|
|
Post by wenxina on Apr 11, 2009 17:10:36 GMT -5
Although it's been well argued as a prominant symbol of Faith's growth, I don't see how her saying "G" could be taken as far as to say she's regressed as a character. Looking at it as a very basic human habit, Faith is a person that uses nicknames; so even if she intentionally used them in a demeaning manor before, and even if she seemingly made effort to stop doing it out of respect before, it's not a dramatic reversal to see that she still uses them. A real person probably still would, and I saw no negativity to the use in this issue. If anything, it could be argued that her nicknaming Giles is actually a positive step for their relationship in my opinion. It shows that they're on more of a level field, Giles isn't in the parental or authorititive position. My argument about the regression in Faith's character has nothing to do with the "G" nickname, rather her attitude in the issue. My thoughts on the claim that Faith and Giles are now on a more level playing feel have been stated to exhaustion, but most recently in the Catch-22 post. |
|
Skeptic
Initiative Soldier
[Mo0:24]
Posts: 344
|
Post by Skeptic on Apr 11, 2009 17:36:36 GMT -5
Sigh... I had a really awesome post typed, was almost done, then stopped to do something else, then my browser crashed. I thought I'd learned my lesson and realized I need to type epic posts in Notepad or something first. But nooo. Apparently my learning curve is steeper!
Anyway, the gist of what I wanted to say: Basically, I think this issue/episode was lazy writing. I'm curious about the story approval process that issues go through before they get printed, and who approves final prints before they're printed en masse and sold.
TV eps of Buffy have been written lazily also. So for me it's not a question of holding the comics up to a different standard, it's just a question of wondering why the characterization of Giles and Faith are so strangely off, and why the issue was not written very well on the whole.
|
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Apr 12, 2009 9:23:58 GMT -5
Sigh... I had a really awesome post typed, was almost done, then stopped to do something else, then my browser crashed. I thought I'd learned my lesson and realized I need to type epic posts in Notepad or something first. But nooo. Apparently my learning curve is steeper! I hate when that happens!  Emmie, I'm starting to think that you might be the one having a hard time adjusting to the comic book format ;-) Bwah! ...you were joking right?  I mean, let's put it this way, when we would watch the show on screen, anything that the characters said, no matter how badly written their lines might have been, we would consider it was pretty much in charcater because, hey, we heard the actors pronounce the words so it gives credentials to the line. I mean we could still question their behavior or reactions and say that we didn't like the direction one of the characters was taking but it didn't make the whole thing sound "off" or whatever. Now every single line that we read in the comics, we analyze and over-analyze it to make sure it's not "out of character" and we try to see if by reading it we can hear the original actor say it in our head. Maybe we have to detach ourselves from the original cast and let the characters evolve on their own in the comic format... Except the difference is that the writing for the comics has to be on for the very reason that there isn't an actor to run the lines through. And so the writing must have Giles accent, carries Giles inflection, demonstrate his character fully. This is the kind of writing where back on the show, the actors would be grateful for a Joss re-write and would come to him later saying 'wow yeah you fixed it'. Like the end of Beneath You or the entire episode of Halloween. |
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Apr 12, 2009 10:03:34 GMT -5
/slayalive/emoticons/troll.gif [/IMG] This is the kind of writing where back on the show, the actors would be grateful for a Joss re-write and would come to him later saying 'wow yeah you fixed it'. Like the end of Beneath You or the entire episode of Halloween.[/quote] *singing*Tell me more, tell me more, like does he have a... wait, I took it too far. No more Grease for me. But tell more about Beneath You and Halloween. |
|
dane5by5
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 734
|
Post by dane5by5 on Apr 12, 2009 10:26:42 GMT -5
/slayalive/emoticons/troll.gif [/IMG] This is the kind of writing where back on the show, the actors would be grateful for a Joss re-write and would come to him later saying 'wow yeah you fixed it'. Like the end of Beneath You or the entire episode of Halloween.[/quote] *singing*Tell me more, tell me more, like does he have a... wait, I took it too far. No more Grease for me. But tell more about Beneath You and Halloween.[/quote] The "Halloween" script was Marti Noxon's first big rewrite of an episode, apparently she "overhauled" the script and that's when she became Joss' go to girl. I remember Joss giving Marti Noxon the credit (unofficially) for the quality writing of that particular episode after the trouble they had with the original script that was turned in. I can't remember what the "Beneath You" rewriting involved, but I'm thinking something similar to "Grave"? |
|
Skeptic
Initiative Soldier
[Mo0:24]
Posts: 344
|
Post by Skeptic on Apr 12, 2009 15:32:33 GMT -5
So, my original thought is that maybe Jim's script didn't get enough of an editing job by whoever it is that's supposed to okay scripts before they get made into the comic. Because... it's bad.
