Did Buffy Come Back Wrong?

[midwesternwatcher]

I'm watching "Dead Things" now. I just saw Buffy ask Tara if she (Buffy) came back from the dead wrong.

I know Tara is going to say "not so wrong" or "not so different" more nearly, but I find I'm very tempted to believe that she did actually come back wrong.

I'd like an exchange of views on this.

[Inappropriate Starches]

Well what Tara tells her is that it's on a basic molecular level, and just enough to confuse Spike's chip. Now if you think about in the sense of how depressed she is, you could say that it's at least partially the molecular difference that makes her that way I suppose. However I don't think that's the case, at the very least I don't think we're intended to think she did.

Buffy's depression in the season is very clearly from being removed from Heaven, and that is sort of a metaphor for growing up and the depression that often comes with it. I don't think she came back wrong, I think she came back as her but she had a lot to deal with. I can see how it would be open for interpretation but I think the sixth season is just about the hard times and choices you have to make when growing up. Willow became very depressed through her addiction and what she lost and she never died and came back, so I don't know if Buffy's actions have anything to do with that. Though clearly she wants them to be, which is understandable since she already had a hard life, but had never been depressed in that way before.

[joxerlives]

No, she came back as the girl we all loved but she had been through a terrible ordeal and needed time to heal

[Josh]

Yeah, other than the molecular change that messed up Spike's chip she didn't come back wrong. I think anyone who's boyfriend ran out on them yet again, who's mom died, then a couple months later they died trying to save their sister from a hell god, and then after spending 3 months in heaven was resurrected and left in their coffin to dig out of their own grave in a city that is being overrun by a gang of demons has a pretty big right to grieve and be depressed for quite some time.

[jtmaster13]

Yeah, I'm gonna say she never really came back wrong aside from the whole molecular change. Her whole attitude during the season was based more from the fact that she was pulled out of heaven than anything

[midwesternwatcher]

Just to stir things up ... this question is not rhetorical, I don't have an answer ...

If you go through a series of big, negative changes, doesn't that do harm? Does the harm ever go away? Maybe we don't have to think the magic went awry to say "Buffy came back wrong."

[afterthebattle]

No, she didn't come back wrong. She just wished she did so she had an excuse for sleeping with Spike.

[tkts]

I always figured Tara's "deep tropical cellular tan" explanation was the right one.

However, it makes the technology behind Spike's chip all the more impressive if it not just detects his own intentions, but also is somehow able to sense the nature of the entities around him in such detail.

[midwesternwatcher]

Remember that Buffy was puzzled by what Tara told her. It seemed she wanted to think something was wrong with her.

She must've had a gut feeling that something was wrong, with her or with the world or both. Remember "came back from the grave much graver" (Anya in OMWF).

In "Dead Things," she lets her friends move away, then climbs up to the balcony of the bronze where she meets Spike, remember? "You belong here in the darkness, with me," he says. At point she must've believed him.

[Randi Giles]

I think she wanted something to be wrong with her to excuse the things she was doing with Spike. She didn't want to believe that she could go into a dark place out of her own free will. Buffy died as a hero and went to heaven. To get sucked out that back to the life, which she considered was hell at the time, is bound to screw you up a little. And Spike really didn't help much either. Which brings me to why my opinions of Riley changed over time. All it really took was for him to say that she was stronger than what she was doing. Willow and others were to close so it was good for someone on the outside looking in to tell Buffy what she needed to hear.

Even though at the time I hated it cause it ruin my Spuffy.

[tkts]

Oct 13, 2010 14:28:00 GMT -5 Randi Giles said:

I think she wanted something to be wrong with her to excuse the things she was doing with Spike. She didn't want to believe that she could go into a dark place out of her own free will.

I don't know about saying she wanted an excuse. That would be somewhat inconsistent with her begging Tara not to absolve her of guilt. (Of course, who says she can't be a little inconsistent?)

I definitely think it's broader than just the Spike thing.

