AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on Apr 30, 2010 5:57:19 GMT -5
We've seen Buffy go to her death in Season 1, making a sacrifice because it's the right thing to do. But is her death in Season 5 really a sacrifice, or is it her way out?
Every time I watch The Gift I start to think about this due to the look on Buffy's face when she has the flashback to the First Slayer saying "Death is your gift." It's not a look of fear or determination, it's a look of acceptance, peace and even a little hope. Like she sees a way out that also helps to save her sister, friends, oh and of course the world.
I'm not trying to lessen her death in any way and really, if it is a suicide, can you blame her? Look at what she's suffered through over the previous five years. And with just recently losing her mum and the pain of the previous few months it would be little surprise that she would want a way out.
Just something to think about.
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Post by Eric on Apr 30, 2010 22:25:10 GMT -5
Evert time I watch The Gift I start to think about this due to the look on Buffy's face when she has the flashback to the First Slayer saying "Death is your gift." It's not a look of fear or determination, it's a look of acceptance, peace and even a little hope. Like she sees a way out that also helps to save her sister, friends, oh and of course the world. I think the "look of acceptance, peace and even a little hope" was because she realized that death being her gift isn't her causing the deaths of her loved ones, like she thought, but saving them with her death. While I don't doubt that she often thought about her own death as being a way out before this, but I don't think that was on her mind when she jumped.
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Post by Inappropriate Starches on Apr 30, 2010 22:47:21 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree, I don't think that what she was thinking about was 'now it's over'. I think officially it was a sacrificial suicide, as of course she did kill herself, even if for the greater good. In general though, I think she was curious and maybe even occationally longed for it, but in that moment I think she was happy that she did her job, she did it well and now her friends and family were safe.
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Darth Rosie
Ensouled Vampire
I do doodle
Keeper of Didacity [? Astray][Mo0:12]
Posts: 1,392
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Post by Darth Rosie on May 5, 2010 6:31:10 GMT -5
This is a very interesting question, which I have spinning in my mind time and again. "Every slayer has a death wish", said Spike in Fool for Love, and Buffy realized there was something to that.
As to her friends and family being safe ... well. For the moment, yes. Buffy saved the world, again. On the other hand, her dying meant that - as long as Faith lived (and she was in prison at the time) - there would be no slayer around. On the tower, this was not a moment to consider all the consequences of the sacrificial suicide, but if you think it through, this was not a very wise decision considered in the long run.
Hmm.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on May 5, 2010 7:06:02 GMT -5
I think that on that tower, she was happy she got a good reason to off herself. Otherwise she wouldn't have done it. She might have thought about it before, but probably stopped immediatly, since she had to take care of Dawn (and not to make her friends sad, but probably mainly Dawn). But on that tower, to take care of Dawn, she had to kill herself.
Probably seemed like a sweet deal for her. Not one should would be proud off, but still. Hopefully I'm wrong, and she's a tougher person than I thought, but I don't know, without Dawn, she might have let herself go. I definitly think there's a a big chance that if the rest of her friends had died too, she would have killed herself. I doubt she's that tough.
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on May 5, 2010 10:15:17 GMT -5
I was definitely a selfish, suicidial moment, as well as a heroic self-sacrifice. That's foreshadowed all throughout the season, especially in "Fool for Love";
"That final gasp. That look of peace. Part of you is desperate to know: What's it like? Where does it lead you? And now you see, that's the secret. Not the punch you didn't throw or the kicks you didn't land. Every Slayer... has a death wish. Even you."
Buffy's death was her gift to the world, but also the world's gift to her; she was finally free, that was her reward. That's why season six was so horrific for her; her gift was taken away from her.
A lot of people think "The Gift" would have been the perfect season finale, but I think that element of selfishness was the wrong note to go out on. Don't get me wrong, it's brilliant characterisation, but I don't want the final statement of the show to be "being a strong woman is too hard, it's better to kill yourself." Buffy's arc in season six made her a stronger, more admirable character because she rejected death and kept fighting.
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TheDancingSlayer
Potential Slayer
Why don't just run for a shorter distance?[Mo0:16]
Posts: 109
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Post by TheDancingSlayer on May 5, 2010 16:32:24 GMT -5
Yes, I agree with everyone else here. I think once she realized what she had to do, she was happy that she would die saving the world and her friends. Not like some slayers before her time that would probably get killed on patrol in a cemetery with no friends to help them. I would write more, but I have to get to school!