|
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Apr 12, 2009 19:10:26 GMT -5
*singing*Tell me more, tell me more, like does he have a... wait, I took it too far. No more Grease for me. But tell more about Beneath You and Halloween.The "Halloween" script was Marti Noxon's first big rewrite of an episode, apparently she "overhauled" the script and that's when she became Joss' go to girl. I remember Joss giving Marti Noxon the credit (unofficially) for the quality writing of that particular episode after the trouble they had with the original script that was turned in. I can't remember what the "Beneath You" rewriting involved, but I'm thinking something similar to "Grave"? The entire iconic final scene where Spike confesses to Buffy he got his soul back in the church at the end of Beneath You was rewritten by Joss. There are a number of stories of actors going up to writers and saying 'I loved that line/scene' and the writer acknowledges that those were additions made by Joss. It apparently happened so often that Espenson and Petrie felt really proud when they were complimented by the actors mistaking their own work as Joss' because his special touches were what became the standout moments. Espenson talks about her "every night I save you" speech for Spike in Afterlife and how proud of that moment she was because people mistake it for a Joss touch but it was all her. |
|
Marcos
Novice Witch
Define "human".[Mo0:30]
Posts: 210
|
Post by Marcos on Apr 12, 2009 20:59:45 GMT -5
The "Halloween" script was Marti Noxon's first big rewrite of an episode, apparently she "overhauled" the script and that's when she became Joss' go to girl. I remember Joss giving Marti Noxon the credit (unofficially) for the quality writing of that particular episode after the trouble they had with the original script that was turned in. I can't remember what the "Beneath You" rewriting involved, but I'm thinking something similar to "Grave"? The entire iconic final scene where Spike confesses to Buffy he got his soul back in the church at the end of Beneath You was rewritten by Joss. There are a number of stories of actors going up to writers and saying 'I loved that line/scene' and the writer acknowledges that those were additions made by Joss. It apparently happened so often that Espenson and Petrie felt really proud when they were complimented by the actors mistaking their own work as Joss' because his special touches were what became the standout moments. Espenson talks about her "every night I save you" speech for Spike in Afterlife and how proud of that moment she was because people mistake it for a Joss touch but it was all her. "Every night I save you".... that's indeed really really really powerful. Jane's awesome, hands down ;D I can't wait to see Retreat. Too bad there's still one issue left on P&P, and the Tales of the Vampires... But I'm sure Petrie's will be a strong one, 'cause the guy is soooo damn awesome too! And Tales of the Vampires should rock too, 'cause Becky Cloonan is ALSO awesome. The girl rocks! ;D Wow, off-topic much |
|
Skeptic
Initiative Soldier
[Mo0:24]
Posts: 344
|
Post by Skeptic on Apr 12, 2009 21:21:34 GMT -5
The entire iconic final scene where Spike confesses to Buffy he got his soul back in the church at the end of Beneath You was rewritten by Joss. There are a number of stories of actors going up to writers and saying 'I loved that line/scene' and the writer acknowledges that those were additions made by Joss. It apparently happened so often that Espenson and Petrie felt really proud when they were complimented by the actors mistaking their own work as Joss' because his special touches were what became the standout moments. Espenson talks about her "every night I save you" speech for Spike in Afterlife and how proud of that moment she was because people mistake it for a Joss touch but it was all her. "Every night I save you".... that's indeed really really really powerful. Jane's awesome, hands down ;D I can't wait to see Retreat. Too bad there's still one issue left on P&P, and the Tales of the Vampires... But I'm sure Petrie's will be a strong one, 'cause the guy is soooo damn awesome too! And Tales of the Vampires should rock too, 'cause Becky Cloonan is ALSO awesome. The girl rocks! ;D Wow, off-topic much Seriously!! I am ready for Retreat because I am ready for some Jane! You know, she came on board for Battlestar Galactica and I believe she even co-produced it. And damn but if that didn't make BSG even better. I just wish Joss could have directed/written an ep like he wanted to. Stupid scheduling conflicts and such. But hey, Jane was fully on board, and over the years I've gotten used to the great lines she pulls out of these characters that I love so much. So when I say I'm ready for Retreat, I'm really ready for Jane. |
|
|
|
Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Apr 12, 2009 22:59:18 GMT -5
I'm right there with you guys. I'm SO ready for Retreat its ridiculous!!
