Your thoughts about each season ?

[ligeia]

I'd like to know what all of you guys think about each season of Buffy/Angel. So let's start :

Buffy season 1 : It's quite fun to me, I like the B-horror movie vibe of some eps (The Witch, Teacher's Pet for example). And the athmosphere is light except the last episode. Too bad Jesse wans't mentioned ever again. We get to see "Vamp" Buffy !

season 2 : It already begins to get darker, but it's still quite light. Still the B-horror movie vibe (Bad Eggs, etc...) which I'm quite fond of. Bringing a second slayer was really a great idea, and I love Kendra. Her final encounter with Drusilla is awesome. The characters begin to develop, and I really like the Angelus storyline.

season 3 : Well it starts very well with Anne, one of my favourites. Then we get a masterpiece character : Faith. Everytime I watch this season I find myself thinking "Don't do that ! Things would've been so different if...", and for me it shows that a storyline a really good because I am so in it. And there is The Wish, another favourite of mine. And Anya. And Vamp Willow. And The Mayor...

season 4 : After the work done with season 3, I guess the writers needed some rest. A lot of episodes are very boring but there are some shining lights (Hush, Living Conditions - yes I love this one, Primeval, Restless...). I'm glad Oz leaves since he had always bored me. But we get Riley who is also quite boring sometimes... Off topic : did you know that Lindsay Crouse (Maggie Walsh) and Ken Lerner (Pincipal Flutie) appeared together in a Columbo episode ? To sum up, the weakest season to me with season 7. The main theme of this year - gang tearing apart - is brilliantly resolved but is quite painful to see evolve.

season 5 : To me, this season seems to bring a golden age to the show. I couldn't really explain why but that's how I feel when watching it. And I think that's why season 6's mood is so depressed, because when you climb on top of a mountain you're forced to go down afterwards. Buffy's never been more beautiful, Anya's never been so funny, Willow & Tara have never been so happy together, as well as Anya and Xander, Giles has found a job he likes... there is Joyce's death (awesome episode) and Dawn in danger, but the characters just shine. And we get Glory and the Buffy-bot !

season 6 : It may go down in terms of mood and athmosphere, but not in terms of quality for me. After having all been shining, the characters go through dark paths for sure !When I was younger I didn't understand much of this. It seemed very obscure to me. And I found that the "I love you" ending was just bad writing. But some years after this makes much more sense to me. I think I get the "non feeling" thing of Buffy which leads her to self-destruction, I think I get the "I love you" ending now, and it makes me repress my tears.

season 7 : Well...okay, there's a very nasty biiiig bad so there's no time to develop characters' relationships, but that could work only without the whole bunch on inconsistencies we see here. That "From beneath you, it devours" thing, repeated a billion times, seems drama-queeny and finally makes me laugh. Willow's return is very disappointing (Same Time Same Place), and I don't like Robin at all. Even the much awaited eps (Selfless, CWDP) didn't met my expectations at all. The best thing here is the fact that The First can appear as dead characters so we can see again the Big Bads and some others. Too bad they couldn't bring Kendra, Tara, Jenny and Jesse back ! But It's good to have Faith back.

Angel season 1 : It seems this is not commonly said, but it's the best season for me with season 4. There are some very valuable eps here, such as Eternity, I've Got You Under my Skin, Sanctuary, To Shanshu in LA, etc... And I like the initial team Cordelia - Angel - Wesley (Doyle dies too early for me to be counted, and I don't like him).

season 2 : I like this year too, even if it focuses less on saving people and too much on Darla/Angel. Darla's resurrection is quite well handled to me, and that was a hard thing to do ! Plus we get to see Dru and Harmony again.

season 3 : The worst for me. The Connor and Holtz storylines don't work at all for me, and the Fred/Gunn & Angel/Cordy romances are quite awkward. When watching this season I was thinking "what the hell is this stupid storyline ?" a lot !

season 4 : I love this year, and it even tries to redeem season 3 by giving Connor's birth some sense. The suspense and plot twists are very good to me. They did an awesome job, especially when rushed by charisma's unexpected pregnancy. Bad point, but necessary to the plot : Connor is SO annoying ! I love the Jasmine arc, it is full of philosophical questions.

season 5 : There are many weak episodes here, and the good ones are too rushed to be great. That's too bad, because there was material for an awesome season. Fred's death is too quick, the Circle storyline should have developped on at leat 4 or 5 episodes for example. One of the only things which runs on several episodes is Spike's "ghostiness" and this is boring to me. I honestly think Spike shouldn't have been here at all. It spoils his heroic sacrifice (the one thing the Oracles didn't want to do with Doyle, remember ?). Oh, and Lindsey's return was just lame and pointless.

That's it me for me. What do you think ? Of course I didn't say everything, and I hope you understand me, because I'm French and sometimes I may mess up with grammar or vocabulary.

[ded1]

Buffy the Vampire Slayer:
season 1:I thought it was a good beginning to the series.I was actually glad it was only 12 episodes

season 2:This was my favorite season.There were a few duds(Bad Eggs,I only have eyes for you).Overall,though,it was a well balanced season.

season 3:Another solid season.Faith and the Mayor were excellent adds to the show.

season 4:I actually liked this season(alot of people don't).I was not a big fan of the Initiative or Adam,but it had alot of good episodes.I did start to get leery on the Spike's Chip,but it wasn't too bad in this season.

season 5:Would have been my favorite season if not for one thing,Spike.Don't get me wrong.I actually liked him in the season,but I felt that it was somewhat OOC for the Scoobies to keep him around this season(Out of My Mind and Crush were two episodes where I asked myself 'why don't they just stake him already')

season 6:I didn't mind this season(it was better than I expected),but it wasn't the greatest.I felt that the overall story was interesting.I generally sum this season up as thus:
Willow-was one of her best seasons as a character
Buffy-her story was interesting,but weakly executed
Xander-Character backsliding doesn't interest me a whole lot,and this is what I felt they did with him this season.
Dawn-annoying.just wanted her to shut up

Season 7:Didn't like it.It had this 'We know it is our last season,so let's get it over with' feel.A lot of obvious plot holes littered this season,and I really wasn't too impressed with the Buffy/Spike storyline

Angel the Series
season 1:This was a good season(better than I expected,considering I wasn't a fan of Angel on BTVS)

Season 2:After season 5,this would be my favorite season.Wesley's and Angel's stories were especially good(wasn't sure about Gunn this season)

Season 3:Other than teenage Connor,I liked this season.I actually liked Fred and Gunn relationship

Season 4:I thought that this was a good season,just a little overdone.Cordy & Connor were a little disturbing(yet not in a good way)

Season 5:I loved this season.It started a little slow and I wasn't sure about Spike,but when it picked up it was an incredible season

[henzINNIT]

S1 - Good start but now very dated. Only episodes that stand out today are "Angel" and "Prophecy Girl". Still charming though.

