Do We Get This?

[midwesternwatcher]

I'm reading "Why Buffy Matters," by Rhonda Wilcox. Here's what she says on p. 18: "In Buffy's world, the problems teenagers face become literal monsters. Internet predators are demons; drink-doctoring frat boys have sold their souls for success in the business world; a girl who has sex with even the nicest-seeming male discovers that he afterwards becomes a monster. From the earliest episodes, it was apparent to attentive viewers that Buffy operated on a symbolic level."

What do you guys think of that?

If you say something like that to a non-believer, at least if you're me, you can expect dismissal or ridicule. Even people who have never seen the show seem absolutely certain that it can't possible "operate on a symbolic level," that anybody who thinks it does is making things up, and that most rank-and-file viewers see nothing symbolic or metaphorical in the show at all.

This board is the best place I know to connect with rank-and-file fans. What do you guys think?

[Scarygothgirl]

I read something simelar in a pyschology journal once. I think there are some definate metaphors in the Buffyverse. For example the magic-drug addiction Willow deals with, and definately the internet chatroom guy who turns out to be a demon in the internet. There seem to be a lot of these in the earlier seasons, but they kind of peter out after season threeish I think. Unless anyone can think of any metaphors other than the drugs one from seasons four-seven?

[Astray]

I think the metaphors in Buffy are actually quite obvious, sometimes to the point of being detrimental; I'm thinking of "Beer Bad" and Willow's magic addiction playing into drug addiction. Honestly, fan or not, I think the metaphorical content is undeniable and at times painfully transparent.

[Scarygothgirl]

The journal I read said something about how teenagers watching see Buffy overcoming the demons and that encourages them to overcome their own issues in real life.

[outofphase]

Totally. When I introduced the show to my friend (who is so logical minded he might as well be spock) I told him to accept it as a narrative and you'll see the awesomeness. After 4 hours he was hooked. There's an insane amount of subtext within Buffy. The writers even directly acknowledge the metaphors on dvd extras/commentaries/interviews ect.

The metaphorical awesomeness of Buffy leaves other shows feelin like popcorn to me.

[Scarygothgirl]

It's somethiing I quite like. It means you can immerse yourself fully in this world with vampires and demons and slayers, whilst at the same time npot losing touch with reality. 'cos I like to get lost in different worlds, and reality has a habit of slipping away. Programmes in the real world are just stressful 'cos you don't lose yourself at all.

[The Girl In Question]

One of my favorite things about this show is all the layers. I think most of the metaphors are pretty obvious, but a lot of people don't have that type of thinking. I have a friend who is really intelligent, but who isn't very good at getting metaphor, so she completely missed out on it when she watched Buffy (she still loves it though). It's too bad when people miss out on that aspect of the show, though, because it's one of the greatest things about it IMO.

[AngelFaith]

I have always loved the metaphors and subtext on Buffy and (like a previous poster mentioned) I hate it when people refuse to give the show a chance because they just don't believe me when I start raving about the symbolism and intelligence of the show.

My favourite metaphor was Angel losing his soul. I thought that one was just so perfect, because it was such a new and interesting way to portray the whole "Sleep with a boy he turns into a jerk" storyline.

My least favourite was Beer Bad. Drink beer turn caveman. Not good. I really think it was the show's weakest metaphor.

[midwesternwatcher]

About metaphors in the later seasons ...

First, we continue metaphors from the earlier seasons. We still have vampires, and the hellmouth reappears in season 7. We even learn more about these metaphors. Vampires were more vicious and more powerful in the old days than they are now (true), and the hellmouth can be opened by shedding blood and closed by shedding tears (true).

BTW, the vampire is a metaphor for ... and the hellmouth is a metaphor for ...

I know what I'd put in the blanks, but I won't learn anything by me talking. What do you guys say a vampire or a hellmouth is a metaphor for?

Now some new metaphors.

The first thing that comes to mind is Willow threatening to "end the world" after Tara dies in season 6. That's a metaphor for threatening suicide.

And the First Evil, which has no body, works only by suggestion, can appear only in the form of someone who has died, that had better be a metaphor. Again, I have my own way of explaining it, but I'd like to hear what other people say.

In Season 4, and season 1 of Angel which was concurrent, we have "The Initiative" and "Wolfram & Hart." What do they represent? When Angel takes his elevator ride down and down, to the home office of W&H, that's a metaphor too.

And Glory is a metaphor.

I'm at a hotspot, place is closing, gotta go. I pass the ball.

[bthomas]

I think what the author says here is right on. Each of the things Buffy faces in the series is a metaphor for something every teenager at some point might experience. That is what makes it so good.

[buffyfan21]

It's true that there is a lot of metaphor in the demons and supernatural element of the show, but this is something I actually really like about it. I think it makes the show unique and special, in that way. I see the use of metaphor and subtext not as a detriment, but as a real strength of the show. I like Buffy's ability to "think outside the box," so to speak. And I really like the places the show was able to get to using all these demons and monsters as metaphors for real life situations that we face every day. The amazing thing is that even with all of that the show is still so relatable and I think that's really special. Because, although the monsters and other supernatural stuff is cool, in the end it is really about these characters that you know and love just trying to get through life and do the best they can with each day.

