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Post by Skytteflickan88 on May 9, 2008 15:42:49 GMT -5
i'm not even sure if spike knew which one he wanted most. He said he did in Lessons and Beneath You and Sleeper and Never Leave Me and Get It Done... Perhaps he was in denial or just lied, to get people to accept him. Just because he got a soul, doesn't make him an honest person. |
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on May 9, 2008 15:51:21 GMT -5
I don't think he had the capacity for such careful planning while he was busy being bug-shagging crazy in Lessons and Beneath You. And frankly, by deliberately misinterpreting Spike's motives (just because the alternative would raise Spike or Spike/Buffy in their eyes, God forbid), people spoil some of the best scenes in the series for themselves (most notably the church scene in Beneath You).
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on May 9, 2008 15:59:11 GMT -5
I don't think he had the capacity for such careful planning while he was busy being bug-shagging crazy in Lessons and Beneath You. If I was crazy from re-living all the bad things i've done, I would denie a lot, so I don't think that Spike was carefullt planning anything, but possible he couldn't admit everything he'd done, although he tried in Beneath You when he was in his "costume". And i'm not misinterpreting anything because I'm anti-Spuffy. i'm debatting alternatives, since their is several ways to interpret every scene. it's very offending that you say that I or "people" are "misinterpreting" just because we don't like Spike or spike/Buffy. |
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on May 9, 2008 16:13:50 GMT -5
I wasn't actually talking about you. (I thought you said you believed he wanted the soul back, anyway?) I was just observing that, from the many many many chip vs soul debates I've participated in, here and elsewhere, I've gotten the impression that most people who choose to dismiss the writers' comments on the subject have some anti-character/anti-'ship/anti-season/anti-soul agenda. If it came off offensive to you, then I probably shouldn't have generalized.
I think the number of interpretations for a scene depends on how much weight you put on the writer's intent. I want to watch these scenes as Joss intended for me to watch them, so I wouldn't entertain the notion that Spike went to get his chip out for a second. If a scene is left intentionally ambiguous (last scene in Normal Again, for example), or if a scene hasn't been dissected in interviews and later gotten a textual confirmation like this one has, then I'll talk about different interpretations.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on May 9, 2008 16:25:55 GMT -5
Okay, it did sound a bit generalizing, so i was offended, but you're probably right. a lot of, let's call them Zangel-fans, would probably never admit that souless or soulful Spike would do anything good.
And i do believe that Joss is God, so if Joss says something, that's law. Most of the time.
i think that spike wanted the soul, but i love to argue againt myself and others, to fins the most likely option.
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on May 9, 2008 16:34:29 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry about that.  I get the arguments that the writing in Seeing Red to Grave was too ambiguous/inconsistent/sloppy, or that they should have informed James Marsters of what Spike's purpose was beforehand. The arguments I don't get are the ones implying that Joss was somehow... lying about Spike's motives there, in both interviews and scripts, or that he doesn't know his own character. |
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on May 9, 2008 16:40:44 GMT -5
hm. I don't think i've heard of those arguments. or perhaps I have read them and then forgotten about them, because they make no sense.
I'm not sure if marsters would have acted better if he knew about the twist, but I don't think that Joss screwed up. Could be because to me he is God. lol
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on May 9, 2008 16:47:02 GMT -5
I'm generally fine with the writing there, too. I'd only make a couple of changes, like maybe cut down on the references to the chip -- plot twist or not -- and change the "Make me what I was" line (since Spike was never a vampire with a soul). The context becomes apparent in Beneath You, but they could have been clearer about it (as even Jane Espenson admitted, after a debate with a fan).
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on May 9, 2008 16:52:02 GMT -5
Well if everything was perfect and made sense, it wouldn't be Buffy, would it? lol
Joss loves messing us up.
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