S2 - Huge progression from slightly corny season 1 to a more dramatic tone. Still lame in places but brilliance is already showing through in many episodes. The Angelus story was an awesome idea.

S3 - This season is the show at it's peak in my opinion. The episode quality is just top notch, the few weaker episodes are still great. Most consistant season of Buffy ever produced. Not a huge fan of Faith but it was a cool idea. The Mayor is also awesome.

S4 - Took a blow loosing some key characters. Story points aren't as fluid as previous seasons and things are a bit fragmented. Circumstances beyond the staff's control means that the Initiative and Adam story had to be altered and I think tension and pacing was notably lost. Still, mostly great episodes; and major standouts like "Hush" and "Restless". Gets unfairly shafted in my opinion.

S5 - This season returns to a much better paced overall story. Dawn, although annoying sometimes was a great idea and provided Buffy's most interesting love story. Glory's character was a bit too ditzy to be scary, but it was cool to see someone who clearly over-powers our hero. Many great episodes, and another awesome closing episode in "The Gift". "The Body" is probably Buffy's best ever episode.

S6 - Easily the worst season of Buffy and Joss-verse TV. Episodes nearly always lack polish. Excessively depressing, yet also filled with cop-out humour. Many good ideas are badly executed (Dark Willow) and cheesy. There are some great moments but they're lost amongst pedestrian episodes. "Once More with Feeling" is the only great episode; thank god it's amazing.

S7 - Tonally improved from seaosn 6. Individual episode quality is far better, many great episodes. The season suffers from a lack of a coherent, planned overall story. Some characters are sidelined. Plot holes all over the place.

Angel

S1 - Fantastic opening season. Stand alone stories aren't for everyone but I find it normally produces many great episodes. There's a few weaker episodes but on the whole the season is very good. The small Angel "family" has a differen't quality to the scoobies. Doyle is a great character and a great catalyst for Angel's mission of redemption.

S2 - The show becomes dark very quickly and the season has many good twists and turns. Darla and Lindsey are unique villains and their relationship with Angel is interesting. Unfortunately the season loses its way after the main villains depart and the final 4 episodes feel entirely out of place. This season really starts to amp up the shades of grey in whether people are good or bad, something Angel revels in. A demon bar, lol.

S3 - Another unusual villain in Holtz. His past with Angelus is a great, untapped source of story; although the character is often not menacing enough. Wesley becomes absolutely fascinating. Episode quality is solid, but not many special episodes standout. Cordelia starts to become excessively heroic, and her romance with Angel is a mis-step.

S4 - It's the weakest Angel season in my opinion. The huge, season spanning arc lacks the individual episode quality of previous seasons. The Cordelia character is well and truely raped this season, and the writers struggle to do anything with Gunn. Connor is great however and there are a few moments of true epicness.

S5 - The show completely changes up, and for the better. The last 2/3s of the season is possibly the strongest run either show has ever had. Loads of fantastic episodes including a perfect show finale. The show ends on an emotional low but a quality high.

[alycat7]

s1- Luckily I watched the other seasons before seeing this one or I may not have given it a chance. I did like "Prophecy Girl".

s2- My third favorite season. The way Joss built Buffy and Angel's relationship just to tear it apart was great. I also love the way every character evolved.

s3- Mr. Trick, The Mayor, Oz, and Vamp Willow saved me from what I believe was a very boring season.

s4- Very good season. "Fear itself", "Hush", "The I in Team", "Superstar", "New Moon Rising" , and "Restless" are some of my favorite episodes.

s5- Everything about season 5 was fine besides Dawn. It had alot going on, Riley leaving, Spike being in love with Buffy, Joyce dying, Glory being a god, and the ultimate cliff-hanger.....Buffy dying.

s6- This season is my favorite because it made all the characters seem more real. It showed that even heroes screw up. The issues that they had to deal with were mostly self inflicted, and they all had to deal with them like humans, and not like superheroes. Most of my favorite episodes come from this season with the best one being "Once More With Feeling". The only thing I dislike was Tara having to die.

s7- There isnt much to say about a season were most of it takes place inside Buffy's house. I liked all the new characters that were introduced, and I loved the idea of bringing back Sunnydale High. The final battle was also really good. My favorite episode of this season was "Sleepr".

[jellymoff]

Jun 20, 2008 6:47:07 GMT -5 ligeia said:

[

season 3 : The worst for me. The Connor and Holtz storylines don't work at all for me, and the Fred/Gunn & Angel/Cordy romances are quite awkward. When watching this season I was thinking "what the hell is this stupid storyline ?" a lot !

season 4 : I love this year, and it even tries to redeem season 3 by giving Connor's birth some sense. The suspense and plot twists are very good to me. They did an awesome job, especially when rushed by charisma's unexpected pregnancy. Bad point, but necessary to the plot : Connor is SO annoying ! I love the Jasmine arc, it is full of philosophical questions.



That's it me for me. What do you think ? Of course I didn't say everything, and I hope you understand me, because I'm French and sometimes I may mess up with grammar or vocabulary.

I have to kindly disagree with you on Angel Season 3! I think it is the show at its best. "Waiting in the Wings", talking hamburgers, Angel almost killing Wes, Justine almost killing Wes, oh and Hotlz. To me, it is the best on-going story they've done. Even Connor's return and how he handles coming back. I think Fred and Gunn are great together-I like them better than Fred and Wes. I hated how they broke-up-I think Fred was crappy for becoming so cold after Charles killed the professor for her (but that's Season 4).

As for Season 4-I really did not like the Jamine story line or evil Cordy. Its saving graces are "Spin the Bottle", the Beast, and of course appearances by Faith and Willow.

