You're so gay.

[Kara]

Okay so I was talking to some people about the term : "You're so gay." and other slang statements using gay to describe being odd, weird, strange ect.

I personally have used it alot. It's more of a habit and I've never really been thought of as a bad person for saying it. I just see it a slang and didn't think of it as being offensive towards homosexuals.

After talking to someone who was gay and finding out it upset him it got me to thinking about how our society uses it without really thinking about how it effects those that are in fact gay.

I would like to know what everyone feels about it. I realize this could be a touchy subject so I'm just gonna ask everyone to be mature and respectful towards everyone else about it.

[Mayor Of F♥ckville]

I don't mind it.

[Iceeh★]

Personally, I find the term offensive. People should try to snip it out of their vocabularies. Whatever happened to nonoffensive words like 'lame' and 'silly'?

[Mayor Of F♥ckville]

Maybe gay people should say "that's so straight"

[Jsebold87]

I admit that I used this term quite a bit in High School, my then best friend got me hooked on using the term. I don't know why it was so popular. I didn't mean it in an offensive term, it was more of a filler word for 'weird'. I think most people don't mean it offensively, if it's done in a joking way, but I can see how some people would find it offensive.

[slayerfest]

Yes I think it is offensive. When it is being misused, it is usually used to describe or imply something or a situation in a negative light. I think those people (who are usually teens and under who use it that way) think it is okay cause it's another word for lame, whack, or whatever the cool slang word is today. But it's not. It's like saying being gay is lame or just something not to be taken seriously with, like it is a phase or a choice. I think it also sets a bad example for really young kids who hear their older siblings or friends use it this way, being associated with something negative, who don't exactly know what it means in the first place, thus picking it up and continuing this cycle. Not to go off track, but it's similar to using the 'N' word. For a long time in U.S. history, the 'N' word has been used to associate black people in a derogatory way. It's just a shame how it's used today in the black community, especially in rap lyrics. Like the whole Imus scandal awhile back. He was saying it like it meant nothing, just another "cool" thing to say, probably not knowing how negatively rooted it was in the past. Again, same problem here, young kids listen to rap and look up to rappers and don't even realize what they're saying, thinking it's just harmless part of the norm, but don't realize it is rooted from centuries of hate and suppression. So to sum up, yes I think it is VERY offensive.

[Emmie]

Oct 18, 2008 22:35:05 GMT -5 slayerfest said:

Not to go off track, but it's similar to using the 'N' word. For a long time in U.S. history, the 'N' word has been used to associate black people in a derogatory way. It's just a shame how it's used today in the black community, especially in rap lyrics. Like the whole Imus scandal awhile back. He was saying it like it meant nothing, just another "cool" thing to say, probably not knowing how negatively rooted it was in the past. Again, same problem here, young kids listen to rap and look up to rappers and don't even realize what they're saying, thinking it's just harmless part of the norm, but don't realize it is rooted from centuries of hate and suppression.

I have to disagree. If they were unaware of the centuries of hate and oppression behind the word, why is it offensive for a white person to use the word? I think it's the opposite - they are extremely aware of the "N" word as a racial slur and are using language to try to transform it's meaning. That the use of the "N" word by parts of black culture is actually a re-appropriation of the word to strip it of it's negative connotation and give it new meaning.

"What's up my <insert N word here>?" is very similar in structure to "What's up my brother?"

I'd argue that this use is not out of ignorance. It's similar to how girls who are friends call each other "bitca" - it strips the word of it's negative connotation and gives it new meaning. These two negative words occupy a liminal state in the evolution of language - their meanings are changing simply because people are choosing to give these words new meaning in order to counter the original negative epithet.

But to be on topic for this thread, calling something gay is not an attempt to transform the word and give it a positive connotation. It's most similar to calling something "retarded" in the sense that it's meant to reflect negatively on the subject.

Frankly, it is offensive and a slur. Sometimes people aren't always wearing their conscientious hats and use the terms without thinking of who it may hurt.

[darkdahlia]

its offensive, but not because of the normal reason. I find it offensive because thats not what the word means, and its sad that people can't find ONE WORD that means how they feel.


It makes you sound common.

And the idea of having gays say "thats so straight" is like when people tell me "well when people say n igger(a) just call them a cracker"..............................................


.............................

not the same thing lol

[Skytteflickan88]

Oct 18, 2008 22:08:50 GMT -5 Mayor Of F♥ckville said:

Maybe gay people should say "that's so straight"

I could see myself using that.

