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Post by Rebecca on May 3, 2008 19:11:52 GMT -5
Okay, so I was watching the beginning of Season 7 where Spike was all crazy and confessey to Buffy about his soul, and he said that he got it for Buffy, to make amends.
I remember the first time I watched this I thought... he's lying!! I distinctly remember him leaving town in search of some mega-demon to take the chip out of his head so that he could kill Buffy. Then he comes back into town with a soul instead, and making with this whole "I got this for you" bologne.
Here are a lines from a few key scenes:
Season 6, episode 21 "Villains"
VOICE: You seek me, vampire?
Spike looks nervous, but covers it.
SPIKE: You do the finger paintings? Nice work.
We see a demon in the darkness, but all we can see is an indistinct shape and a pair of green glowing eyes.
DEMON: Answer me.
SPIKE: Yeah. I seek you.
DEMON: Something about a woman. The slayer.
SPIKE: (nods, barely concealed anger) Thinks she's better than me. Ever since I got this bleeding chip in my head, things ain't been right. Everything's gone to hell.
DEMON: And you want to return to your former self.
SPIKE: Yeah.
Close on the green glowing eyes as the demon laughs evilly.
SPIKE: What?
DEMON: Look what she's reduced you to.
SPIKE: It's this bloody chip-
DEMON: You were a legendary dark warrior, and you let yourself be castrated. (Spike looking angry) And you have the audacity to crawl in here and demand restoration?
SPIKE: I'm still a warrior.
DEMON: You're a pathetic excuse for a demon.
SPIKE: (angry) Yeah? I'll show you pathetic. Give me your best shot.
DEMON: You'd never endure the trials required to grant your request.
SPIKE: Do your worst. But when I win ... I want what I came here for.
The demon watches him, breathes loudly but says nothing.
SPIKE: Bitch is gonna see a change.
Season 7, episode 2 "Sleeper"
SPIKE (to Buffy)
This chip—they did to me. I couldn't help it. But the soul, I got on my own—for you.
Like I said, complete bull. What do you think? Why did he hide it, even though he had a soul? Or, was it a mistake on the writer's part?
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Post by Emmie on May 3, 2008 19:20:09 GMT -5
I believe the writers said that was a misdirect, making everyone think he was getting the chip out in order to make the soul more of a surprise.
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Post by Rebecca on May 3, 2008 19:24:16 GMT -5
So from the writer's perspective, Spike left in order to get his soul, not the chip out? It seemed to me like more of an inconsistency than a misdirect. Perhaps they were too keen on the "mis" in the misdirect  |
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on May 3, 2008 19:25:54 GMT -5
Yeah, Joss just wanted a plot-twist.
Moderator: At the end of the finale, I thought Spike wanted to get the chip out, not get his soul back?
Joss Whedon: Noooo.... but you were meant to think that. I personally devised something called a plot-twist.
Joss Whedon: Also, we thought, "Well, this is an unhealthy relationship", and if it reached its conclusion, the only way to take it would be to make him a new man, or at least make him try to be, which is a classic thing -- trying to just become the person you think your girlfriend will like more.
David Fury: Spike's quest was, and ALWAYS WAS, to get his soul restored for Buffy, despite any misleading leaks we may have put out that you fell for.
Jane Espenson: Spike looked into his soul at that moment, and saw the demon in him, and that's what made him want to go get a soul. ... We did a big ole mislead on you all, where we wanted you to think he was gonna go get the chip out. We knew, the whole time, from the very beginning, he was gonna go get a soul. And when he says "I want Buffy to have what she deserves", he means a lover with a soul.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on May 3, 2008 19:29:06 GMT -5
Angel: "Like you're any different."
Spike: "Well, that's just it. I am. And you know it. You had a soul forced on you--as a curse. Make you suffer for all the horrible things you'd done. But me... I fought for my soul. Went through the demon trials. Almost did me in a dozen times over, but I kept fighting. 'Cause I knew it was the right thing to do. It's my destiny."
Angel: "Really? Heard it was just to get into a girl's pants."
;D
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on May 3, 2008 19:29:59 GMT -5
Well, it's neither what Spike's saying, nor what Angel's saying. It's something in-between.
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Post by Emmie on May 3, 2008 19:31:29 GMT -5
Yep it was very plot twisty. I think the anger we see Spike displaying isn't so much directed at her but at himself and his incapability to give her what she needs/deserves/wants, but it on the surface appears to be anger at the slayer.
Getting the chip out wouldn't affect his relationship with her because he can already hurt her. It would make it so that he can hurt other people and become a killer again, but why would he want that when he wants Buffy?