Season 5-Spike's return was useless, and I LOVE Spike. It just seems like a ratings ploy if there ever was one. I think Spike's story was finished when he saved the world. (Although I am enjoying him in comics now) There are some good episodes-"Judgement", "A Hole in the World", "Smile Time". One episode that I watched recently "Lineage" suprised me, because I don't remember liking that one. It turns out I did! I think they wrapped up the show as best they could, but it feels rushed because you have "The Girl in Question" and then it like "Oh, we have to end this now!"

Back to Angel Season 1-Great intro to the series. A lot of stand-alone episodes. Doyle left us to soon, but brought us Wes.

Season 2-Angel gets super dark, and we get Darla and Dru. I think this is the second best season after season 3.

Now Buffy-

Season 1-Classic, short and sweet. I love the master. He's super evil and even hilarious at times.

Season 2-I can't decide if 2 or 3 are my favorite. The whole Angelus story line is so amazing. Its a lesson to all young girls-sleep with a boy and he changes. Kendra was ridiculous, but so quotable. "That's me only shirt!".

Season 3-Oh Faith! How I love thee... Some great moments, and the Mayor might be the best Big Bad ever. The scene with Buffy and faith on the roof-Buffy actually tried to kill her! So intense, the acting is great, love it.

Season 4-Probably the worst. Adam is lame. But we still got "Hush" and "Restless" and Tara.

Season 5-The best of the post high school seasons. Love Glory, and I even like Dawn. Too much dying, but "The Body" and "The Gift" are amazing even though I get weepy.

Season 6-Some good points. Love OMWF, sort of like Spuff, but hate the attempted rape. I also hate Tara dying, because I am not a fan of evil Willow. I love Alyson Hannigan, and I think she is great. Dark Willow was the only time I didn't beleive Alyson. She seemed so out of place, and Dark Willow's dialog is lame.

Season 7-I liked it overall, but I think the story felt cramped.

[Joe]

Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Season 1: It had some funny episodes... but not the best season overall

Season 2: Getting better, Cordelia's great in this season along with Willow/Oz and Giles/Jenny. And Angelus is sweet.

Season 3: The best of the high school seasons. Great standalones. We also get a lot of Faith... It seems to me like it was filled with classic Buffy episodes..

Season 4: This season is underrated. It might not be the best one overall, but it is definatly one of the funniest seasons.

Season 5: As so many people stated before it is the golden age of Buffy. This is the best seasons, with the best big bad and the best cast list ever. End of story... good bye. (It also includes the best season finale...

Season 6: This season is much more darker and more adult and way more drama and less comedy... not as good as the previous two but still entertaining..in my opinion.

Season 7: Great season... some great "epic" episodes. I'm not so sure I like the characters ratio of boys to girls is 30 to 3 though..

Angel:

Season 1: Pretty much the same as Buffy Season 1. Not the best, but great episodes..

Season 2: Just one step up from Season 1, I just didn't like how Angel went darker than usual..

Season 3: 2nd best season out of all of it. Cordelia's at her best in this season. And the whole gang is happy...for at least the first part of the season. I love the Darla arc. And I love baby Connor....WAY more than I do Teen Connor.

Season 4. Really cool season with a lot of drama. I just didn't approve at all of the Evil Cordelia or the Connor/Cordy UGH.

Season 5. Best season of Angel. With great funny episodes along with sweet character's joining the cast like Harmony, Spike, and Illyria. Really funny, really dramatic, really epic, really everything!

[themanwithoutfear]

Here goes:
Season 1: Episodes are entertaining enough to get me to come back each week. Introduction to Sarah Michelle Gellar a great surprise.
Season 2: This may be my favorite season. The relationship between Angel and Buffy just feels really real and intense. Ms. Calendar being killed brought a more serious tone.
Season 3: Introduction to Faith very entertaining. Kind of lame episdoes but the character of the Mayor and the last few episodes save the season.
Season 4: With the exception of a few episodes like "Hush", this is the worst season for me by far. Unfortunately we meet Riley.
Season 5: Not a big fan of Dawn here but the plot devise that she is, is pretty clever. I liked how Buffy character as the hero was well defined by Giles' actions and also her final sacrifice.
Season 6: With an episode like "Once More With Feeling" how can you not like it. This season is really well done. The is a dark cloud over all the characters during the episodes but I applaud the character development. I wish Anya and Xander had gotten married.
Season 7: Good times here. Andrew's character was a welcome surprise and I liked the interaction between the main characters more in this season than in the previous couple of seasons. Overall a good season in my mind.

[brandonr]

BUFFY:

S1: Agree with what was initially said about the camptastic episodes that were Oh-So-Cheesy at times, but they were still good and interesting. I loved the overall development of the characters, individually, and as a group, because it told us who everyone was for the get go, and brought the gang together neatly. The Master was lovely, but I like him much better in future appearances, after his death. And vamp-Buffy was a surprise!

S2: Lots of people rave about this season, and I do think that the show definitely hits its stride, but I find it boring at times. Spike and Dru steal the show from the get-go by killing The Annointed (or whatever that dumb kid was called). This season didn't really hit if for me until Becoming/Innocence when Angelus arises. From there on out, its twisted fun!

S3: I think it is, perhaps, the best of the series. Everything gels so well, and we get the most dynamic Big Bad team to date: Faith and the Mayor. I love Faith, she's my favorite character, and that might make me a little biased in terms of my favorite season. But I just think most of the episodes in this season are written and executed strongly, and everything, no matter how small, builds to the larger end. And that shared dream? C'mon!

S4: Lots of people hate this season, but I like it a lot. More than S1 even. The Initiative doesn't really detract from me much, neither does Adam. Using Riley and The Initiative to pull apart the gang is inspired, and for the first time we really see the effects of Buffy focusing too much on her boyfriend and not enough on her friends. She's so invested in making her relationship with Riley work that she's willing to attempt to change who she is and fit in with his crowd. From the outset with roommate-from-hell Kathy, until that breath taking ending episode "Restless", I think this season really floats on its own steam and works well with the overall arc of the series.

S5: I love this season too. I love every season of Buffy. I used to consider this season as THE best of the series, but I like S3 more. S5 is definitely in a close second, however. I think what drags this season down for me is Dawn's constant and consistant peril, and Glory. Glory is a good villian, but she's too whiny and preachy, and honestly, her and Dawn would've fit well together. I'm not quite sure what the whole idea behind having her and Ben be two halves of the same hole was supposed to be, because if it was supposed to be that Ben would be Buffy's new boyfriend, it didn't quite work out that way. Highlight of the season would definitely be "Buffy vs. Dracula" just because, hey, its in the title, and the reveal of Dawn in the last 30 seconds; "The Body" because its so gut-wrenchingly beautiful; and "The Gift" because, hello and goodbye to Buffy happens all in one season. There are definitely others throughout the season--especially the one where Riley leaves (can't remember the title).