|
|
weredog
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 38
|
Post by weredog on Apr 13, 2009 12:08:26 GMT -5
I'm excited about "Retreat" as well! Although, I definitely want to read "Living Doll" first so that we can finally resolve Dawn's issues. And there's going to be some Twilight revelation in that one? Hmmmmm...... |
|
|
|
Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Apr 13, 2009 13:45:30 GMT -5
I heard that there's going to be a Twilight revelation in this one too. I don't know if its his identity but there IS only 12 issues remaining in the season. |
|
|
|
Post by hitnrun017 on Apr 13, 2009 14:03:07 GMT -5
but there IS only 12 issues remaining in the season. Or 15.  (after Living Doll) I hope we don't find out who Twilight is in Living Doll. We haven't seen him since ToYL Pt. 4, and I'd like to see more of him in action and be more menacing before we find out who he is. There hasn't really been much focus on him either and it'd be cool if Joss played around more with the mystery of who's behind the mask. I vote we find out who he is at the end of Retreat or the end of Meltzer's arc. |
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Apr 13, 2009 20:43:01 GMT -5
Funny thing I just noticed. I was going through MDHP and came to the Serenity short from a while back. And guess who wrote it? Jim Krueger. And it actually wasn't bad. |
|
Marcos
Novice Witch
Define "human".[Mo0:30]
Posts: 210
|
Post by Marcos on Apr 14, 2009 10:20:01 GMT -5
Funny thing I just noticed. I was going through MDHP and came to the Serenity short from a while back. And guess who wrote it? Jim Krueger. And it actually wasn't bad. He is not actually bad. The thing is, Jeanty and Cliff Richards are better than he is, at least at the Buffyverse's action-horror-character-driven kind of thing. And it's really hard to draw franchise characters properly, 'cause there's so much background and details. Jeanty does it brilliantly, and Krueger didn't (at least in this issue). |
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Apr 14, 2009 10:47:41 GMT -5
Funny thing I just noticed. I was going through MDHP and came to the Serenity short from a while back. And guess who wrote it? Jim Krueger. And it actually wasn't bad. He is not actually bad. The thing is, Jeanty and Cliff Richards are better than he is, at least at the Buffyverse's action-horror-character-driven kind of thing. And it's really hard to draw franchise characters properly, 'cause there's so much background and details. Jeanty does it brilliantly, and Krueger didn't (at least in this issue).  Krueger was the writer of this issue; Richards pencilled. |
|
Marcos
Novice Witch
Define "human".[Mo0:30]
Posts: 210
|
Post by Marcos on Apr 14, 2009 10:55:50 GMT -5
Wow, I mixed stuff really good here. Gosh, I guess I'm too sleepy to get the names right LOL
What I meant (and I realized now it's not really in-topic here), is that Jeanty and PAUL LEE is better than Richards. (really embarrassed here LOL)
But, since the discussion is about Krueger, well, the issue was bad. But maybe he can do better...
|
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Apr 14, 2009 11:15:01 GMT -5
lol... no prob. Well that Serenity short story would definitely indicate that "Safe" may not have been fully representative of Krueger's talents.
|
|
Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
|
Post by Nicholas on Apr 14, 2009 12:58:13 GMT -5
I do have to agree with everything said about Giles dialogue in this issue. Because frankly the only part of the character that was there, was the drawing itself. Considering the Universe is now in a different medium, the writes who do the characters have to be damn positive that they get the voices down correctly, because if not then we dont actually have that character.
I should be able to read the dialogue without the characters name in front, and KNOW who is talking. What Emmie said about having the "yes" at the end of Giles sentence, clearly shows that something small goes a long way.
And maybe this is why the whole "B" and "G" thing doesnt really bother me, considering if you look around at the rest of the issue, the dialogue is bad over the whole thing and there is no character progression so it shouldnt be something to fret about.
And what Buffy/Faith season 3 thing is everyone talking about? Explainy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Emmie on Apr 14, 2009 17:24:43 GMT -5
And what Buffy/Faith season 3 thing is everyone talking about? Explainy. The Buffy/Faith lesbian subtext of Season 3. It's apparently something Petrie pushed into quite a bit of his episodes (the kiss in Enemies) and something Whedon was largely unaware of til fans pointed it out to him through their meta writing. |
|