"God, think outside of the box, you're so boring. You're so straight."

[matthewblake]

When I hear people say something is gay, when they mean stupid or weird, it makes them look very unintelligent to me. It's scary how many people say it without realizing it. Even my mom referred to her place of employment as being gay! I told her she sounded like an idiot child.

[darkdahlia]

I think its a confusing evolution of our language because queer is considered a term defining homosexuality, but the original definition was something that was weird or odd.

interesting to think about.

kind of like how hysteria meant the ailment of a wondering uterus that made women "crazy". Now we still use it but its not gender specific.

[patxshand]

Oct 18, 2008 22:35:05 GMT -5 slayerfest said:

For a long time in U.S. history, the 'N' word has been used to associate black people in a derogatory way. It's just a shame how it's used today in the black community, especially in rap lyrics. Like the whole Imus scandal awhile back. He was saying it like it meant nothing, just another "cool" thing to say, probably not knowing how negatively rooted it was in the past.

Imus didn't say the n-word.

[slayerfest]

I have to disagree. If they were unaware of the centuries of hate and oppression behind the word, why is it offensive for a white person to use the word? I think it's the opposite - they are extremely aware of the "N" word as a racial slur and are using language to try to transform it's meaning. That the use of the "N" word by parts of black culture is actually a re-appropriation of the word to strip it of it's negative connotation and give it new meaning.

"What's up my <insert N word here>?" is very similar in structure to "What's up my brother?"

I'd argue that this use is not out of ignorance. It's similar to how girls who are friends call each other "bitca" - it strips the word of it's negative connotation and gives it new meaning. These two negative words occupy a liminal state in the evolution of language - their meanings are changing simply because people are choosing to give these words new meaning in order to counter the original negative epithet. (Emmie)



Well the way I see it is, just because they are unaware doesn't make it okay or give them an excuse or free pass to say it. The point is to educate people about it. No one should be saying it, not even black people. I'm kinda against the whole reasoning where people say "it's okay I can say it cause I'm black" or Jewish or whatever the case is. I personally think that just continues to add fuel to the problem. And I get what you said about re-appropriation of the word and girls calling each other bitcas. Guess I never really thought about it that way. Cause I'm usually like, well, if its negative I'll stay away from it. People are usually just handling out blame and accusations, never really providing a solution or trying to form something positive out of a negative. So thanks for opening me up to that perspective!



Imus didn't say the n-word. (patxshand)




Yeah I know he didn't. He said something else which was offensive, no point in repeating it. But I think you misread me or I wasn't too clear. I threw in the Imus example without elaborating on it cause I figured we all knew about it and you would connect it to my point. So what I meant to say was he called them what he did in a casual manner like it didn't mean anything. I'm sure he knew it was offensive, on some level, but just the way society, black culture, rap, etc. saids it he probably thought it wasn't a big deal. Which was kinda my point about how people shouldn't be excused for not being aware of how offensive it is and the way to deal with it is to educate people about it.



And by the by...can someone plz tell me how you put in "On this date so and so said..." into your posts? Would be so much easier than cutting and pasting what people just said. Thanks in advance!

[patxshand]

Oct 20, 2008 13:19:10 GMT -5 slayerfest said:

Yeah I know he didn't. He said something else which was offensive, no point in repeating it. But I think you misread me or I wasn't too clear.

Nah, definitely didn't misread. You said "For a long time in U.S. history, the 'N' word has been used to associate black people in a derogatory way. It's just a shame how it's used today in the black community, especially in rap lyrics. Like the whole Imus scandal awhile back. He was saying it like it meant nothing, just another "cool" thing to say, probably not knowing how negatively rooted it was in the past."

"It," the subject of the discussion, being "the 'N' word." What Imus said was not even in the same ball park as the 'N' word. If he had been using the "N" word in the context your phrasing suggested, there would be no doubt that what he said was racist. But facts being what they are, he did not say that. In fact, he said something that was so insignificant that, if he were a black person talking about a white person, there would be no reprimands. Lil' Wayne and 50 Cent can get on the radio and say the word "cracker" without so much as a bleep, comedians can have entire skits making fun of white people, but when Imus says puts the words "nappy" and "ho" in the same sentence, he's racist. Nah, not even close to the "N" word. It's just not a valid comparison.