S6: This season has it all. Ups, downs, emotional reveals, nerds, wacky plot twists, and veiny-Willow. The crayon speech is right up there with Anya's fruit punch speech of "The Body" in the previous season. The characters are all over the place, really for the first time since season 4, and even worse than in that season. We have several major things happen in Xander and Anya's breakup, Buffy getting shot, Willow going evil fish-filleter, and, oh, that's right, Tara kinda died.

S7: Too rushed? Yep. Best season? Not by a long shot. But where this season works is finding that everyone in the gang has finally grown up and taken their rightful place in the group. Anya is the last one to join the wagon, along with Andrew, and really all the characters get a little bit of a reminder of where they were and where they need to go to. Anya goes back to being a demon, Buffy makes with the stabby-stab and things get better; Dawn thinks she's a slayer, that she can come to the foreground, but realizes that she's just a noble researcher; Andrew steps up and becomes part of the gang and leaves his old ways; Buffy gets knocked down a peg by being thrown out, only to go away and come up with a plan; Spike accepts and relishes his role as Buffy's moral support, even if he knows its not right for him; Willow goes all Warren and then works the magic mojo to save the world.

As a whole, this series can't be touched in terms of character development. It is the ultimate. And just when you thought it was all over, we get S8, and everyone is going through the same crap. Willow's messing with stuff she can't OR shouldn't handle; Xander loves and loses; Buffy uses and abuses; Dawn's back to whining (and just when she was getting all adult-sized too!); and Andrew is...well...a mole maybe? Character progression here people.

[wenxina]

Buffy:

Season 1: Campy, highly enjoyable, and I'm embarrassed to say this, but the Master managed to freak me out one night when I had fallen asleep on the couch, and waking up to his leering fanged face made me turn off the TV really fast, and run up the stairs. The one-liners were golden, and although many of the episodes don't stand the test of time very well, I fell in love with the show right there.

Season 2: Hmmm... doomed teenage romance, with a much older guy. The darker take on the show, right from the beginning. Spike as a total badass! "Becoming Part 1 and 2". Sarah McLachlan's voice over the finale... yep, tear-jerker. Oh, and the whole "Close your eyes" bit. The introduction of a new Slayer, and the realization that every event in the Buffyverse probably has huge repercussions. Some more insight into how the Slayer line works.

Season 3: "Doppelgangland" and "The Wish" rate very high on my list of faves of this season. Faith as a dramatic foil for Buffy. The Buffy-Faith smackdowns (especially in "Graduation Part 1"), Buffy renouncing the Watchers' Council, Mayor Wilkins all made this one of the best seasons of Buffy in my books.

Season 4: On a personal level, I've never really liked this one. And no, it wasn't the Initiative, or Riley. I admit it was probably the transition from high school to college that caught me slightly off-guard. There were a couple of great eps though, "Hush" and "Restless" being faves. I liked the tension between Buffy's MO and those of the Initiative; the former being rooted in instinct, magic, intuition, and poking with a "sharp stick" while the latter is all about logic, order, reductive reasoning, etc.

Season 5: The opening was really weak to me, but it did set up many of the thematic elements that were explored later. Gotta say that for what was supposed to be the finale for the show (for a time), WB really got generous with the funding, the last few eps were about as epic as a TV show could be. This was probably the season that had a final arc that really had me at the edge of my seat. The season finale was excellent.

Season 6: Strangely enough, I felt a lot less disconnected from this season that S4. "Once More, With Feeling" was the episode that I was really looking forward too (I was still in Malaysia back then... and we were really behind). The dark themes were what made me love this show. We went from heroes at the end of S5 to the deep dark secret bits that traditional heroes hide, and it was torrid and deliciously well-crafted as well. Oh, and Spike pretty much only covered by bits of the set and props. Hmmm... Enjoyed the final Darth Willow arc; I thought it was a necessary evil.

Season 7: The return of the First was kinda cool. Unlike most others, I actually liked the addition of the Potentials. Sure they hammed up some of the spotlight, but the Scoobies were never really out of the limelight... they've become so ingrained to me that I always felt their presence. Furthermore, I liked the exploration of the Slayer mythos. Oh, and Nathan Fillion as Caleb... loved his line about what would have happened if someone had ordered a chardonnay at the last supper instead of the red wine. Buffy changing the rules of the Slayer line was unexpected, and Anya and Andrew's little hospital caper rate highly for me. Also, the score was pretty catchy... the one that is played during the final battle.

Angel:

Season 1: Loved the whole tight-knit feel of Angel Investigations. Doyle was wonderful... I was mildly upset that he left the show. Also, giving Cordy purpose... I never thought it could happen, but it did. The whole Wolfram and Hart being set up as a major player in the Buffyverse was a refreshing take on things; that people were evil too, and demons could be good. Oh, and reintroducing Wesley!

Season 2: I liked that the season quickly went dark, although I've to admit, it really threw me at first. The Darla arc was quite fascinating, and it did introduce Holtz for later. Didn't really care that much for the Pylea bit, although I'm glad they did to bring Fred into the fold. Hated the Groosalug!

Season 3: Wesley's private suffering and betrayal. The whole deal behind the mystical vampire birth was really intriguing. Connor (teenage Connor, that is) was an interesting addition. The nuances in his relationship with Angel were almost heartbreaking as you saw some of his defenses come down as he couldn't really hate his father.

Season 4: I guess the fourth season's always meant to be disorienting because that's what I felt. It wasn't necessarily bad, but it was liked a grip on your intestines that wouldn't go away as I watched Cordelia go bad without any explanation at first. In retrospect, I really kinda like the season-long arc, especially after finding out that it really wasn't Cordy in the driver's seat. Oh, and things kinda looked up when Faith re-entered the show. Also, it was nice to see that despite being on different networks, both shows kept in continuity with each other.

