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Post by hitnrun017 on Jan 16, 2009 15:53:20 GMT -5
I agree 100% El Diablo, especially the part about Buffy falling asleep in Xander's bed. When I read it I thought it was funny joke, and then I come on the internet and see "SUBTEXT!!!" all over the place and all I could think was "wait, what?". Things like that can be found in every episode of the series with every character, but it's never all subtext-y then, nor do any of the characters end up together.
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Post by CowboyGuy on Jan 16, 2009 15:54:12 GMT -5
I think that sometimes we see subtext when there is just.....non subtext. hehe. Is there a word for that? Haha.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jan 16, 2009 17:16:39 GMT -5
The Xander/Dawn references directly reference a sexual situation between the two of them. Dawn asks Xander to ride her. Ridden hard and put away wet. That is more subtexty because it's actually referencing 'the act' between them, while the closest we got to that was Willow wondering what sounds Buffy makes, which is--I'll give you that one--blatant sexual reference. The rest, though... nah, not so much to me. Most of it is just Kennedy being sensitive and bratty.
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Post by Rebecca on Jan 16, 2009 22:51:40 GMT -5
I think that sometimes we see subtext when there is just.....non subtext. hehe. Is there a word for that? Haha. Yes. It's an inaccurate supposition. We assume there is a subtext when there really isn't anything. Though I have to say that I believe the writers throw us these bones to get us all riled up. Just a thought. |
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 17, 2009 1:37:04 GMT -5
Does anyone else feel that because of Oz returning and Satsu and Kennedy being in Japan together that Willow and Kennedy may just break up and Willow go back with Oz?
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Post by Rebecca on Jan 17, 2009 5:11:06 GMT -5
I can't see Willow going straight. She's a gay woman period. Many fans will rip their hearts out if Willow gets back with Oz.
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rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
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Post by rufio on Jan 17, 2009 11:14:57 GMT -5
not I. I'm sure there is still love there between Willow & Oz and it would show how fluid human sexuality really is-or how it should be at least. There ARE people out there who have relationships with men AND women.
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Post by Rebecca on Jan 17, 2009 12:12:35 GMT -5
*raises hand*
Ooh! I know this one! I think they're called bi-sexual right? Am I right? Do I get a cookie?
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rogue11
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 197
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Post by rogue11 on Jan 17, 2009 17:46:28 GMT -5
Just because Willow was once in a relationship with Oz doesn't mean she wants to go back with him, which doesn't mean she's bi.
She had a choice to make back in season 4 to either try to rekindle things with Oz or start something new with Tara. She grew up since Oz broke her heart and she realized that her feelings for him weren't as strong as they used to be.
Now she could be bi, but she said she was gay on more than one occasion did she not?
And she seemed a lot more comfortable and confident with herself when she was with Tara than she was when she was interested in Xander and Oz. Kennedy was just too much I think, they would make better friends.
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 17, 2009 18:09:53 GMT -5
See I don't really agree with that. That's like saying that the whole time she was with Oz was a lie. She also had a crush on Xander for the longest time AND Giles. She even said Giles was sexy in Season 4 when by that time, she was with Tara.
There are many people who claim to be straight, then go with a woman/man and claim to be gay before going back again. Ann Heche...
Willow said herself when Oz found out thatshe felt like she would see him again someday if things went that way and it would be back to normal with them. I don't feel that Kennedy and her are right and that's why they are portayed as being slightly distant. My feeling is that she is going to go back to Oz.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Jan 17, 2009 18:13:18 GMT -5
If Willow wasn't with Kennedy right now, I could see her and Oz getting back together. I think she said in New Moon Rising that a part of her "will always be waiting", to which Oz says, "but now's not that time." I could see it happen, but I don't think it will... mostly because there would be HUGE fan backlash.
