What are the Wolf, Ram and Hart?

[Emmie]

I was just rewatching 'Reprise' and the scene about the Home Office being here on Earth. I was thinking to myself this time "Well duh, evil is here on Earth and people aren't perfect" and yes the home office is Earth because this was where the Wolf, Ram and Hart are from originally according to Illyria.

The Wolf, Ram and Hart are demons, right? Pure demons? If so, then according to the Buffyverse mythos the pure demons were run out of this dimension ages ago. So where are the Wolf, Ram and Hart now?

The demon conducting the review in 'Reprise' came from some other dimension and Angel's original plan was to use the ring to go to the other dimension where the Home Office is and kill the Wolf, Ram and Hart. When he was told the Home Office was here on Earth he got all depressed and suicidal about the fact that 'woo evil is here on Earth inside every one of us'.

BUT the point was killing the Wolf, Ram and Hart. Just because they're not here on Earth doesn't mean they're not out there pulling all the evil strings. It makes me wonder if he wasn't right in wanting to follow the reviewer back to wherever he came from to kill WRH.

The way I see it, the WRH have had millennia to recruit followers, to consolidate their influence and power. Illyria said they used to be lower than the vampire, so are they really that powerful in terms of being demons (like Illyria pre-Time Bomb) or is it the organization that makes them powerful? Are they actually hard to kill physically or are they just hard to get to in order to kill them?

Angel took down the Circle of the Black Thorn to stop the Apocalypse WRH and they retaliated by creating Hell-A. He fought the symptom of evil from the Senior Partners, but why shouldn't he focus on going after them and cutting off the head of the evil organization?

"To kill Wolfram and Hart, don't let them make you play their game. Make them play yours." - Lindsey 'Dead End'. He always had the greatest insight into them.

That was the problem with Angel being caught up in running the LA office during Season 5 and isn't he still playing by their rules in Hell-A? They've created this world and he's stuck in it. They've made him human here.

Ultimately, I want Angel to go after the Senior Partners and I think that might be possible if the gang put energy into finding them.

Question is - are they really that powerful or can they be killed like any other demon?

[El Diablo Robotico]

Heh, you've thought a little more deeply about this than I have.

I'm gonna straddle the fence and say that they're probably somewhere in between the two options on the poll. They're not the "purest, most powerful evil", because in the Buffy/Angel-verse, that honor would seem to go to the First Evil. But I think they (the Senior Partners) are more than just uber-powerful demons, because everything that's ever been said about them indicates that they can't ever be defeated, because, like the FE, a large part of their power--maybe even a large part of their very existence--comes from the evil impulses that make up humans (and demons, too) on our plane of existence. The Senior Partners aren't Evil Incarnate themselves (again, that would be the First Evil), but they're evil's facilitators. They make the gears keep turning, and ensure that evil keeps rolling merrily along.

The existence of God has never been established one way or another in the Buffy-verse, but if he does exist, then the Powers That Be would probably be classified as being one step below Him. The ones charged with doing His bidding and stopping evil in our world in all it's forms. So the Senior Partners would probably be the Powers' opposite numbers, one notch below the First Evil. More than demon, but still not at the top of the evil "food chain".

[Spike]

To my understanding.....

Back in the days of the old ones there were 3 deamons, The Wolf, The Ram, and The Hart, these demons were weak and as said by Illyria were lower down than the Vampires, when the old ones were banished from earth the Wolf, Ram and Hart also left.

On our world the Wolf Ram and Hart still had some power and it seems that they thrive on evil, the evil thats inside everyone and the same evil that makes the world a bad place. They used there influence to create a law firm known as Wolfram & Hart, and they would be known as "The Senior Partners" as a law firm they could minipulate socioty making sure evil is kept out there, as a law firm they defend deamons, murderers, rapists and all evil doers making sure there still able to commit there acts of evil.

Despite not been in our world a group of people known as "The Circle Of Black Thorn" was created to do there bidding, these are the people that really run Wolfram & Hart, apparently a Wolfram & Hart employee messed up and he was forced to eat his own liver as punishment.

The Senior Partners have also demanded loyalty from there employees such as Linwood who they made sacrifice his children. Also when the employees sign there contracts they are signing away there souls.

The other goal of Wolfram & Hart is the apocolypse, dispite ther been many apocolypse's in the Angel/Buffyverse the Senior Partners have there own apocolypse in mind to which the law firm is also used to shift everything in motion to bring forth this apocolypse in which Angel is supposed to be a major player.

Angel the TV series finished while we were still learning about the Senior Partners, but despite not been here on Earth they still have alot of power over it as seen at the end of series 5 when they sent all the demon armys to LA and in the comics where it appears as though LA has been sucked into a hell dimension.

I think the Senior Partners are just pure evil, maybe not as powerful as the first but like the first it is manifested by evil and as long as there is evil there will be the Senior Partners.

Thats what Ive gathered anyway, and its taken me watching season 1-5 multiple times to work that one out.

[Whedon Fan]

I wrote a fan fic about all of this, where Team Angel do go p agains them. Well the Senior Partners aka The Wolf Ram And Hart. And as we found out alot in season 5 there are seperate branches of wolfram and hart all over the world, we saw the Italy, Rome branch in 'the girl in question' so my theroy was if you destroy every branch/building of wolfrram and hart then the senior partners will fade away into nothing but a bad memory.

[henzINNIT]

They're demons that blend in perfectly to the real world....

One's a set of saloon doors, one is a yo yo, and the other is an execise bike.

[themaleslayer]

Maybe demons, idk. But no demon is more powerful than The First