Season 5: The first half or so of the season didn't really do anything for me. It all felt stagnant, which I guess was the point, so kudos... but a job too well done? The loss of Fred was devastating, considering her newfound romance with Wes, but I loved the Ilyria bits. I know the final 1/3 of the season had to be redrafted or something, due to the cancellation of the show, but I really would have preferred a more fleshed out Circle of the Black Thorn story. However, given the circumstances, I thought the writers churned out a great finale. "Would you like me to lie to you now?" rates as one of Ilyria's best lines to me. Oh, and that Cordy makes a guest appearance doesn't hurt, even if the ep was kinda marred by Lindsey gone "urban cowboy"... I really hated his look in this season.

[ligeia]

Jun 20, 2008 19:03:31 GMT -5 jellymoff said:

I have to kindly disagree with you on Angel Season 3! I think it is the show at its best. "Waiting in the Wings", talking hamburgers, Angel almost killing Wes, Justine almost killing Wes, oh and Hotlz. To me, it is the best on-going story they've done. Even Connor's return and how he handles coming back. I think Fred and Gunn are great together-I like them better than Fred and Wes. I hated how they broke-up-I think Fred was crappy for becoming so cold after Charles killed the professor for her (but that's Season 4).

As for Season 4-I really did not like the Jamine story line or evil Cordy. Its saving graces are "Spin the Bottle", the Beast, and of course appearances by Faith and Willow.

Season 5-Spike's return was useless, and I LOVE Spike. It just seems like a ratings ploy if there ever was one. I think Spike's story was finished when he saved the world. (Although I am enjoying him in comics now) There are some good episodes-"Judgement", "A Hole in the World", "Smile Time". One episode that I watched recently "Lineage" suprised me, because I don't remember liking that one. It turns out I did! I think they wrapped up the show as best they could, but it feels rushed because you have "The Girl in Question" and then it like "Oh, we have to end this now!"

I don't mean to argue with you at all, I'd just like to develop my point of view to help you understand what I think :

I think season 3 does have some good points, I like Wesley's story and Justine for example. And baby Connor is cute, no matter how his birth seems impossible. I also like the debut season, before Darla returns. But this season overall just doesn't work for me.

I understand watching evil Cordy is hard, and what happens to her may be the most tragic storyline in the Buffyverse. But the Jasmine arc really thrilled me, because it is very ambiguous. She's not a classic Big Bad, I think she really wants to bring peace to the world. And when she is killed, I just wonder "who was really right ?" because like she said there are no absolutes and both Angel and her have done good in their own ways, and evil too. It's no wonder W&H offered Angel a CEO seat, because he brought back chaos according to them. I think this may be the most brilliant arc of the Buffyverse.

Season 5 : I like Spike too, but almost everything he does here is wandering around and mocking Angel in Sitcom scenes. There are good episodes (A Hole in the World, the two last ones, Harm's Way...) but as I said they feel too rushed to be great to me. And there are many awful eps (Smile Time, The Cautionnary Tale..., Why We Fight - maybe the worst of all Angel series, The Girl In Question...) which take the place of developped arcs. I know they learned the cancellation too late and it's too bad, because The Circle of the Black-thing storyline just seems to come out of nowhere and should have been developped through the entire season. I also feel Eve and Lindsey are pointless. Lindsey first try to kill Angel, but finally he came here to help ? I like having Harmony back.

If you have any other comments, you're welcome !

[Greer]

I'm just gonna do the Buffy seasons:

Season One: It was a good start to the series, in the year that it premiered. There were some definite bad episodes( i.e. The Pack) but there were a few that I'm still coming back to, 11 years later. It was cheesy but still was able to work in a bit of drama. Angel and Prophecy Girl were standouts.

Season Two: My personal favorite. It was a bit cheesy and light until Angel turned into Angelus. The whole storyline of Angelus, Spike, and Dru was superb. A lot of fantastic episodes: Passion, Innocence, I Only Have Eyes for You, Becoming 1 & 2. It was great to bring in Kendra and Becoming(s) were able to bring in a lot of background history. Plus the Sarah McLachlan at the end wrapped up the season's extrem emotional highs and lows.

Season Three: Not a personal favorite, but the introduction of Faith was key to the season's success. Plus Mayor Wilkins brought a lot of interesting villainous comedy to the show. Finale was cool, but I felt that it was lacking.

Season Four: Loved Spike coming back into the show more full-time. Adam was an ok villain, he didn't do much for me. I liked the Veruca/Oz storyline, because while Seth Green is a great actor, I didn't like him that much on Buffy. He was just a bore to me. This season was awesome because it introduced Tara and a lot of the Slayer backstory. Great eppies: Where the Wild Things Are, Hush, This Year's Girl/Who Are You?, Restless.

Season Five: I am not a fan of Dawn until the middle of Season 7. I never loved the addition of her into the show, I always felt that it wrecked it just a bit. It was good that Riley left, and that Spike was worming his way into Buffy's life. The Body is a tragically perfect episode. Dru coming back for an episode was great. The second half of the season was great, and The Gift is a perfectly tragic episode.

Season Six: A lot of people don't like this season, and I can understand why. But, it is one of my favorites. Being around the age that is portrayed in this season, I can relate to the uncertainty of life and all of its ups and downs. Buffy and Spike had a destructive relationship, but I am still a huge Spuffy fan. I enjoyed the Trio,especially with the introduction of Andrew. ONWF and Tabula Rasa were fantastic. Dark Willow was awesome, and I actually enjoyed it when Willow kicked Buffy's ass in the end. It was just nice to see Willow be physically strong, even if it was Dark Willow. Giles coming back was great. Plus, another Sarah McLachlan season finale.

Season Seven: This felt rushed in some ways. Kennedy and Willow's relationship was my least favorite of the whole series. I really didn't enjoy Kennedy's character. In the season premiere, one of my favorite scenes ever is shown: When the First is giving a speech as all of the villains from seasons past; That was breathtaking. Conversations with Dead People, Lessons, Storyteller, Selfless, and Chosen were all standouts. I loved that Xander lying about Willow doing the Spell of Restoration in Becoming was finally brought up. I didn't like how everyone betrayed Buffy at some point, especially Giles. But the season's high points definitely made up for its low points.

[El Diablo Robotico]

Okay, I'll play:

Buffy S1: The signs of the greatness to come are here, but the show is clearly struggling to find its footing. There's some really cheesy moments, and some pretty bad episodes ("Teacher's Pet" is truly horrific), and while the best bad guys in the Jossverse are usually the ones with senses of humor, the Master is apparently the exception that proves the rule (he's funny, yet still maybe the worst Big Bad they ever did).