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Post by CowboyGuy on Jan 17, 2009 19:23:52 GMT -5
If Willow wasn't with Kennedy right now, I could see her and Oz getting back together. I think she said in New Moon Rising that a part of her "will always be waiting", to which Oz says, "but now's not that time." I could see it happen, but I don't think it will... mostly because there would be HUGE fan backlash. I agree. I think that there would be crazy backlash, although I am not sure why it would be a problem. I have never found Willow's lesbianism as a big draw to her character anyway. Sexual preference should never dictate one's entire being. Also, love is love...so who cares if she still loves Oz? The bigger question is, would he love her? These are Joss' characters, and it's his story...if that is what he is going to do I trust his judgement! It wouldn't even be a case of getting rid of the gays, as we still have Andrew, Kennedy, and Satsu. So if fans get crazy they'd really just have to take a chill pill.  |
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Post by wenxina on Jan 17, 2009 19:52:36 GMT -5
Just because Willow was once in a relationship with Oz doesn't mean she wants to go back with him, which doesn't mean she's bi. She had a choice to make back in season 4 to either try to rekindle things with Oz or start something new with Tara. She grew up since Oz broke her heart and she realized that her feelings for him weren't as strong as they used to be. Now she could be bi, but she said she was gay on more than one occasion did she not? And she seemed a lot more comfortable and confident with herself when she was with Tara than she was when she was interested in Xander and Oz. Kennedy was just too much I think, they would make better friends. Joss has mentioned before that he viewed sexuality as a slightly more fluid affair than many of us do, with the rampant labeling of preferences like each was a different shampoo type (which hey... who doesn't enjoy variety in shampoos?). While Willow may have identified as being "gay" at several times, I've always taken it to mean that she was "gay" at that point in time; i.e. she loved a girl. True, in a broad sense, and in a way that would make sense to most non-queer people, she's bisexual in that she's shown affinity to both sexes before. But during/after her relationship with Tara, Willow identified herself as homosexual. And so far, she's stuck to that identity, following Tara with Kennedy, and (what's been hinted at quite suggestively) Saga Vasuki. I guess my point is that Willow's never been one to date someone just because of a label. Until S4, Willow was always "straight". She liked boys. She fawned over boys. She enjoyed sex with boys. Then a boy broke her heart, and she fell in love with a girl. So she continued to love a girl. Can she never go back? TBA I guess, but as it has been said before, some members of the LGBTQ community will probably be up in Joss' face about it, just as there were thousands of outraged lesbians screaming foul over the "dead-evil lesbian cliche" when Tara was killed off in S6, and Willow went on a psychotic rampage. Funnily enough, my answer to said screaming lesbians is the same to people who are constantly trying to pigeon-hole things to make it easier on them themselves: It's all a matter of perspective. |
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Post by Rebecca on Jan 17, 2009 20:20:59 GMT -5
I think sexual preference is fluid through time as well. I said Will is a gay woman period because (1) she hasn't shown any attraction to the male sex since Tara and (2) I don't see Joss going in that direction in my magical crystal ball here next to my keyboard.  There is zero indication that Willow is even a teeny bit bisexual right now. That isn't saying that couldn't change, I just don't see how it could add to the story... it may very well detract from it, justifying to some bigots in the fandom that heterosexuality is the true and correct choice, and that's why Willow went back to men. It would send the wrong message, imo. |
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Post by wenxina on Jan 17, 2009 20:28:31 GMT -5
Agreed about the bit about arming the bigots... though... being a fan of the Buffyverse and harboring bigotry is almost antithetical. lol I, too, don't think that Willow will switch roads again soon, at least not in the course of S8. It would be too sudden, and as you argued, probably wouldn't add anything to the series at all, as a whole. |
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Post by CowboyGuy on Jan 17, 2009 20:35:48 GMT -5
I personally doubt Willow will ever go back to men. But Oz' return could at least provide a complication, and maybe some sort of jealousy within Kennedy at least. Maybe that will be a plot point.
We have yet to see how Kennedy reacts to living past loves, of Willow's. She sure did snap at Buffy though!
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BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Jan 17, 2009 20:40:18 GMT -5
She sure did snap at Buffy though! I know! If I was Buffy. I would have whooped that badonkadonk. Holla! |
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 18, 2009 2:03:14 GMT -5
Really, what would it matter what the fans would think? A lot of fans liked Oz and besides, just because she went back with him, doesnt mean that Tara and Kennedy never existed. Oz is a much better match for Willow than Kennedy ever will be.
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Glósóli
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 40
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Post by Glósóli on Jan 18, 2009 2:17:20 GMT -5
I can't see Willow going straight. She's a gay woman period. Many fans will rip their hearts out if Willow gets back with Oz. XD I would be one of those. I know there are many other gay characters in the series but she is THE gay character, everyone else is dispensable. Besides, I'm just starting to like her relationship with Kennedy. But Oz was a big part of her life, so I'm sure there will be a couple of awkward moments, but nothing else. |
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Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Mathieu on Jan 18, 2009 12:41:47 GMT -5
Reading some of your comments, I'm starting to wonder if you guys understand what it means to be bisexual. So here's a reminder. It means that you can be attracted both to guys and girls. It makes everything simpler and harder at the same time because indeed you might fall in love with a guy just like you might fall in love with a girl.
I believe Willow was genuinely in love with Oz back in Seasons 2-3-4 but he broke her heart and Tara came along. And she fell crazy in love with Tara, because she probably had that quality of liking girls too that she had never really talked about and it just happened.
The fact that she's been dating Tara and now Kennedy doesn't mean that all of a sudden she lost all kind of interest for guys. It's just that once you cross the line it's hard to take one step back.
If Oz came back in the comcis, I'm sure it would make everything so complicated! I would love it. Because of course, Willow will always have feelings for him. Remember what she told him in Season 4.
So please, gay friendly people, don't be narrow-minded and please embrace Willow's BIsexuality.
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