[jtmaster13]

I think part of the reason why the show was so successful was because it was based on so many metaphors. Metaphors for sex, addiction, death, monsters, as well as others. I think those metaphors is what can help the viewers relate to certain characters or the storyline. They can watch an episode and be able to say, "Hey, I can relate to that" or, "I know exactly how it feels." That's what makes the show so powerful and moving, everyone can relate to it in some way.

[drusillacakes]

To add to this, sometimes they stepped back from the metaphors and took the literal route, which is equally as powerful. Season 6 for example--

Mortgage? Flooded basement? Child services threatening to take away your sister? Feeling like nobody gets you? Working in a dead-end job? Sleeping with the "enemy"? I could go on... The lack of metaphor in that season made it interesting to observe Buffy not as the slayer, but as a woman dealing with real life issues. Of course, she had to come back from the dead first, so that in itself is a metaphor I suppose but you get my meaning I think.

[jtmaster13]

Sept 15, 2010 14:46:24 GMT -5 drusillacakes said:

To add to this, sometimes they stepped back from the metaphors and took the literal route, which is equally as powerful. Season 6 for example--

Mortgage? Flooded basement? Child services threatening to take away your sister? Feeling like nobody gets you? Working in a dead-end job? Sleeping with the "enemy"? I could go on... The lack of metaphor in that season made it interesting to observe Buffy not as the slayer, but as a woman dealing with real life issues. Of course, she had to come back from the dead first, so that in itself is a metaphor I suppose but you get my meaning I think.

That is a very true statement and I agree. Season 6 was so different because it took the literal route, which I thought was intriguing. I didn't mind season 6 so much, it was very dark, but it was real.

[tkts]

Interestingly, the series' varied use of metaphor has led to some criticism.

I'd argue, personally, that it's entirely possible for an author to use the same situation as a metaphor for two different things, without necessarily saying those things are equivalent. However, the use of magic in Season 4 as a metaphor for sexuality between Willow and Tara, and then in Season 6 as a metaphor for drugs, has caused some people to attribute homophobic motives to the creators. Taking what was a metaphor for two women's sexual relationship with each other and then using the same thing as a metaphor for addiction, the argument goes, creates the implication that homosexuality is a destructive force.

I don't buy the argument, personally, but I've seen it made.

[Silver]

I think it became popular to young people, not only becuase it is great fantasy entertainment, because they could relate to the problems that they face in their lives such as sex, drugs and drink and thatthey are very real monsters.

Older people such as myself could see some of the messages that that the shows gave out. And not to criticise it as we had been through very same problems when we were young, and believe me they still exist even when you get older.

Whether it was intended to be like that only the creators like Joss can say, but I think all he wanted was to entertain in a different way.

[Scarygothgirl]

^^ I don't think it's that they were trying to link the gay relationship with the drugs in the metaphors. I think it was more that they used magic as a metaphor for the gay relationship, and then gradually they used the magic less and started portraying the relationship by actually showing the relationship. The writers then figured they could use the magic as a metaphor for something else now that they had come to the end of the gay relationship metaphor.

[jtmaster13]

Sept 17, 2010 18:05:46 GMT -5 Scarygothgirl said:

^^ I don't think it's that they were trying to link the gay relationship with the drugs in the metaphors. I think it was more that they used magic as a metaphor for the gay relationship, and then gradually they used the magic less and started portraying the relationship by actually showing the relationship. The writers then figured they could use the magic as a metaphor for something else now that they had come to the end of the gay relationship metaphor.

that is exactly true. very well said

[tkts]

Sept 17, 2010 19:02:49 GMT -5 jtmaster13 said:

Sept 17, 2010 18:05:46 GMT -5 Scarygothgirl said:

^^ I don't think it's that they were trying to link the gay relationship with the drugs in the metaphors. I think it was more that they used magic as a metaphor for the gay relationship, and then gradually they used the magic less and started portraying the relationship by actually showing the relationship. The writers then figured they could use the magic as a metaphor for something else now that they had come to the end of the gay relationship metaphor.

that is exactly true. very well said

Unfortunately, every once in a while you'll come across someone who is desperate for an excuse to be offended.

[bthomas]

Sept 17, 2010 18:05:46 GMT -5 Scarygothgirl said:

^^ I don't think it's that they were trying to link the gay relationship with the drugs in the metaphors. I think it was more that they used magic as a metaphor for the gay relationship, and then gradually they used the magic less and started portraying the relationship by actually showing the relationship. The writers then figured they could use the magic as a metaphor for something else now that they had come to the end of the gay relationship metaphor.

I don't think that magic was a metaphor for the gay relationship at all. I think the relationship was just using magic as the catalyst is all. To me magic was a drug metaphor out right. it was like saying using alcohol in moderation is fine, but in excess leads to problems in all areas... friendships, relationships, school work, etc. It was beautifully done.