Def the 'mis' was a bit too convincing tho.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on May 3, 2008 19:32:58 GMT -5
Well, it's neither what Spike's saying, nor what Angel's saying. It's something in-between. No, I believe what Joss and David and Jane say is the real truth about it--I just love that exchange between those two...  |
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Post by Rebecca on May 3, 2008 19:34:34 GMT -5
"SPIKE: bitch is gonna see a change. "
That makes me think less soul, more chip.
I see the wonderful replies and quotes from writers and editors, but the "plot twist" really felt more like inconsistency, rather than "wow! Joss really pulled one on me!"
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on May 3, 2008 19:36:54 GMT -5
SPIKE: bitch is gonna see a change. I've seen that line interpreted as "I can't believe I'm doing this for her, so she had better appreciate it", which sounds like Spike to me. |
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Post by Emmie on May 3, 2008 19:52:05 GMT -5
I wonder if that demon could even do anything about the chip. Maybe his only power is to return souls. The demon trials and such are way more mystically related than the chip. I think if Spike were really looking for a way to get the chip out, he'd find a doctor experienced at working on demons. Even though that one doctor failed in 'Out of My Mind', in the end it was an Initiative doctor who removed the chip.
Soul = mystical
Chip = medical
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Post by Rebecca on May 4, 2008 3:00:09 GMT -5
Completely. I get the logistics, and from a writing standpoint, it was a very good plot twist. I just didn't and still do not see Spike seeking that demon for his soul.
I just don't see why when he was discussing the return of his soul with the demon he was talking so much about the bloody chip! That should have been the last thing on his mind, seeing that it had nothing to do with his relationship with Buffy.
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Post by henzINNIT on May 4, 2008 3:25:07 GMT -5
aaah not this topic again.
I really don't get the confusion. It absolutely made sense to me the first time i saw it. People just get thrown off by him mentioning the chip (which was the mislead). Nothing in the dialogue posted above actually defines what he wants one way or the other.
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artiswar
Novice Witch
Cool... what's a rogue demon??[Mo0:0]
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Post by artiswar on May 4, 2008 12:37:30 GMT -5
SPIKE: bitch is gonna see a change. I've seen that line interpreted as "I can't believe I'm doing this for her, so she had better appreciate it", which sounds like Spike to me. Translation: "She thinks she's too good to let herself be with me? She still thinks I'm beneath her? Well, we'll just see about that." |
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on May 4, 2008 12:42:59 GMT -5
Ohh, I like that. Also fits nicely with Spike's "Bitch thinks she's better than me..." earlier in the scene.
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artiswar
Novice Witch
Cool... what's a rogue demon??[Mo0:0]
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Post by artiswar on May 4, 2008 14:02:32 GMT -5
That was always my initial reaction whenever i watch that scene, and it supports the theory (reality) that Spike went to get his soul. I never for a second thought SPike was going for the chip. Come on. Spike never goes for the obvious. Remember? It takes the mystery out.  |
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barryshaft
Novice Witch
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Post by barryshaft on May 9, 2008 15:06:19 GMT -5
I think he clearly went to get his soul. If he knew about these demon trials (cause it didn't take him very long to decide upon them) and thought they would get his chip out he would have gone a long time before that.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on May 9, 2008 15:22:01 GMT -5
Getting the chip out wouldn't affect his relationship with her because he can already hurt her. It would make it so that he can hurt other people and become a killer again, but why would he want that when he wants Buffy? . Let's play pretend. spike wanted the chip out so that he could hurt the prople around Buffy. Wouldn't surprise me if there's a few fics out there where Spike go all angelus on Buffy's family and friends to get back at her. The writers intended to give Spike his soul back, but since i think that the characters in buffy is so well written that they take on their own life, independent from the writers will, Spike might have tried to get the chip out. We don't know. i think he wanted to soul, but who knows. i'm not even sure if spike knew which one he wanted most. If he got rid of the chip, he could leave America for good and be all evil and harmful elsewhere. |
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on May 9, 2008 15:25:09 GMT -5
I just don't see why when he was discussing the return of his soul with the demon he was talking so much about the bloody chip! That should have been the last thing on his mind, seeing that it had nothing to do with his relationship with Buffy. I strongly disagree. If it wasn't for the chip, I don't think spike would have stuck around long enough (Buffy would probably have staked him) for him to realize that he was in love with buffy. Ergo, chip=his heartache, so that's why he'äs whining about it before the trials. |
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on May 9, 2008 15:38:38 GMT -5
i'm not even sure if spike knew which one he wanted most. He said he did in Lessons and Beneath You and Sleeper and Never Leave Me and Get It Done... |
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