For an analogy, imagine this. You've been suffering from constant, crippling headaches. You can't enjoy your life because of the pain; sometimes you can barely get out of bed. And you start to think maybe that's just the way it is.

The one day, a friend tells you about a disease that can cause crippling headaches. You think you might have this disease. Your spirits start to rise. Why? Because even though nobody particularly wants to have a disease, in many ways a diagnosis would be a relief. First, because you would actually know what's going wrong; second, because many diseases can be cured.

What's your reaction going to be if you find out you don't have this disease at all -- that maybe living with crippling pain every day is just something you're going to have to deal with the rest of your life?

That's sort of the physical equivalent of what Buffy's going through.

At the same time as she thinks about whether she "came back wrong," something like this is probably in the back of her mind: Maybe I feel this way because something went wrong with Willow's spell. That would mean that it's not just me. And if something went wrong because of the magic, then maybe Tara can find a magical way to fix it.

[Scarygothgirl]

I think she certainly came back different. Or else how would the first have been able to take her image? When she died and came back to life in season one she was very much alive when she came back, so the first would not have been able to take her image. But when she came back in season six it was less that she was alive again, more that she was a living dead person with slayer powers. Thus with her being living dead the first could take her form and Spike could hurt her without his chip activating.

[VampSlayer]

Oct 14, 2010 16:01:47 GMT -5 Scarygothgirl said:

I think she certainly came back different. Or else how would the first have been able to take her image? When she died and came back to life in season one she was very much alive when she came back, so the first would not have been able to take her image. But when she came back in season six it was less that she was alive again, more that she was a living dead person with slayer powers. Thus with her being living dead the first could take her form and Spike could hurt her without his chip activating.

You don't have to be currently dead for The First to take your image. If you died, even for a split second, it can take your appearance. For example, Warren was killed in Season Six, but Amy brought him back to life moments after his death. In Season Seven, though, The First appears as Warren, when Warren is still currently living. I'm not sure if that's what you were talking about, but if it was, I don't think you had the facts straight. Or I'm wrong, which I don't think is so. (Sorry, that sounded kinda snotty, didn't it? xD Not my intentions!)

As for this thread topic: Buffy came back different. Buffy didn't come back wrong.

In my mind, those are two completely separate things.

[midwesternwatcher]

That bit about Warren having died for an instant and them Amy saved him? That was Joss backpedaling, to explain the continuity error. He admits he just forgot.

Good point though ... it never occurred to me that Buffy's two deaths might be different, in terms of The First being able to take her form. I can imagine a story in which that point might be crucial.

The idea of "changing on a molecular level" has always bothered me. If you change a molecule in a human body, then that molecule isn't going to work right, or so I would think. If you changed many molecules, you'd kill a cell, if not an organ or the whole body.

How does this sound ... whether or not you like to say "Buffy came back wrong," it was wrong that she came back, and her being in this world after having been dead is wrong, so all her relationships, not only to people but even to things like food and clothing, are wrong. What is there about her that is not wrong?

When she goes with Spike, whether or not for sex, she's retreating from the world, where she doesn't belong and feels it, to a place where she feels less out of place. When Spike says, "you belong here in the darkness with me," there's a lot of truth in what he says. I'm pretty sure he isn't lying. He believes what he says, and she believes him to some degree. I think we are supposed to think about this and find at least partial truth in what he says.

This isn't for prime time, I'm sort of thinking out loud. I'd appreciate some help.

[Miss. Rogueh]

I think she did come back wrong, not in the sense of anything besides molecular level, however. You can't just bring a dead person back to life, you have to re-animate them, so Buffy is no longer alive, she is just re-animated, Spike's chip only goes off if he is going to harm a living thing...

[midwesternwatcher]

I'm not sure what a demon-oriented molecule is, but in a show full of vampires and ghosts and whatever, we can't be too scientific.

A couple of thoughts.

Maybe I put the question incorrectly. Suppose I ask, "Did Buffy come back right?" Could she possibly come back as a natural person from such an unnatural experience? Can a person who has been resurrected possibly fit in with her old friends again?