Buffy S2: An up-and-down season, but still one of my favorites. The good episodes are truly great ("Becoming", "Surprise/Innocence", "Passion"), but the bad episodes are really bad ("Inca Mummy Girl", "Reptile Boy", "Go Fish"). The Spike/Dru/Angelus dynamic was one of the most interesting things to watch among any of the villains on either show. And from a completely superficial standpoint, Sarah never looked hotter than she does this season, IMO. ;D

Buffy S3: The best season overall. Nearly all the episodes are good, a few are outstanding, and even the couple of "bad" ones ("Dead Man's Party", "Gingerbread") only make it as low as "average; nothing special". Faith is my all-time favorite character, and the Mayor ranks up there with Glory as my favorite Big Bad. And gotta give some love to Mr. Trick.

Buffy S4: Not my favorite, but not nearly as bad as some people think (I often see this listed as fans' choice for the "worst" season). It's still got all the comedy, drama, and action that make the show great, and the characters all have interesting arcs that they go thru as the season goes along. I don't even mind Riley. The only real negative to this season is that Adam, Maggie, and the Initiative are pretty boring Big Bads.

Buffy S5: I love Glory, and I even like Dawn (which puts me in the minority). In a lot of ways, it's nearly as good as S3, but unlike S3, there are a couple of clunkers tossed in there ("Buffy vs. Dracula", "Out of My Mind"). Overall, my second-favorite season.

Buffy S6: The seasonal arc doesn't have any glaring holes, the focus stays on the characters, and for the most part, the episodes maintain the high quality we'd come to expect from the show ("All the Way", and the stretch starting with "Smashed" and running thru "As You Were" are pretty damn bad, tho). My biggest complaint is how they somehow thought it was necessary to make every... single... character feel as miserable as they possibly could. I still don't understand why Xander and Anya couldn't have gotten married, so that there'd at least have been something happy that happened during the year--it's not as if breaking them up paid off into any great storylines for either of them later on.

Buffy S7: A complete mess, from beginning to end. The characters got lost in the shuffle somewhere as the focus shifted almost entirely onto the First Evil storyline, and then they couldn't even make that storyline make any sort of consistent sense. Andrew was one of the few saving graces, providing the humor that Xander used to (but lost somewhere shortly after "The Replacement"), and there were at least a couple of really good episodes ("Selfless", "Storyteller") that kept the season from being a complete loss. My least-favorite season, and by a wide margin...

Angel S1: I love Doyle, I love their original offices, and I like the anthological nature of the show early on, which they got back to again in S5. Unfortunately, there's not a ton of great episodes at first ("She" makes me shudder and want to skip it every time I get to it), and it doesn't really start to get great until "Five by Five", right near the end of the season. Still, I love the darkness and grittiness that it had in its first year, that went away almost as soon as they moved into the bright and spacious Hyperion in S2.

Angel S2: A good season, with the Angel/Darla/Lindsey triangle, and plenty of Wolfram & Hart intrigue. My only problem with it is how W&H's plan for Darla never really seems completely clear, and how her storyline just kind of ends abruptly, not to be returned to until S3. I enjoyed the Pylean arc a lot, but it would've been better as an early- or mid-season storyline, not a season-ender (from what I understand, this had to do with Julie Benz being unavailable for the last few episodes, and them needing to come up with something kind of last-minute to end the season with, so it's not really their fault).

Angel S3: My second-favorite season. Consistently awesome all the way thru (with the exception of "Provider", which pretty much sucked). Wesley's character has probably his most obvious and interesting development of the entire five years. Holtz is possibly the most captivating and compelling (and maybe another word that starts with 'C' ) nemesis of either show. Not 'Big Bad', or 'villain', but 'nemesis', because that's what makes him so interesting--he's a good man who had some of the most awful things imaginable done to him by Angelus and Darla, and is actually more than a little sympathetic. He has no sense of humor, usually a no-no in a Joss nemesis, but Sahjhan provides him with a cool wacky sidekick. The only real negative to this season is that, apart from "Waiting in the Wings", there are really no 'standout' episodes, just a long string of good ones.

Angel S4: Taken individually, S4 has a lot of great elements to it: Faith, Angelus, Willow, "Spin the Bottle", and the things all of the different characters go thru. That doesn't stop it from being my least-favorite season, tho. The overall arc makes very little sense when you really start trying to pick it apart. Connor and Evil Cordy are almost unwatchable, especially together, but even when they're apart. The Beast is a big, dumb, boring hunk of rock. And Jasmine is a very unsatisfying payoff for the Evil Cordy storyline, which so dominated the first 2/3 of the season.

Angel S5: Lindsey's scheme makes no more sense than the S4 arc, or "Buffy" S7, but I don't even care, because it's such a small part of the season, and everything else about S5 is so good. There are probably 10 episodes that could be singled out and described as not just 'good', but 'great', with just 3 or 4 that are sub-par. And I like the standalone element to it, which is the complete opposite of S4.

Anyway, that's just my take on 'em...

[buffyfan21]

Great thread idea.

Buffy:

S1 - I feel that this season should be respected for what it is, the classic season that started it all! I love the grainy, dark, B-movie horror feel of this season.

S2- This is quite possibly my fave season of the entire series. I love the Buffy/Angel/Angelus arc of this season. Some of my fave eps include: Suprise, Innocence, Becoming Part I & II, Passion.

S3 - Another solid season. Got the intro of Faith and the mayor, and also Anya, who went on to become one of my fave characters. It was interesting to watch the dynamic between Buffy & Faith and how they played off each other. I like how this season explored what happens when a slayer goes bad.

S4 - This season gets a bad rap by many fans, but I think it had some very funny/good eps. I think this season was just hard for the audience to adjust to b/c it was new and unexplored territory for us and the scoobies - we know longer had the familarity of Sunnydale high to hold on to. I think that the writers did the best they could with this season, as far as establishing this new chapter in the scoobies' lives. Some of my fave eps include: Beer Bad, Yoko Factor (hilarious eps!), Primeval - Completely bad- ass how Buffy and the scoobs took down Adam, Restless - Amazing ep. New and interesting idea for a season finale - something never done before.