[slayerfest]

No, this is what I meant:

For a long time in U.S. history, the 'N' word has been used to associate black people in a derogatory way. It's just a shame how it's used today in the black community, especially in rap lyrics.

Up to there was about the "N" word.

Like the whole Imus scandal awhile back. He was saying it like it meant nothing, just another "cool" thing to say, probably not knowing how negatively rooted it was in the past.

This was to address the topic and the Imus scandal, which I stated that I felt people say things and not know how offensive it can be to others. The 'it" from the sentence I wrote:

"He was saying it like it meant nothing..."

was referring to what he called those basketball players. When I brought up Imus it was another example of people offending others. I wasn't saying it was more offensive than the "N" word, it was just offensive. I wasn't comparing the two, was just pointing out offensive examples.

And yes unfortunately in society when a black person talks about a white person, like you pointed out with comedians, the black person would probably not get the same treatment. I understand what you're saying. But what I'm saying is, no one should be allowed to say anything offensive to anyone, whether it is white people about black people, black about white, white about white, black about black, and so forth. I don't care if it is in the same ball park, if it is more offensive or less offensive, bottom line it is offensive period. I'm not sure about "nappy" but to me it would be offensive. But definitely calling someone a "ho" is offensive and isn't insignificant. So being racist, calling someone nappy or a ho isn't about which is more offensive, or to what degree of offensiveness, it is about are you offending someone or not by making these comments? And yes I think it does.

[Emmie]

Slayerfest, I think it was confusing how you used Imus as an example. Since the main topic of the thread was discussing slurs and you introduced the example of the "N" word then discussed "it" in relation to Imus...I naturally thought you were saying he had said the "N" word since I didn't remember the details of that radio scandal.

In thinking more about the "N" word and it's potential positive uses, my brother (we're both caucasian) uses the greeting, "What's up, my N-word?" with all his close friends who are white, black, Hispanic and Middle Eastern (i.e. Iran). They in turn use the greeting and it's a positive communication for them. It's not something done in ignorance either as they are all aware of the negative historical connotation attached to the word.

Question to anyone interested: Do you believe that you can give a word your own meaning? Can the N-word be used in a positive manner?

ETA: I've always avoided using the N-word because I'm overly aware of it's negative connotation. But I have seen it used in ways that were meant to be positive. I just have never felt it fit with the way I would communicate with others.

[wenxina]

The whole "that's so straight" thing... I think it's less about hurting their feelings, Mikey, as it is to point out just how absurd the whole thing is in the first place (it just sounds stupid, whichever way you're coming at it).
I mean, how do you make the leap from "That's so stupid/lame/boring/etc" to "That's so gay"?
Explain that line of reasoning to me, and maybe I'll pick it up. "That's so homo? Really? How'd you know? Closet-case much?"

patxshand: While it's true that there's a double standard out there for just about any situation, it essentially comes down to whether or not the joke's on a minority. I agree with slayerfest, that people should just learn to be a little more sensitive when it comes down to references.

Having said that, there are times when I think that people take things to heart way too easily. Maybe my hide's a lot thicker than some, and while I agree that no one should have to endure being called names, or even be subjected to having their sexual orientation become a joke, but really, if nothing else, the "That's so straight" bit just illustrates how ridiculous the whole expression is anyway, and why should I let something an idiot says bother me? I'm not calling any of you idiots (even if you do use it); I'm just saying that there are times when one should just take a step back, and see things for just what they are: sheer absurdity.

But to get back to Kara's original post, while the "That's so gay" bit annoys me a little, telling me that I'm so "gay" because of certain things I do or say doesn't really do anything. Especially is I'm in a total campy mood. Because, erm, I'm a male who flirts with/courts/forms relationships/etc with other males. I think that puts me on the gay train.
in other words, if you're calling things for what they are, I'm okay with it; i.e. telling me I'm so gay because I've expressed an interest in jumping the hot 90210 teacher, or even Chuck Bass. But on the flipside, I'd prefer that you call being stupid/weird/dumb/etc by it's proper name; i.e. stupid/weird/dumb/etc.

[Emmie]

Xi, allow me "to boil a complex thought down to its simplest possible form":

Call a spade a spade.

[wenxina]

Oct 20, 2008 16:45:39 GMT -5 Emmie said:

Xi, allow me "to boil a complex thought down to its simplest possible form":

Call a spade a spade.

I prefer shovel. Pfft.

[Emmie]

Here we go again. Wanna argue about how the Scythe isn't really a scythe?