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tkts
Rogue Demon Hunter
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 439
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Post by tkts on May 5, 2010 21:48:45 GMT -5
A lot of people think "The Gift" would have been the perfect season finale, but I think that element of selfishness was the wrong note to go out on. Don't get me wrong, it's brilliant characterisation, but I don't want the final statement of the show to be "being a strong woman is too hard, it's better to kill yourself." Except I really don't think the message is "Being a strong woman is too hard." We have five seasons' worth of evidence that Buffy really doesn't have a problem with that. Her problem is "having the fate of the entire world rest on your shoulders right after finding your mother dead in your living room and being the only thing standing between your little sister and this god from the bitch dimension that wants to shove her in some kind of lock and give her a good twirl." Which is a hell of a lot for anyone to deal with. Buffy's strong, but she's also human. It's what makes her such a compelling hero. And wanting on some level to escape from the situations that Season 5 thrust her into is a very human reaction.
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gumgnome
Junior Vampire Slayer
Who has got the button?
Get out of my BRAIN![Mo0:1]
Posts: 970
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Post by gumgnome on May 6, 2010 4:46:58 GMT -5
I agree with Paul, and hadn't really considered this before. I agree that her death is a gift to herself as well as others, but it's also a cookie moment for Buffy. At that point, I think she does consider herself to be 'baked', because she considers her duty to the world and the others to be fulfilled. She clearly makes this point in "Afterlife":
"And I was warm ... and I was loved ... and I was finished."
Her struggle in S6 is, as Paul says, a struggle with the fact that she needs to piece everything together again after feeling like she had already done everything that she was meant to do.
By the end of S7, she realises that life has more to offer her still and that she is, once again, unfinished. This very life-affirming mentality is a nice way to finish the show.
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Silver
Potential Slayer
Done & Dusted[Mo0:3]
Posts: 154
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Post by Silver on May 8, 2010 16:09:53 GMT -5
I always thought of it as sacrifice but this time it was more personal. Before (S1 against the Master) it was for the world and her friends etc. This time it was more for Dawn than anything else. From not wanting to know her to accepting that she's her sister and than taking her place when it comes to death. That's what I call a sacrifice.
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Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on May 9, 2010 5:41:56 GMT -5
Its sacrifice,Buffy always sacrifice herself to save everyone that's why she was stated warrior of the people. The flashback probable give Buffy more courage and determination too jump into the barrier to her death..
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tkts
Rogue Demon Hunter
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 439
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Post by tkts on May 9, 2010 21:14:42 GMT -5
I always thought of it as sacrifice but this time it was more personal. Before (S1 against the Master) it was for the world and her friends etc. This time it was more for Dawn than anything else. I'd argue that her first sacrifice, in battle against the Master, was personal as well. When it seemed abstract -- that she would fight the Master to save the world, and die in the process -- she rebelled, decided she wasn't going to do it. What convinced her was seeing how shaken up Willow was after discovering the dead guys in the A/V room. In a very real sense, I think she was sacrificing herself for Willow.
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AngelFaith
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
I rolled the bones. You for me.
My forgottendreamer[Mo0:12]
Posts: 641
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Post by AngelFaith on May 9, 2010 22:04:11 GMT -5
When it seemed abstract -- that she would fight the Master to save the world, and die in the process -- she rebelled, decided she wasn't going to do it. What convinced her was seeing how shaken up Willow was after discovering the dead guys in the A/V room. In a very real sense, I think she was sacrificing herself for Willow. That's an interesting intepretation, and it does kind of fit. However, I always just saw Willow as the catalyst, especially when she says the line "It wasn't our world. They made it theirs. And they had fun." I think that hit Buffy hard, because she realised that if she didn't go to the Master he would make their world his, and she couldn't live with that, knowing that she could have stopped it. And then she gets there and finds out that she's the Master's way out - God, I feel for her there! She's gone, thinking this is the right thing to do, this is the way she'll save everyone, when in fact, she's the cause. Devastating. So yeah, her first death, definitely a sacrifice. Still think her second death was motivated in part by wanting a way out.
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bthomas
Innocent Bystander
The Art of Slaying: A Buffy Retrospective[Mo0:0]
Posts: 34
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Post by bthomas on May 19, 2010 7:44:55 GMT -5
I definitely have to go with sacrifice. She was trying to save her "sister" and friends and do her duty to save the world. I think she figured it was her time and made peace with it knowing that another slayer would arrive to keep her friends and family safe.
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