S5 - Loved the dynamic of this season and how it mostly centered around family. Wasn't sure what to think about Dawn at first, was hella confused and had no idea what was going on. After a while though she did kinda grow on me as if she'd been there all along. Thought the idea of her being the key was cool. I think Dawn gets a bad rap from many fans as well. True, she did whine a lot during S5 & 6, no disputing that really, but granted, Dawn did have a lot to whine about, she had some really tough breaks along the way. I mean, how would you handle finding out you're a mystical key, losing your mom and then your sister? So, maybe we should just cut the Dawnster a little slack.

I understand why Joyce had to die this season, but I hated it! It was interesting though that after she died we got to see Buffy in a way we had never seen her before - as mother to Dawn. The Gift as an absolutely amazing ep that gets me everytime!

S6- This season also gets a bad rap from many fans. while it is dark, uber depressing, and uncomfortable to watch at times, I feel that it is a very realistic season that does a great job of reflecting life. Plus, we got one of the most amazing eps ever - OMWF!!!

S7 - Quite possibly my second fave season in the series. Didn't much care for the potentials (most of them were brats), but that is beside the point. I love how this season explored what it means to give and share your power with others. I love how Buffy took on the role of counselor, mother, mentor, teacher, -again exploring sides of herself we had never really seen previously. Amazing, amazing series finale, and more Andrew is always a good thing, lol. Hated that Anya died and that Xander lost his eye.

Angel:

S1 - This was a really solid season that did a wonderful job of establishing the foundation for the characters. Every ep was great for the most part. Loved the premiere ep. Other faves include: IWRY, Five by Five, Sanctuary, Hero (makes me bawl everytime!). Loved Doyle and hated when he died, but loved the edition of Wesley.

S2 - Another solid season. Got the intro of Lorne who is probably my absolute fave character on the show. I especially loved the pylea story arc.

S3 - Did not care for Connorwhen he came back, but liked the idea of him as a baby. Loved the Fred/Gunn romance.

S4 - Hated the Connor/Cordy thing, ick! But there were aspects of the season I liked. In terms of larger story arcs it was a pretty good season, imo. Thought the Beast was a pretty cool demon, the Jasmine story arc was interesting, loved the return of Faith.

S5 - Best season by Far! Every ep was top notch. Loved the edition of Spike - the banter between he and Angel, just hilarious! Absolutely amazing series finale. Hated that Fred died, but Illyria is just so bad -ass!

[ligeia]

I really enjoy reading your season reviews ! I want more !

[Tyler Austin "tiewashere"]

Buffy:
Season 1: I actually sort of like this season. In that weird I've-had-to-watch-it-many-times-to-like-it way. But, the sad thing is, its not good for a first time watcher. It's very repetitive and dull. Mostly due to the bad special effects and it just has the feeling of a show that doesn't know what it wants to be yet. I love the first two episodes, Nightmares, Angel, and Prophecy Girl but that's really it. The others are alright and its so sad that when my friends first watched it I actually had to say "don't worry it gets better."

Season 2: I think the last eight episode of season two are good. But the beginning of the season if very repetitive and MUCH like season one, which I don't like. I feel like the show does find itself and does offer one of the best twists of the series (Angelus) but that's really all. The ending is very good, but the overall arc doesn't make it amazing...it's the individual episodes.

Season 3: This is probably the most well-structured season of Buffy. Every episode really plays a part in the larger span of the season and it all leads up to the end of high school. I think Faith is an awesome character. Although this season doesn't have as many "oh my god!" moments as the others do, it is still an excellent storyline .

Season 4: I just consider this to be the shaky lets take a break season. We have lost three main characters and the scoobies fall apart. It's filled with some lame episodes highlighted by some awesome ones but it just fluctuates too much for my taste. I love Willow's transition to dating Tara and I love Restless. This season does set up many things to come. I think of it more like a prequel to season 5.

Season 5: This season starts the beginning of the "golden age" of Buffy for me. From the first episode, the twists hit you. I love the scoobies all together and I feel like this is the season where we have the main core all coming together and just being friends. I LOVE the ending and I LOVE the feeling I get when its over every time. Glory, I think, is an awesome big bad and she is very interesting. Dawn, although annoying, is still interesting with her storyline. I love how this season really throws Buffy into adulthood and just makes you realize how strong of character she really is. Joyce's death is the best death I have ever seen on a television show and that whole episode is just a masterpiece.

Season 6: After this season, it marks the end of the "golden age" of Buffy. The beginning is so good and the ending so good. This season really does leave me with amazing emotions, which I guess it should. When I finish "The Gift" I always say, "Wow, I wished the ended the show there. I hate that there is another season." But that's how you are SUPPOSED to feel. Buffy was done, over, and she was peaceful. But when the new season starts you almost feel crushed...but that's how Buffy felt. Whenever I think about this I love it.

Season 7: I don't hate this season as much as everyone else does. I sort of like it. I mean, I really hate how the scoobies never really get back together in the end (thats what season 8 is for) and I think some episodes aren't good. But after season 6's dark feel, its nice to go back to a light funny mode. I like the ending to some episodes and I really like the episode where Buffy is thrown into the alternate dimension and the end if all the ubervamps getting ready to fight. The ending always leaves me to cry and I just think about how amazing Buffy was. *tear*

Angel:
Season 1: I consider S4 and S1 of Buffy and Angel to be one season of one show. They both really haven't broken apart so yeah...I watch these together no matter what. The ending of the first season of Angel is very good and promises a lot but the overall season I find boring.

Season 2: I love this season. Darla and Dru are fantastic together. I love the darkness. I feel that towards the end of the season it gets really lame.

Season 3: Probably my favorite season besides season 5. I love this whole storyline and I think Connor's birth was beautifully done. Once Connor enters as a main character it pretty much all goes downhill from there.

Season 4: I hate this season. It's strange. I love how every episode has a shocking ending, and the whole season is basically an apocalypse...but I feel like they ruined Cordelia's character and Connor is annoying. I love the episodes themselves...I just hate the sub-plot. I do love Jasmine though and that whole storyline. I also hated how the show TRIED to explain what happened and hit an epic fail.

Season 5: Blows any season of both Buffy and Angel away. It hits such a different note. Illyria is awesome and the finale is great. I feel like the ending SHOULD have been foreshadowed but really...it was cancelled...they had to rush. I love how the show ends...fighting for what is right. I love Fred and I think she got one of the best death scenes I have ever seen and it makes me cry every time.

