature than simple vengeance that drove Riley to do what he did.

[riker]

Wow, I can't believe I've encountered someone who doesn't like Jo Chen's covers, Emmie! It sounds like you'd prefer a photo cover of Marc Blucas rather than Jo Chen's stylized take on Riley. Personally, I think her style is great, and I wish she could do the interior art as well.

[Emmie]

Riker, I do like Chen's covers. I just have concrit analysis about them also. The main reason I write concrit is because the summation of responses to Chen's covers is "OMG AWESOME". I like having conversations about this. There's a difference between a blanket review (love it! hate it!) and constructive criticism. I consider mine the latter. I pretty much always buy Chen's covers and I really enjoy looking at them, but I also have things to say about the art and the messages therein.

I'm perplexed why you're focusing on Marc Blucas when my concrit was largely about how Sam's character had been turned into a Dominatrix Secret Spy Barbie. The idealized versions of women in Chen's comics continue to annoy me because she gives them all unnatural breast enhancement. It sends a bad message to women about body image and I don't think there's any defense for it.