[brandonr]

Never did get to post my thoughts on Angel, so here it goes:

SEASON 1: Not exactly the most well structured season, but it does provide some good plot points and interesting drama for the characters involved. It was quite a shock that Doyle died only 7 episodes in, but that fact also makes it a little more difficult for us to feel for him at all since we don't really get to know much about him and we don't care for him too much. A few more episodes, and maybe one more highlighted predominantly on Doyle would've done that. I really like the dynamic between Kate and Angel, and I can't remember whether or not its this season or season 2 where she finds out he's a vamp, but whichever it is, that was a great storyline as well. Overall, too stand-alone-y, not enough arcing compared to later seasons, but still it is satisfying.

SEASON 2: It starts off really well coming in from the surprise of Darla being brought back at the end of S1, and we really want to know what's going to happen. But over the course of the season, the Darla drama is too much. It's certainly not enough to fill up an entire season with, and I found myself growing tired of the "Will-they-or-won't-they" kind of thing, which is really below Joss' level of storytelling. After Darla was finally turned by Dru, and Angel sets out on his "dark" quest to burn them alive, the season gets a little more interesting. It's definitely cool to see this non-Angelus dark side of Angel, and it really brings his goodness into perspective, and gives a new respect to and for the character.

SEASON 3: Unfortunately, this season also didn't do it for me. I don't know what it is about Angel, but some of the stuff they come up for the seasonal arcs aren't as interesting as Buffy's. There were some really great episodes during this season (I'd know them if I watched them but can't list 'em) and the flashbacks were very good, but I found the whole thing with Holtz kidnapping Connor and then going away to be too detrimental to Angel's character, and I just couldn't feel his pain. I, too, thought Connor's birth was really well done, and that definitely advanced Darla's character if nothing else, but Holtz just didn't do it for me. He's too close to the line between good and evil: His intentions might seem noble and good, but they're really evil. Or his intentions might seem really evil, but they're building towards something noble and good. Its not like the Mayor where he was CLEARLY evil but just peppy about it. Maybe Holtz's character arc was something I just missed out on overall.

SEASON 4: Definitely not my favorite season, but I do love it. The urgency and apocalypseness of it all really intensifies the show and gives it a charge. And I think this end-of-the-worldness that's happening is very in line with the same theme that's happening over at Buffy, though two different things are happening. I love the Beast, and that rooftop fight scene with everyone fighting him only to have him smack them down like dogs is truly great. The Connor/Cordy thing really creeps me out, and Cordy's coma is bollocks all over, but the endgame is really interesting and thought provoking. The Wes/Lila thing is unexpected and character deepening as well.

SEASON 5: Many have this season as their least favorite, but it is my favorite. The show really takes a creative recharge with the season. New rules, new location, new cases with a twist. Angel and Co. have to operate within the bounds of Wolfram & Hart, but still have to try to save lives, which really is tough for them. We two characters this season with Fred and Cordy (what is it with killing women?) and the endgame is truly inspired. Who cares if these episodes are stand-alone like season 1? The addition of Spike and the dynamics of the team are what make these episodes special, and with only one glaring misstep "Why We Fight", the season is perhaps one of the most solid of the series.

One thing I like about the series as a whole is that everything is one big arc. From season 1 where Angel is helping people and Darla comes back, through Season 2 when Angel is trying to save Darla only to have her die, and then he sleeps with her, to Season 3 where Darla returns pregnant, has Connor and Holtz takes him, to season 4 where Connor is back, the Beast comes, and Jasmine is born only to have Angel kill her and get offered the position at Wolfram & Hart which leads to Season 5 where he loses Cordy (all over again) and Fred, as well as having to put up with W&H's rules and regs, and finally getting the idea to take out the Circle and stick it to the Senior Partners, bringing about (what could be argued) at the SP's endgame all along, where "the vampire with a soul" will have a major part in the apocalypse.

[watcher]

S1. Not my favorite season, but it built the foundation of the series obviously. A bit too many cheesy monster of the week moments.

S2. The show finds it's identity and niche....Angst with a little comedy. Still had cheesy monster of the week moments but started to become a solid drama. David Boreanaz's acting improved a lot.

S3. A solid, strong season...I loved every minute the Mayor was on screen..he had this insane happy outside persona but underneath there was a evil and creepiness that gave me chills. The Mayor's relationship with Faith was strangely touching...he really cared for her even though he was a very dark character.

S4. The show struggled with the loss of Cordy and Angel and was a little dull for a few episodes. I think the show was revived with the return of Spike and the integration of Anya as one of the scoobies

S5. Buffy is an adult now and I think this was Buffy at her happiest moments...everything was sunny in Sunnydale even though they were fighting a somewhat hopeless fight with a god. Joyce may have died but her death molded Buffy into the adult she is today. Sometimes the hardest thing in the world is living in it.

S6. Dark and angsty...but interesting nonetheless. I loved the trio's lameness and I understand the whole "Buffy used Spike" deal. Buffy was damaged after being pulled from paradise and the whole season she was trying to fix herself...but it wasn't until she came out of the grave the second time before she was whole again. Xander leaving Anya at the altar was lame.

S7. It started out amazing. I had high hopes for Dawn's development...Buffy was going to train her...Dawn has new friends...then nothing..Dawn was pushed aside (much like Xander) and we got a ton of uninteresting characters (Robin, Kennedy, most of the potentials). I was upset that we didnt see Xander/Dawn/Willow finding out about Spike's soul. The first was a lame villian...I mean if you fight the "source" of all badness in the world what's left? Caleb should have been introduced earlier in the season. The last episode felt rushed and Anya's death felt random and a "death for the sake of killing off someone" Also soulful spike became a little boring but his speech to Buffy was endearing.

[artiswar]

Hey guys, I've been eagerly waiting to post my thoughts on each season because I love reading everyone's thoughts, but it's hard for me to reserve a block of time for it. I've finished my thoughts on the first 7 seasons of Buffy, I'll post mine when I wrap up my thoughts on Angel. It's pretty lengthy so far, and I don't care if anyone bothers reading it, I just want to contribute here. It's pretty general, and I didn't recap almost anything that happens, it's just my thoughts, and yet it still managed to get rather lengthy. Oh well. I tried to be thorough.

[ligeia]

I can't wait to read this !

[artiswar]

I was beginning to wonder where this thread went.

Bump.